25 replies to this topic

[Bigga Moonpye]

Its time for a CW Mech/salvage economy.

Mechs used in CW should be built from a players salvage inventory, filling in the gaps with c-bill bought components. Components and mechs destroyed in combat are lost.

We would need have saved builds that could easily be assembled from all the components and mech in your inventory that you have salvaged or bought.

instead of trial mech in CW you should get a deck from your faction. (Kurita would have something like dragon, banshee, centurion, panther)
if you drop in a faction/trial mech you get less salvage

Planets factor in to the economy too.
Planets have economy buffs, If your faction owns it, you get the buff, reducing the cost of a component, an AC 20 for example, or the acquisition cost of specific chassis.
That gives us a reason to fight over a planet.

Price of mechs will help balance the game, not solely having to rely on quirks to solve balance problems.

This is classic battletech!

Bigga Moonpye

Edited by Bigga Moonpye, 02 June 2015 - 06:30 AM.

[happy mech]

it would be great to have diferent decks based on faction, if the mechs are equally useful

[BoloJoe]

Hopefully this is planned for Stage 3 development.

But first we need to be able to choose our own attack lanes (maybe with the new 4-man scout drops?).

Not every planet need to grant buffs, have selected planets (highlighted like the regional capitals - i.e. St. Ives, Benjamin) throughout the Inner Sphere. It will feel more like a campaign if you need to fight through a few other systems to reach a high value target. Taking these special systems can also become an event lasting a weekend or week - give all time zones the opportunity to win the planet.

What CW needs is rewards and goals to make it interesting for players.

[ProfessorD]

Doing this properly would require a full economy overhaul that introduces a new, separate currency specific to CW.

This would fit very well with a campaign system. There are a lot of ways that meaningful sequences of engagements could be assembled into campaigns, many of which could be fully integrated into the semi-open-map system currently used for CW. Certain implementations of a campaign system might involve their own distinct currency pool and salvage pool.

If we want economics to in any way serve as a balancing tool or a part of campaign / CW mechanics, it is CRITICAL that the currency and resources used in that campaign economy be SEPARATE FROM THE GRIND!

Edited by ProfessorD, 02 June 2015 - 10:51 AM.

[happy mech]

ProfessorD, on 02 June 2015 - 10:51 AM, said:

Doing this properly would require a full economy overhaul that introduces a new, separate currency specific to CW.

This would fit very well with a campaign system. There are a lot of ways that meaningful sequences of engagements could be assembled into campaigns, many of which could be fully integrated into the semi-open-map system currently used for CW. Certain implementations of a campaign system might involve their own distinct currency pool and salvage pool.

If we want economics to in any way serve as a balancing tool or a part of campaign / CW mechanics, it is CRITICAL that the currency and resources used in that campaign economy be SEPARATE FROM THE GRIND!

exactly this

[Saiphas Cain]

While I absolutely love the idea of a salvage economy, my biggest concern would be balancing it, and how far removed it would need to be from Bettletech proper. Back in the pre-release days for MWO, based on WoT experience I remember asking how exactly everyone wouldn't end up disposessed?
The actual payout for mercenary contracts is in Battletech far lower than your standard repair and replacement costs primarily because if they approached reasonable rates the houses wouldn't hire mercenaries, they'd do it themselves. Mercenaries are often not fighting other battlemech armed forces otherwise the attrition would destroy the stocks of even the most successful mercenaries in short order.

Battlemechs are like national infrastructure in a way. When you have a serious war rolling through, like the kind of stuff you see in every match in MWO, if you lost material you wouldn't recover very easily. It would be a lot like EVE Online. Losing a King Crab would sting for weeks.

[happy mech]

i did write some general suggestions for cw mechanics here http://mwomercs.com/...logistics-idea/
will try to expand on this

[Vellron2005]

Bigga Moonpye, on 02 June 2015 - 06:18 AM, said:

Components and mechs destroyed in combat are lost.

This would resoult in good high-damage players and units dominating the game and the average players / small units fighting for scraps... so... NO.

BoloJoe, on 02 June 2015 - 10:07 AM, said:

Not every planet need to grant buffs, have selected planets (highlighted like the regional capitals - i.e. St. Ives, Benjamin) throughout the Inner Sphere. It will feel more like a campaign if you need to fight through a few other systems to reach a high value target.

