114 replies to this topic

[TLBFestus]

On game nights, my buddies and I usually have between 3 and 8 players.

We aren't Leet, we don't practice, we do do drink, smoke and have shites and giggles while playing.

4 man max in group stinks because if we have 5 or 6 the last guys to show up are left out of the male bonding experience.

Some days we win more than we lose and others, even with 8 players on one side, we still lose more than we win.

I prefer the comradeship and will trade it for the odd time that we get stomped anytime.

As was pointed out, if the group size gets restricted there will be sync dropping. Less effective, but not as bad as you might think due to the population size.

[RussianWolf]

Some of the better competitive 4-mans can wipe out 12 non-competitive players in less than 2 minutes.

Seen it happen during the lance challenge.

[Joseph Mallan]

Ghogiel, on 02 June 2015 - 08:22 AM, said:

The OP specifically states and I quote "Now that we have CW for the hard cores, can we not make the 12 man pub stomps a thing of the past? Why in the world do we not have 4 man maximum groups in the public group queue?"

He is talking about the group queue not the CW queue.

So he doesn't want groups in the group queue? Isn't that kinda, I don't know ...dumb?

[RussianWolf]

Summon3r, on 02 June 2015 - 08:35 AM, said:

its a good point about trying to kick back with 1 or 2 buddies for some small group fun and then getting roflstomped by large groups....... sad thing is player base is far to small to change a whole lot except maybe allow 2 man groups to drop in the solo que

and when 2 elite players decide to group up in the solo queue? bad idea.

[Abisha]

but it's perfectly fine if Pug get stomped the same way, then it's all just fun.. blah blah blah.

i hope they farmed you so hard you have trouble sitting. =)

[Ghogiel]

Mystere, on 02 June 2015 - 08:30 AM, said:

I thought that was obvious in my response as well.

When you replied to this thread

Quote

Why is CW only for big groups? it is a game mode for everyone and that means pugs too. I'm gettin tired of this, am I not allowed to play CW alone?

Quote

Solo are allowed to play. But aren't allowed to QQ about getting farmed by big groups.

with this

Mystere, on 01 June 2015 - 03:34 PM, said:

But non 12-man groups are allowed to?

There isn't much ambiguity that Non 12 man groups in CW is what is meant . I guess don't don't drink decaff.

[1453 R]

I love how the responses to everyone who's begging for some option, any option, to introduce new players to this game without having to go against league-playing ultracomp units every third drop is "LOL F'KIN SCRUB. GIT FRENS, GRWP UP, GIT GUD."

Let me tell you how this looks from the eyes of someone with a job,, actual friends, and more games than MWO installed on his machine.

First of all: there is no such thing as a casual unit in MWO. Stop calling us out on this because THEY DON'T EXIST. I know what a casual group looks like. A casual group is a chillax bunch of cool guys who just hang out when they're around and who don't toss your ass out on the streets because you went to play Witcher 3 for a few weeks instead of MWO all night erry night. They don't have Weekly Trainings, they don't have competitive tiers, they don't have any of that crap. They have members, who will hook up in whatever game they're playing when and as they collectively feel like it. No stress, no hassle, no expectations or Group Membership Failure Conditions. That is a casual group. This game doesn't have any.

Second of all: the LFG tool is f***ing garbage. The only time it gets use is an 8+ group hoping to fill out a last few members for a CW drop so they can try and cut queue times. If I wanted to hitch up with a bunch of random guys I've never seen before in my life to play Mechwarrior Online...oh, yeah! I'd drop in the public queue and just play with whoever else showed up! Like I always do! The LFG tool is utterly, breathtakingly pointless for anything save CW, which is fine because it was intended pretty much exclusively as a CW group facilitation tool. Coo'. That doesn't mean it solves the problem of me and new buddies fighting ultracomps every third drop in the shark tank.

Third of all: Community Warfare was, and is, tailored specifically for large groups. It was built from the ground up as a big-groups game mode because the people most vocal in clamoring for CW demanded it be so. It is a game mode which only allows solos or small groups because it has to; anyone who sets foot in CW needs to be prepared to fight a decked-out 12-man every. Single. Drop. Because that is what the mode was built for. Furthermore, CW players keep insisting - nastily and with great emphasis - that "stupid brainless pugs" keep out of their game mode so they stop having to carry harder. A'ight, will do! In return, give us a place to bring new guys, or a couple of casual buddies, where we don't have to drop against ultracomp scrimmage teams practicing for their next league match.

