129 replies to this topic

[Revis Volek]

Rebas Kradd, on 03 June 2015 - 09:51 AM, said:

Except you never once HAVE to pay to get those mechs. They all become available for completely free.

Since it's possible for PGI not to make a single cent off those gift-store-only chassis, I don't see it as P2W.

Right?

Just because they are in the Gift Store doesn't mean PGI ever made a cent off of them....nor does it all of a sudden become P2W because real money is involved. That not how a Pay to Win advantage works.

Op reminds me of a 15 or 16 year old who is finally seeing thei way of the world, yea lots of people are scammers, yea the internet is a scary place, yea Governments and Corporations do some shady ****....but where does PGI fit in with any of that?

They are a small company, based in Canada with mouths to feed, rent to pay, servers to keep running and a whole list of others cost that seem unbelievable to a small business owner ( i know first hand because i am one). Why dont you do some research on OTHER games and then come tell me how this one is P2W....i think you will find it is not.

Edited by DarthRevis, 03 June 2015 - 11:58 AM.

[Marauder3D]

"You aren't paranoid if they really are out to get you."


On a side note, I think you'd find a more sympathetic audience if you could avoid the ad hominem attacks and present more evidence for your arguments.

[mogs01gt]

Marauder3D, on 03 June 2015 - 12:08 PM, said:

"You aren't paranoid if they really are out to get you."
On a side note, I think you'd find a more sympathetic audience if you could avoid the ad hominem attacks and present more evidence for your arguments.

His argument would have been accurate if he focused on Hero mechs. But not all Hero mechs have the better layouts.

[Mar-X-maN]

I bought the Resistance 2 Package and Wave 3 just because I approved of the high number of challenges related to packaged mechs lately. I also approve of the slow but steady release of maps. I was very impressed how they started to openly address
cheating. And there is GM Patience who does a great job of addressing my concerns.

There is no pay to win in this game. There is little to be gained from spending money. There is always a good chance that
your purchase gets nerfed.

But I do not care for having the best mechs. I want to have a selection of mechs that will allow me to participate in
every aspect this game has to offer. I want to earn **** and make my mechs pretty and intersting to play.
I want the Mechwarrior and Battletech franchise to be around a little while longer. It has a long rocky history but
it still made it this far. I want it to make it even further. That is why I support it as best as I can.

[DaZur]

Nice... Can't find a sympathetic ear so OP takes his toys and goes home

[Xetelian]

Pay to play early not win.

I thought it odd that the CTF 0XP had such a slew of better quirks than the 3D, the 1X and the 2X.

[Flak Kannon]

the wr3ck:


You have really sullied your limited reputation here. You really have not reinforced a single point. I fear this one is a loss on your W/L ration in the forums.

I own the said mech. I do as poorly in that mech as I do in ALL my Grasshoppers. It's an average Inner Sphere Chassis. It is not even CLOSE to Pay To Win.

The internets 1: the wr3ck 0

Insults never help somebody win an argument, it only makes them look more foolish by the way....

And lastly... go ahead and thank those that DO pay for packs, as they allow 'you' experience this game. If we didn't pay, you couldn't play.

[InspectorG]

cSand, on 02 June 2015 - 04:12 PM, said:

your never ending stream of extreme victories

Trademark that comment.

DaZur, on 03 June 2015 - 03:47 PM, said:

Nice... Can't find a sympathetic ear so OP takes his toys and goes home

What any respectable forum warrior would do.

[Hades Trooper]

the wr3ck, on 02 June 2015 - 04:07 PM, said:

It's the only one with complete extra armor on all parts and also has the best laser quirks with 10 percent less laser duration.

Telll me when was the last time u customized a mech and didn't remove everything and then max the armour?

IDK about grasshoppers and i honestly don't really care. but i can assure you this version your talking about 100% has to have a small pay load to have that 100% armour.

Look at the hellbringer, is packs even the kitchen sink but 1st thing u do is remove it all and max it's armour considering it's using i guess like 50% at stock load out.

So while i do agree in the essence of your OP but the issues your raising are off.

the high mounted shoulder hard points on the timber are exactly right with what your saying in it's behind a pay wall.

And before any douche bag tries to cry nerf. omg how long did it go without one? are you too dumb to notice how the nerf happened when they had finally been made for c-bills?

