142 replies to this topic

[Moldur]

Escef, on 08 June 2015 - 11:03 AM, said:

If they are "spamming" them than they are discouraging people from death balling, or at least punishing them for doing so. I don't see this incidence of ***-for-tat as being bad.

They could do that with their mechs if they spent time actually piloting them.

[Nightmare1]

Escef, on 08 June 2015 - 11:03 AM, said:

If they are "spamming" them than they are discouraging people from death balling, or at least punishing them for doing so. I don't see this incidence of ***-for-tat as being bad.

Got to agree with Escef on this one.

Also, I've been noticing that a lot of people don't use their consumables even though they are equipped. There's been several matches this weekend alone where I have to prompt people with something like, "Someone pop a UAV now!"

I really don't see this mystic spam.

[Escef]

Moldur, on 08 June 2015 - 11:11 AM, said:

They could do that with their mechs if they spent time actually piloting them.

At this point there is no way you can continue this argument without insulting yourself.

[Lugh]

LordBraxton, on 06 June 2015 - 09:32 AM, said:

yeah because spamming an instant cast beacon that calls in AOE magic missiles after a couple seconds is ******* harcore tactical simulation elements man.

Consumables are dumb as hell, the way they function is stupid, and the way they are purchased and equipped is imbalanced.

There should be NO ADVANTAGES that do not cost CRITICAL SLOTS OR TONNAGE.

The whole module system is grind padding ******** that widens the gap between new players, and us vets who drive them away playing to PGIs terrible systems.

Consumables are open to you almost immediately everyone can use them.

Doesn't mean they know how and are also willing to spend to do it... but there it is...

(PPS. It's also a coddling crutch for those that cannot do without something else to do: see potion warriors online ala world of warcraft and other MMO titles for evidence).

[Carrioncrows]

Escef, on 08 June 2015 - 10:42 AM, said:

Conversely, nothing of value would be gained.

Fun. Fun would be gained.

Nightmare1, on 08 June 2015 - 10:21 AM, said:

I've never seen 48 strikes in a match. In fact, that's not even possible. The most you could field is 24. I question how recently you've played; your post uses dated information. Even back when you could equip two strikes to a Mech, I never saw 24. I barely see six these days even. UAVs and Cool Shots are a better investment now.

48 strikes (Air / Arty) is the maximum that can be used in a match.

12 Per team - 24 total Arty Strikes
12 per team - 24 total Airstrikes
48 total.

You are down to 24 if it's clan v clan and upwards of 36 if it's IS vs clan.

A typical match I see upwards of 12-18 air / arty strikes being used in a general Pug game. Those are just the ones I "See" I am not so arrogant that I assume that something doesn't exist if I don't see it.

Almond Brown, on 08 June 2015 - 10:53 AM, said:

If you are getting hit by 48 arty/air strikes in a MWO Match, I would change Teams... and soon dude. LOL!

This guy gets the kindergarten award for reading. Where pray tell did I say I was getting hit by 48 arty/air strikes?

In any given engagement there is only 2-3 cover spots. It is no mystery where people are and where they stack up.

This is by design.

The map creators themselves intentionally created "Paths," that force players on to them and punishes people who stop off them. Punishment is in the form of zero practical cover that is at the mercy of 12 other mechs on the other team, not to mention indirect fire if you don't have ECM.



It's no mystery where people are and are not. There is nothing new under the sun. There are no "New Angles" to surprise the enemy on these maps. So unless you want a losing position people flock to the same cover spots to shoot while they can.

And thus Arty-war online is born.

[Moldur]

Escef, on 08 June 2015 - 11:15 AM, said:

At this point there is no way you can continue this argument without insulting yourself.

Ok, you're right. You win. Mechwarrior is a lot better with artillery, airstrikes, and UAVs. If we could remove mechs altogether, that would make it a truly great game. I've been really two faced this whole time. I actually get most of my kills from panic arty :^)

[AlphaToaster]

I think UAV, Arty, and Air are fine for the most part, but I think cool-shots need to go. Powering down should cool us off faster than it does, and cool-shots completely removed.