What CW needs is rewards and goals to make it interesting for players.

Great idea... make some planets "high value" to make factions fight over them. Would bring immersion and a sence of reward.

ProfessorD, on 02 June 2015 - 10:51 AM, said:

Doing this properly would require a full economy overhaul that introduces a new, separate currency specific to CW.

This would fit very well with a campaign system. There are a lot of ways that meaningful sequences of engagements could be assembled into campaigns, many of which could be fully integrated into the semi-open-map system currently used for CW. Certain implementations of a campaign system might involve their own distinct currency pool and salvage pool.

If we want economics to in any way serve as a balancing tool or a part of campaign / CW mechanics, it is CRITICAL that the currency and resources used in that campaign economy be SEPARATE FROM THE GRIND!

A mmo co-op campaign-like system would fit well with CW.

my ideas as far as CW economy goes are that:

1) We need some sort of economy
2) We need reasons to attack and hold planets
3) These reasons must have in-game benefit to factions, units and individual players
4) A black-market would be nice
5) As part of a black-market, allow switching of mechs and equipment between game accounts and players. (not with banned accounts)

[Bigga Moonpye]

Vellron2005, on 03 June 2015 - 02:04 AM, said:

This would resoult in good high-damage players and units dominating the game and the average players / small units fighting for scraps... so... NO.

This should only apply to CW inventory. Salvage would not be the only way to replace lost gear, Your faction and planets owned by the faction (not the unit) would grant you cheeper replacment components. Units could only dominate if they all were in the same faction.. and i don't see that happening. But it is a BIG gamer way to play, and classic to battletech. Any one who plays Eve knows how that "real loss" makes the game way more exciting and has retained its player base for years. But I also see your point "real loss" is not for every gamer.

[Mecrutio]

As an EVE vet I can attest that yes losing that shiny new battleship can sting like hell and makes everything in the game way more intense and exciting due to the risks involved but in EVE if you're smart you can retreat and save your ship. You can't retreat in MWO currently, a match is more or less to the death. Now if this proposed mechanic affected only CW inventory (an idea I fully support) and planets gave a set amount of income to the units of the faction that held them along with other bonuses then it would be an amazing feature and add depth to the matches. It wouldn't just be "take the objective" or "kill them all" it would be "take out that King Crab to deny them tonnage in future battles" similar to mechwarrior 2. Really PGI should steal as many ideas from MW2 as they can...after all the online of MW2 was amazing and in-depth. Units and planets only had so much tonnage they could deploy and it really added depth and strategy to the game.

[BoloJoe]

Step 1: Let the Factions choose their own attack lanes. Having Clans attack lanes towards Terra will always create bottlenecks cutting off some Clans. Some Great Houses might want to get back strategic systems.

Step 2: Have selected planets designated as Target Systems (I.e. regional capitals - St. Ives, manufacturing centers or locations of Star League facilities - Galtor III). This would give an economic boost (loyalty pts, c-bills, components, salvage costs, etc) to the faction when taken, not just the Unit that had the most wins. There is plenty of Battltech lore to help with this. Give a reason for capturing a planet - getting your unit name just isn't incentive enough.

Step 3: Introduce more map/game mode variety (reducing the boring factor). Counter-attack was a step in the right direction but how about some maps without gates. How about a King-Of-The-Hill mode where a strategic location needs to be captured but without the restrictions of defined attack lanes.

Edited by BoloJoe, 13 June 2015 - 11:00 AM.

[boxbox]

Did anyone else play MW1 for PC? One thing I thought brought a lot of depth to the game was the market didn't have all the mechs all the time. So you would save up for a few missions to buy that Jagermech that you always wanted but then you would go back to the market and it would be gone, sold to someone else. So you had to wait until another came along or concede and buy an alternate...

[Will9761]

Also there should be some sort of Factory Raid game mode to where if you capture a factory from another faction, the new mech gets added to your faction dropdeck. For example if you are a Davion pilot who captures a Kurita factory of Dragons, now it will appear in your dropdeck until another faction or the previous owner retakes it.