PGI has a practise but it's not this wily plans they have but rather idioticary in that they do next to 0% in house testing, the devs have admitted there useless pilots or just plain bad. They come up with an idea thats awesome on paper. it sells great. they collect data.

by the time the mech due to be released for c-bills the devs have enough data to determine if there been on target or been too generous and when they nerf it it's just been out for c-bills.

So while the white knighters will say it's pay for early access, where in fact due to PGI incompentance it really is pay to win for a limited time till they nerf.

Thus to get these huge advantages and use them before they become nerfed u need to get it while it's behind the pay wall thus we have those who cry pay to win. which i can understand there pov.

[IraqiWalker]

Me the past 5 pages:

Spoiler

Look man, you're getting too angry, too worked up, and too insulting. You're not going to have anyone see your point of view with that approach. The point of the discussion is that this mech is not OP, not even slightly. Yes, it has armor, and structure quirks. The LCT-3V has better armor and structure quirks than it does ffs. It's got decent laser quirks (not the best). It's a lanky chassis that is all torso. That means it's REALLY hard NOT to core it in the CT. It's arms are also crappy shields, and can't block 90% of incoming fire.

Widowmaker1981, on 03 June 2015 - 05:57 AM, said:

do you somehow have special mechs that shoot weapons out of the sides or something? never seen a mech shoot me that wasnt facing me at the time...


(yes, there are edge cases where the torso traverse is at its max and you have lower arm actuators, so can shoot to slightly off center, but those are edge cases and you never aim for them, since a slight miscalculation means that you cant track your weapon to the enemy, and it doesnt give any kind of advantage since its only slightly off center and they can still hit all 3 torsi)

Have you piloted ANY mechs with arms? Here's a tip: Next time you're piloting a mech with arms, hold down the left CTRL key, and move your mouse. Most of my arm using mechs can shoot almost 90 degrees to either side, simply because I can move the arms. Makes torso twisting a real dance.

In fact, back when Centurions were tankier, there was a known shield charge tactic on the YLW, that I've had the privilege of seeing in action. Your twist your torso to the right so your shield arm is facing towards where your enemies are. Use the Left CTRL key to position the shield so it protects your canon arm. Charge forward, pop the canon from behind the shield, open fire, and hide it again. It takes a LOT of skill and coordination to do it right, but it's really a sight to behold.

[Hades Trooper]

IraqiWalker, on 03 June 2015 - 08:55 PM, said:

Me the past 5 pages:

Spoiler

Look man, you're getting too angry, too worked up, and too insulting. You're not going to have anyone see your point of view with that approach. The point of the discussion is that this mech is not OP, not even slightly. Yes, it has armor, and structure quirks. The LCT-3V has better armor and structure quirks than it does ffs. It's got decent laser quirks (not the best). It's a lanky chassis that is all torso. That means it's REALLY hard NOT to core it in the CT. It's arms are also crappy shields, and can't block 90% of incoming fire.



Have you piloted ANY mechs with arms? Here's a tip: Next time you're piloting a mech with arms, hold down the left CTRL key, and move your mouse. Most of my arm using mechs can shoot almost 90 degrees to either side, simply because I can move the arms. Makes torso twisting a real dance.

In fact, back when Centurions were tankier, there was a known shield charge tactic on the YLW, that I've had the privilege of seeing in action. Your twist your torso to the right so your shield arm is facing towards where your enemies are. Use the Left CTRL key to position the shield so it protects your canon arm. Charge forward, pop the canon from behind the shield, open fire, and hide it again. It takes a LOT of skill and coordination to do it right, but it's really a sight to behold.

Ah come on m8, no response for me?

[IraqiWalker]

Hades Trooper, on 03 June 2015 - 09:21 PM, said:

Ah come on m8, no response for me?

I understand a lot of what you said, and don't have much to argue about.

I can see problems of this model, such as temporary P2W arguments, but I still think it's better than the alternative, and considering the game mechanics, and how it plays, I still don't think it's P2W. It can be perceived, and argued that away, but I don't think so.

I think m experience is colored by dealing with games that have actual P2W. Even when the clans debuted, and were rolling IS mechs, I never called them P2W. Sure, some were OP, but they were not P2W. Not when my Orion can still cave their cockpits in.

So it can be argued as a matter of perspective, but in my opinion, it's not even close to P2W.

Actually, re-reading your post, I have one point of contention. I wouldn't call it "PGI incompetence" that their internal testing is weak. It's a lack of resources. Between all of them, I highly doubt they can get a 1000 matches per mech before the pack is released. Even if they did. The first 3 hours after a pack hits the field, will guarantee several thousand more matches, easily.