I'm also in favor of a complete heat scale rework so we just can't alpha all our weapons over and over. Many have suggested this, and I think it would promote a more active gameplay.

[Nightmare1]

Carrioncrows, on 08 June 2015 - 11:23 AM, said:

48 strikes (Air / Arty) is the maximum that can be used in a match.

12 Per team - 24 total Arty Strikes
12 per team - 24 total Airstrikes
48 total.

You are down to 24 if it's clan v clan and upwards of 36 if it's IS vs clan.

This proves you haven't played in a while. Strikes have been restriced to one per Mech for some time now. The most you could field in match, is 24 total (12 per team). PGI hardcapped the number you can equip at one per Mech, regardless of whether or not it's a Premium or Improved Strike.

Carrioncrows, on 08 June 2015 - 11:23 AM, said:

A typical match I see upwards of 12-18 air / arty strikes being used in a general Pug game. Those are just the ones I "See" I am not so arrogant that I assume that something doesn't exist if I don't see it.

I'm gonna have to call bull on that one. Even during weekend events like this past one, I only see, at max, six. That's on crazy busy map too and comes down to about three per side; hardly overpowering or pervasive. In most matches I see, on average, between two and four total. They just aren't spammed much any more since they were nerfed hard a while back.

[Carrioncrows]

Nightmare1, on 08 June 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

This proves you haven't played in a while. Strikes have been restriced to one per Mech for some time now. The most you could field in match, is 24 total (12 per team). PGI hardcapped the number you can equip at one per Mech, regardless of whether or not it's a Premium or Improved Strike.




I'm gonna have to call bull on that one. Even during weekend events like this past one, I only see, at max, six. That's on crazy busy map too and comes down to about three per side; hardly overpowering or pervasive. In most matches I see, on average, between two and four total. They just aren't spammed much any more since they were nerfed hard a while back.

Yes because if you didn't see, it didn't happen.

And you are right I missed that change to only 1 arty airstrike module per mech.

As you can tell, I do not use consumables.

Edited by Carrioncrows, 08 June 2015 - 11:45 AM.

[Nightmare1]

Carrioncrows, on 08 June 2015 - 11:41 AM, said:

Yes because if you didn't see, it didn't happen.

Conversely, that doesn't mean that it did.

What I have seen, from the Spectator's view, are a lot of unused strikes at time of death.

[Mystere]

Carrioncrows, on 08 June 2015 - 10:15 AM, said:

Sorry but not when 24 people in the game are dropping nothing but arty and airstrikes the entire length of the match. (Up to 48 arty+ airstrikes)

Ahem! You're only allowed 1 per match in the public queues. So I call BS.

Moldur, on 08 June 2015 - 10:41 AM, said:

If consumables were removed, nothing of value would be lost.

Escef, on 08 June 2015 - 10:42 AM, said:

Conversely, nothing of value would be gained.

Potential gameplay diversity will definitely be reduced, though.

[Nightmare1]

Mystere, on 08 June 2015 - 04:53 PM, said:

Ahem! You're only allowed 1 per match in the public queues. So I call BS.




Potential gameplay diversity will definitely be reduced, though.

Mystere has the idea.

[LordBraxton]

Lugh, on 08 June 2015 - 11:20 AM, said:

Consumables are open to you almost immediately everyone can use them.

Doesn't mean they know how and are also willing to spend to do it... but there it is...

(PPS. It's also a coddling crutch for those that cannot do without something else to do: see potion warriors online ala world of warcraft and other MMO titles for evidence).

You are making the same mistake everyone else is when you're considering this. It isnt the price, or the availability to new players, it's the concept at its roots.

Modules and Consumables are both equaly guilty. If it gives you an advantage, it needs a disadvantage. Everything trades weight\crits for something in battletech\mechwarrior.

Modules and consumables have no effect on your actual mech construction, they just give you free abilities or boosts in game.

Cbills and MC etc should never be considered as a balancing effect.

PGI needed a way to make cbill sinks that required 0 production cost. Modules and Consumables.