[Thumper3]

Double edged sword, yes there really does need to be damage costs AND salvage rewards in the game, but implementing that will be tricky. First, as ProfessorD stated, this economic system must be separate from the normal que economics. no one should be able to go out and grind up mech parts and chassis in solo/group and bring that into CW. If that is allowed it is instantly broken.

Setting up conditions where you lose access to a mech in CW, and yet can still pilot it in solo/group will have some overhead. In a way, they will have to clone each player account server side and designate one solo/group and one CW and then track forward the damage taken in CW and adjust that garage accordingly. It should be easy enough to simply access the CW garage when setting your drop deck and have it list destroyed/disabled mechs as INVALID or DESTROYED/DAMAGED.

The main issue I can see is that with these economies separated how do you build out a CW mech with captured tech or equipment when that equipment is locked out of your garage? So now we need two totally separate hanger's as well. Again, doable, just put in a radio button to switch between CW and Solo/Group hanger's. But again, this is all coding, a slight redesign of the mechlab, and some programming.

That's a lot to count on PGI to get done and introduces a lot of issues for errors.

The much easier solution is to NOT separate economies, NOT divide the CW coffers from the grind. Instead, extend the salvage economy into the entire game, all ques, all game types. No guts, no glory right....you gonna take that precious Timber out in the solo que to grind up cbills and salvage, you gotta risk it.

Clearly, the cbill economy will need to be fixed first as with the current anemic payouts repair/rearm would be catastrophic.

This is much preferable as I would much rather see PGI dedicate their time and staff to making planets mean something and picking up the entirety of CW and not trying to develop and maintain two completely separate economies.

[3CLIPZ3]

this would make MWO just like EVE but without all the time wasted, love it. Being an ex-EVE pilot myself, I can say there is alot of time invested just to get into some action, even time invested with no action in return. This is why I left EVE.

Edited by 3CLIPZ3, 04 August 2015 - 01:47 AM.

[RapierE01]

May be not that you loose your Mechs but that they are locked for may be 5 Hours of CW.

[PraetorGix]

So, sooo NOT THIS. How can you people even begin to imagine anyone outside uber pro teams would like to play CW? This is utterly lame.

[zolop]

CW phase 3 will be interesting to see how the plan to flesh out the competitive / team based players and CW is for people wanted an extended world into battletech, with repair and rearm. The developers stated this themselves I think too. Though the CW Economy should be entirely seperate so that the players stilll have the public que option (mechs auto-repair and rearm instantly after match).

The arcade / CoD / limited choice players (hate to put a label on people, but can't think of a constructive way to describe their personality) still have the public que option, so I don't see what a big problem it is to have a repair/rearm cycle in MWO CW. A salvage system in CW would be awesome, with random chance to get high value mech parts (Read Rarities).

Edited by zolop, 06 November 2015 - 08:28 AM.

[BoloJoe]

You would not always be facing a meta-deck thus making gameplay a lot more interesting.

If you just want to play meta you still got the public queue, Faction Play should be something different and unique.

[Twopenny]

As stated by others above, Solo Queue would have to have a separate economy to CW (as an aside, would this not massively devalue MC?).

In terms of mechanics, I think that Mechs/Equipment etc that are damaged should have a "repair time" associated and/or repair cost. This could be affected by Faction loyalty. To use the example from above, Kurita should have a significantly lower cooldown/repair cost on Dragons for example. So if a Dragon is captured by a clanner, they could use it but damage would take a lot longer to repair. Likewise for Kurita players, Dragons would be a lot cheaper to purchase/upgrade than for non Kurita.

Mercenaries working for a faction should also get a boost to cooldown/cost but not as strong and only when they are working for the faction.

I personally love the idea of a Black Market ala previous MW games, especially if the mechs available are from the pool of mechs you have been fighting (with appropriate damages). Including camo patterns etc.

Also it annoys me that Merc Groups can hop around factions so easily and over such large distances! There should be a relationship between who the Merc Group has fought against in the past. I.e. penalties or less lucrative contracts.

Likewise players who are loyal to a faction should have reductions in costs associated.

But as stated above, the immersion and sense of an ongoing adventure would be lost unless we have new playmodes like convoy escort, search and destroy and possibly PvE