Fourth of all: the "just make an alt account and play that instead so you quit dragging your new guy's Elo up, you a**hole" thing is ********. So I have to give up my account I've spent hundreds of dollars and thousands of hours on, just throw all of that away, and insult the hell out of my friends (yes, I've specifically asked them. Everyone I've introduced to the game found the notion of me running an alt account, which is also against ToS, by the way, just to scrub it up with them while they learn extremely offensive)...just to have a weak chance of encountering ultracomp scrimmage groups less often? It's a well-known fact that Elo is a third or fourth thing the group queue looks for to match-make because the shark tank is constantly starved for players, and it also has to try (and inevitably fail) to match up both group sizes and 'Mech weight classes. Elo-based matchmaking is a rare luxury in the shark tank, not a reliable thing.

Are we getting the idea yet?

I, myself, will fight ultracomps with nothing more than a sigh and some gritted teeth. I don't really care - it sucks, yeah, but it's the price of doing business. That said, I've lost three friends' interest in MWO to the shark tank already, and the fourth is only sticking around because he had spare money for some Wave III goodies to look forward to and because he's Dark Souls-level masochistic and enjoys his games being violently, almost unfairly abusive to him. A couple of my buddies I have actively steered away from this game because they're of a more volatile temperament and I know for a fact that this game's horrifically awful treatment of new players would drive them into screaming fits followed by blood pressure problems followed by angry arguments over why I inflicted this kind of punishment on them.

How. Is. This. Okay? How can you people possibly believe this is an acceptable state of affairs?

[Mystere]

Ghogiel, on 02 June 2015 - 09:08 AM, said:

There isn't much ambiguity that Non 12 man groups in CW is what is meant . I guess don't don't drink decaff.

Oops! I guess that's what happens when I have had no coffee for days.

[Revis Volek]

Mystere, on 02 June 2015 - 10:05 AM, said:

Oops! I guess that's what happens when I have had no coffee for days.

You are a brave soul to go into the world like that....i commend you sir. Caffeine seems to prepare me for the sling and arrows of the day anymore!


We already had 4 man only groups...its sucked and PGI changed it.

NO.

Edited by DarthRevis, 02 June 2015 - 10:08 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Joseph Mallan, on 02 June 2015 - 02:08 AM, said:

The real problem with the MM is one side almost always loses! No matter how hard we try to make it so both sides win. PGI cannot fix this tragedy. Why does one team always have to lose. Can't you give them a participation trophy or something?

I guess it is those bad "Victory" vs "Defeat" end screens. Scrap them both and just use a new better version.

Now, Win or Lose we would all see "Well done MechWarrior. You have Participated proudly" Congratulations, please enjoy whatever C-Bills and XP you manged to generate.

[Jon Gotham]

1453 R, on 02 June 2015 - 09:42 AM, said:

First of all: there is no such thing as a casual unit in MWO. Stop calling us out on this because THEY DON'T EXIST. I know what a casual group looks like. A casual group is a chillax bunch of cool guys who just hang out when they're around and who don't toss your ass out on the streets because you went to play Witcher 3 for a few weeks instead of MWO all night erry night. They don't have Weekly Trainings, they don't have competitive tiers, they don't have any of that crap. They have members, who will hook up in whatever game they're playing when and as they collectively feel like it. No stress, no hassle, no expectations or Group Membership Failure Conditions. That is a casual group. This game doesn't have any.

Utterly incorrect. That sounds very much like the unit I'm currently in. It's why I'm in that unit. The breed of player that is also getting hurt besides the pro solo guys IS the casual grouper. If you don't want to talk to others that's fine, if you don't want to teamwork that's also fine.
But please people, get off the blind "it's all the premade's fault" horse. Group players are not all the evil tryhards you make them out to be, most us are like you with an added urge to be more social and band with others. Just because you refuse to do that-don't keep on stabbing us with the blamestick.

[Almond Brown]

RussianWolf, on 02 June 2015 - 08:40 AM, said:

Some of the better competitive 4-mans can wipe out 12 non-competitive players in less than 2 minutes.

Seen it happen during the lance challenge.

And guess what would be screamed across the Forums if any 2-man sync'd with another known 2-man in Pug land? The same thing screamed as before Teams were banned from Pugland.

Edited by Almond Brown, 02 June 2015 - 11:33 AM.

[RussianWolf]

kamiko kross, on 02 June 2015 - 11:07 AM, said:

Utterly incorrect. That sounds very much like the unit I'm currently in. It's why I'm in that unit. The breed of player that is also getting hurt besides the pro solo guys IS the casual grouper. If you don't want to talk to others that's fine, if you don't want to teamwork that's also fine.
But please people, get off the blind "it's all the premade's fault" horse. Group players are not all the evil tryhards you make them out to be, most us are like you with an added urge to be more social and band with others. Just because you refuse to do that-don't keep on stabbing us with the blamestick.

agreed. CEF is all inclusive also. They have a Comp Team and a CW team if that's your thing, but I am strictly Casual and they make no demands that I change. I drop Solo sometimes and sometimes in the Group queue (with anywhere from 1 other member to a full 12 man (though that's fairly rare) if the hankering takes me (I don't do CW though, not my thing at least until major changes are made to encourage diversity in mech builds instead of just ERLL, ERPPC, and Gauss that I find boring).