EDIT: Also, Hi Hades! Been a while.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 03 June 2015 - 10:11 PM.

[Duke Nedo]

Actually quite entertaining thread!

I bought myself 2 hoppers yesterday and saving cbills for the 5P. This is an option open to every single one of us, just dooo it. I don't expect the 5P to be OP, but I expect it to be different from the others which is worth waiting for. That's an important factor for an all E chassi when you must buy 3 of them...

[Hades Trooper]

IraqiWalker, on 03 June 2015 - 10:09 PM, said:

I understand a lot of what you said, and don't have much to argue about.

I can see problems of this model, such as temporary P2W arguments, but I still think it's better than the alternative, and considering the game mechanics, and how it plays, I still don't think it's P2W. It can be perceived, and argued that away, but I don't think so.

I think m experience is colored by dealing with games that have actual P2W. Even when the clans debuted, and were rolling IS mechs, I never called them P2W. Sure, some were OP, but they were not P2W. Not when my Orion can still cave their cockpits in.

So it can be argued as a matter of perspective, but in my opinion, it's not even close to P2W.

Actually, re-reading your post, I have one point of contention. I wouldn't call it "PGI incompetence" that their internal testing is weak. It's a lack of resources. Between all of them, I highly doubt they can get a 1000 matches per mech before the pack is released. Even if they did. The first 3 hours after a pack hits the field, will guarantee several thousand more matches, easily.

EDIT: Also, Hi Hades! Been a while.

\Yeah i pretty much agree with what u said.

I should clarify, in mwo the early access while under tested and released as OP mechs to then get nerfed once or shortly after they become for c-bills is what is called pay to win in this game.

And lets be realistic, i call it pay to early access, but like when the clans where 1st released there where OP which caused the cries of pay2win.

Now amy i being a cynic or the nerf of the doom crow and timber god just happen to line up with the release of the new clan heavy mech now with the same high hard points lik the timber god?

The cynic in me says that's PGI's pay2win scheme, thanks for all your cash but it's too good, we shall nerf but hey there's this new shiny mech coming that could be even more OP that what the timber god was and now it's nerfed you know u really want the new shiny.

Please tell me i'm a cynic and this really isn't PGI doing. An if it's not, can they flarkin next time realise this and do it different or there is gonna be always cries of pay2win.

An just for those out there, I'm a Summoner man, those timber suck, i refuse to be a sheep, i will drive the mechs i like and they will NOT have meta builds.

[IraqiWalker]

Hades Trooper, on 03 June 2015 - 10:22 PM, said:

\Yeah i pretty much agree with what u said.

I should clarify, in mwo the early access while under tested and released as OP mechs to then get nerfed once or shortly after they become for c-bills is what is called pay to win in this game.

And lets be realistic, i call it pay to early access, but like when the clans where 1st released there where OP which caused the cries of pay2win.

Now amy i being a cynic or the nerf of the doom crow and timber god just happen to line up with the release of the new clan heavy mech now with the same high hard points lik the timber god?

The cynic in me says that's PGI's pay2win scheme, thanks for all your cash but it's too good, we shall nerf but hey there's this new shiny mech coming that could be even more OP that what the timber god was and now it's nerfed you know u really want the new shiny.

Please tell me i'm a cynic and this really isn't PGI doing. An if it's not, can they flarkin next time realise this and do it different or there is gonna be always cries of pay2win.

An just for those out there, I'm a Summoner man, those timber suck, i refuse to be a sheep, i will drive the mechs i like and they will NOT have meta builds.

I love you man , and I really want to tell you that you are being cynical. I can't 100% say it though. There is at least one part in me that thinks like that.

[Duke Nedo]

Ehum, which mech did they actually nerf when it was released for cbills? I've heard some say all clam mechs were, but to be honest, wave 1 was allowed to roam free for a loong time before they were toned down a bit, to the level they should have been at when released.

In this case at least I don't think it was that much on purpose. If that was a cynic cash-grab-release-nerf thing, they faked balancing cluelessness really really well...

[IraqiWalker]

Duke Nedo, on 03 June 2015 - 10:27 PM, said:

If that was a cynic cash-grab-release-nerf thing, they faked balancing cluelessness really really well...