The fact that artillery does damage with no cost in slots or tonnage makes it the most egregious offender behind UAV wallhacks.

All modules are similarly ridiculous. Making my mech even better than the nubs' mechs with ~12 mil worth of modules.

Give arty and UAV to lights\mediums only. I know PGI won't remove them so this is all I can rally for.

Edited by LordBraxton, 08 June 2015 - 05:28 PM.

[Nightmare1]

LordBraxton, on 08 June 2015 - 05:27 PM, said:

You are making the same mistake everyone else is when you're considering this. It isnt the price, or the availability to new players, it's the concept at its roots.

Modules and Consumables are both equaly guilty. If it gives you an advantage, it needs a disadvantage. Everything trades weight\crits for something in battletech\mechwarrior.

Modules and consumables have no effect on your actual mech construction, they just give you free abilities or boosts in game.

Cbills and MC etc should never be considered as a balancing effect.

PGI needed a way to make cbill sinks that required 0 production cost. Modules and Consumables.

The fact that artillery does damage with no cost in slots or tonnage makes it the most egregious offender behind UAV wallhacks.

All modules are similarly ridiculous. Making my mech even better than the nubs' mechs with ~12 mil worth of modules.

Give arty and UAV to lights\mediums only. I know PGI won't remove them so this is all I can rally for.

Can't you simply let something be? Everyone has equal access. Not everything has to have significant negatives associated with it. Frankly, I think the Consumables are fine as they are. Pilot skill remains the primary driver of the matches.

[MechWarrior3671771]

Strikes have a learning curve for new players like me. No really.

At first you think they are cool, especially in a light with limited firepower. You use them ALL the time, even risk stupid attacks to get one off. But eventually you realize they are more troll weaps than anything else. And then you notice how much they eat into your cbill rewards. So you go to "no more consumables!" for a spell, then back to "okay, but only use them when you flank a murderball". I think that's why you see so many die with arty equipped but unused. They really aren't as OP as some are implying, and are a decent punishment for teams that cluster up.

"the most egregious offender behind UAV wallhacks."

Sorry but you lost me when you conflated UAVs with wallhacks.

Edited by Fenrisulvyn, 08 June 2015 - 05:32 PM.

[Nightmare1]

Fenrisulvyn, on 08 June 2015 - 05:31 PM, said:

Strikes have a learning curve for new players like me. No really.

At first you think they are cool, especially in a light with limited firepower. You use them ALL the time, even risk stupid attacks to get one off. But eventually you realize they are more troll weaps than anything else. And then you notice how much they eat into your cbill rewards. So you go to "no more consumables!" for a spell, then back to "okay, but only use them when you flank a murderball". I think that's why you see so many die with arty equipped but unused. They really aren't as OP as some are implying, and are a decent punishment for teams that cluster up.

"the most egregious offender behind UAV wallhacks."

Sorry but you lost me when you conflated UAVs with wallhacks.

This is another guy who has the right idea.

[KHETTI]

I'd like to see the smoke for Arty/Air strikes removed, and the necessity to have TAG to be able to use them.
Paint an area or target for a set period, with improved accuracy the longer you paint the target.

[Nightmare1]

KHETTI, on 08 June 2015 - 05:35 PM, said:

I'd like to see the smoke for Arty/Air strikes removed, and the necessity to have TAG to be able to use them.
Paint an area or target for a set period, with improved accuracy the longer you paint the target.

I'd be okay with that. Improved accuracy and less warning offset by increased exposure time to set the strike.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Consumables as designed are a horrible throwback to the IGP thoery of game design. They need to cost tonnage, crit slots, and hardpoints to be adequately balanced

Edited by Agent 0 Fortune, 08 June 2015 - 05:41 PM.

[Nightmare1]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 08 June 2015 - 05:37 PM, said:

Consumables as designed are a horrible throwback to the IGP thoery of game design. They need to cost tonnage, crit slots, and hardpoints to be adequately balanced

Neg, they're good as they stand and are better than consumables in a lot of other games.