[Lugh]

Almond Brown, on 02 June 2015 - 11:00 AM, said:

I guess it is those bad "Victory" vs "Defeat" end screens. Scrap them both and just use a new better version.

Now, Win or Lose we would all see "Well done MechWarrior. You have Participated proudly" Congratulations, please enjoy whatever C-Bills and XP you manged to generate.

Well done mechwarrior. Despite your valiant efforts the pugies let you down. rest easy knowing that the colonists on the way will now die as they come planetside because you didn't cut the mustard against House Draconis. Have a valium. Unplug for a while you need the rest.

[Yokaiko]

Almond Brown, on 02 June 2015 - 11:23 AM, said:

And guess what would be screamed across the Forums if any 2-man sync'd with another known 2-man in Pug land? The same thing screamed as before Teams were banned from Pugland.

They screamed for a good long while afterwards.

[Namicus]

Looks like good discussion so far (minus the condescending crap from mostly jade falcon)

To clarify, I wasn't naming and shaming by mentioning Sean Lang. My point was that when I'm matched up against his caliber of play, something is borked. No disrespect meant.

I haven't played CW at all so can't speak to it other than saying the main reason I don't play it is because Russ said right up front that it was meant for the coordinated groups and that solos should be prepared for being stomped (paraphrasing). I wasn't prepared to put myself through that considering how much I can't stand it already in group queue.

I have literally tried to get well over half a dozen friends to play. All of whom said "no way" after getting repeatedly rolled by groups of 8-10 well coordinated opponents as they tried to learn the game. Something has to be done, or I seriously think the player base will dwindle, and new people coming in will be pretty much non-existent. I'd hate for the game to go under, but it seems likely the way things are now.

Edited by Namicus, 02 June 2015 - 12:00 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

RussianWolf, on 02 June 2015 - 08:40 AM, said:

Some of the better competitive 4-mans can wipe out 12 non-competitive players in less than 2 minutes.

Seen it happen during the lance challenge.

Yeah, Ive seen one locust kill the 8 guys left on the enemy team after our side got murdered on Caustic but it doesnt happen often

[Namicus]

TWIAFU, on 02 June 2015 - 03:55 AM, said:

The New MM also allows for group sizes larger than 4. Yes, you will be able to create groups in sizes 2-10 and 12. How this works is that players that choose to continue to play in groups of 2-4 will either be placed into the “Solo Public Queue” or the “Group Queue”. Players choosing to play in groups of 5-10 or 12 will ALWAYS be placed into the “Group Queue”. While matches in this Group Queue are always formed of players in groups only, groups of 2-4 will appear in both queues. Players in the solo queue are ensured that there will be only one 2-4 sized premade per side. In the case of 12-person group, this means a positive change in that they no longer need to just hope another 12-person group happens to be searching. In the case where you launch with a 12-person group, the MM will first look to see if there is another 12-person group to match up against, if there is great, if not it will piece together 12 from the rest of the group queue for you to fight against.



And I am so sick and tired of people complaining about things they have no understanding of. And since we have had this for a year, what do you want to complain about next?

I'm only speaking to the group queue. Not the CW queue, which is pretty clear if you re-read my first post.

[XphR]

Just to be clear, I am a Mercenary under contract. My 'condescending crap' is in no way related to my current alignment with Clan Nuclear Pidgin.

Learning the basics is best done first in the training grounds followed by in private matches with small groups of people. After that learning positioning comes from trial by fire. Groups of mismatched solo opponents will still have people attempting to cooperate with one another to utterly destroy your team. May of these attempts will be successful, even more so against new players.

[Jon Gotham]

RussianWolf, on 02 June 2015 - 11:24 AM, said:

agreed. CEF is all inclusive also. They have a Comp Team and a CW team if that's your thing, but I am strictly Casual and they make no demands that I change. I drop Solo sometimes and sometimes in the Group queue (with anywhere from 1 other member to a full 12 man (though that's fairly rare) if the hankering takes me (I don't do CW though, not my thing at least until major changes are made to encourage diversity in mech builds instead of just ERLL, ERPPC, and Gauss that I find boring).

Aye I wish more of the anti group guys would see us in our actual light, not some kind of roving band of "tryhards" because most of us really aren't!
Our group drops are "bring what you want to" with 0 pressure to do anything you don't want. the only must do is work together lol.
In fact on several occasions now I've invited some of the vocal anti groupers to come play with my guys and see for themselves, told them they were very welcome on our ts server-they don't have to join the unit only be polite. You know what? out of all the ragers I asked...ZERO of them took me up on my offer.
How are peeps gonna learn any different if they are not even willing to try?