[PaeuxP22]

Errr been reading all the above. Very exciting it's been too. There are 4 mechs in the pack, each of those has now got 4 variants. 1 of each being (currently) only available to people who pay money. One of the variants for each mech has to be the "best" there is a 1/4 chance that any mech picked per chassis is the best, and with 4 chassis there ought to be by averages alone one of the new variants that is better than the other variants of its chassis.

Oh look. One of the new variants for one of the chassis is better than the others. Who would have thought.

I personally don't think that's too ridiculous. It would be great if there was no money ever involved in the game at all but there is and as such there will always be times that stuff you buy will be better. It has to happen sometimes.

Now whether it happens more than random chance would suggest then that's an individual call, I suspect there is an element of that yes but it's not (to me anyway) particularly outrageous if only as you might only be able to buy the best variant of a chassis occasionally but I've never seen the game ever reach a point where you can only buy the best mech.

[Hades Trooper]

Duke Nedo, on 03 June 2015 - 10:27 PM, said:

Ehum, which mech did they actually nerf when it was released for cbills? I've heard some say all clam mechs were, but to be honest, wave 1 was allowed to roam free for a loong time before they were toned down a bit, to the level they should have been at when released.

In this case at least I don't think it was that much on purpose. If that was a cynic cash-grab-release-nerf thing, they faked balancing cluelessness really really well...

You really need to get up to date.

all clan weapons where hit with a massive nerf after the release had been out for a while so people who had fenced could jump into the action.

2nd the clan mechs are how they should have been on release? sweet so now u can loss all those OP quirks IS mechs have then.

3rd. the big talk of nerf doom crow and timber god has nothing to do now there sold all the units they realisitic could and made money, time to nerf and bring out the next OP mechs that lack balance and thus PGI has a model of selling something OP knowing they will nerf it, people will whinge and they can fix that by bringing out yet more mechs that haven't been tested throughly, released OP for $$$$ months or weeks later once there for in game space bucks well we better tone these down now.

So then people say to themselves i gotta get in on the next OPness at release so time to fork over $$$.

Thats PGI business model, anyone who thinks it just time to balance and such really needs to lay off the Kool Aid and smell shitte thats being pumped out.

So back to the OP he kinda right, the intitial release of mechs are OP and are behind a pay wall to start with, thus i can understand his cries of pay2win. As by the time there so anyone can buy them, there nerfed back to normal stance thus those who did pay $$$$ did get an advanatge thus the pay2win label is valid in my eyes

[Duke Nedo]

Hades Trooper, on 03 June 2015 - 11:47 PM, said:

You really need to get up to date.

all clan weapons where hit with a massive nerf after the release had been out for a while so people who had fenced could jump into the action.

2nd the clan mechs are how they should have been on release? sweet so now u can loss all those OP quirks IS mechs have then.

3rd. the big talk of nerf doom crow and timber god has nothing to do now there sold all the units they realisitic could and made money, time to nerf and bring out the next OP mechs that lack balance and thus PGI has a model of selling something OP knowing they will nerf it, people will whinge and they can fix that by bringing out yet more mechs that haven't been tested throughly, released OP for $$$$ months or weeks later once there for in game space bucks well we better tone these down now.

So then people say to themselves i gotta get in on the next OPness at release so time to fork over $$$.

Thats PGI business model, anyone who thinks it just time to balance and such really needs to lay off the Kool Aid and smell shitte thats being pumped out.

So back to the OP he kinda right, the intitial release of mechs are OP and are behind a pay wall to start with, thus i can understand his cries of pay2win. As by the time there so anyone can buy them, there nerfed back to normal stance thus those who did pay $$$$ did get an advanatge thus the pay2win label is valid in my eyes

Clans roamed free in total OP-ness for a long time, you're funny. I was there, I played them, I enjoyed them, and they were silly OP when they launched. I am pretty sure that the clan mechs nerf was delayed for a long time on purpose because they were afraid to nerf things that people just payed cash for. It was obvious from day 1 that the clan/IS balance was completely broken. So you simply can't use Clans launch as an example of cash-scam. No way. They even went with quirking IS as a means to balance things up before finally caving in to nerf TBR/SCR. It was a fail-launch of clans though, that is certain.

2nd. If you think TBR/SCR are now broken you need to play better.

3rd. None of the top dogs are currently behind a pay wall. None.

4th. If wave 3 is released as clearly OP, then PGI has done another fail launch. If they do that on purpose, then I'll agree they are scamming us. They should know better by now.