142 replies to this topic

[Yokaiko]

Kevjack, on 07 June 2015 - 06:47 AM, said:

How often to you get 40k plus profits from a UAV? Never is the only answer.

No but keeping the enemy pinned under LRM fire makes it that much more likely that you win and THAT does pay out 40k most of the time.

[Mystere]

Nick86, on 07 June 2015 - 08:16 AM, said:

Half the problem we have is players not thinking, using the map, communicating, analysing evolving situations ...

You're talking about 99% of the MWO player base and 99.99% of the global gaming population (and I'm being generous here on both counts).

Nick86, on 07 June 2015 - 08:16 AM, said:

Damn, I'm in a foul mood! Apologies for being overly harsh!

There is no need.

Kenoshi, on 07 June 2015 - 08:39 AM, said:

Call me an a$$ but sometimes I'll purposely hang back at the base and jump on idiot lights that show up...Get a kill or two, then rejoin the party.

That's not being an ass. That's being smart.

masCh, on 07 June 2015 - 08:59 AM, said:

Artilleries : Make it cost more than a loss payout. If you used artilleries, you better make sure you win to recover the costs.

Them make them much stronger than they are now. Either 2-4x the damage per shell or 2-4x the number of shells.

[Herr Vorragend]

I've got 2 suggestions:

First one:
- uavs are accessible for all weightclasses
- some kind of light-arty OR light-airstrike for mediums
- current arty/airstrike for lights

Second one:
- remove all consumables and make uavs only accessible to lights

[Mystere]

Herr Vorragend, on 07 June 2015 - 12:30 PM, said:

Second one:
- remove all consumables ...

No. Tough luck for those who do not know how to use or counter them. They're probably the same people who insist on bringing only big flat and slow Mechs, the same people who do not like large maps because they move as slow as molasses.

[Juodas Varnas]

Mystere, on 07 June 2015 - 12:35 PM, said:

No. Tough luck for those who do not know how to use or counter them. They're probably the same people who insist on bringing only big flat and slow Mechs, the same people who do not like large maps because they move as slow as molasses.

Actually, as one of the people who absolutely ABHOR consumables (especially UAVs and coolant flush, WHICH IN BETA THEY SAID THEY'LL NEVER ******* ADD ), i call ******** on your generalization.

I don't use big, slow mechs. I prefer smaller, fast alternatives: Jenners - Lights, Centurions - Mediums, Quickdraws - Heavies (currently, i don't use any assault mechs, because i hate how slow they are). And i absolutely LOVE large maps, like Alpine peaks (just wish it didn't have that mountain, everybody likes to hump)

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 07 June 2015 - 12:40 PM.

[Mystere]

Juodas Varnas, on 07 June 2015 - 12:40 PM, said:

Actually, as one of the people who absolutely ABHOR consumables (especially UAVs and coolant flush, WHICH IN BETA THEY SAID THEY'LL NEVER ******* ADD ), i call ******** on your generalization.

I don't use big, slow mechs. I prefer smaller, fast alternatives: Jenners - Lights, Centurions - Mediums, Quickdraws - Heavies (currently, i don't use any assault mechs, because i hate how slow they are). And i absolutely LOVE large maps, like Alpine peaks (just wish it didn't have that mountain, everybody likes to hump)

So you're an exception, fine.

But if you check the history of the anti-strike threads, and the anti-big map ones, you'd realize that it's mostly from those who bring fatties.

[Herr Vorragend]

I pilot every weightclass. I think u didn't get my point. I want to have less arty/air AND push the notoriously low numbered lights.

Why I want less: not everyone is using them and there are several reasons from being new to the game to simply not liking the concept of arty/air in a mechsimulator.
I often had matches with no arty/air on my side and 8 on the other. Restricting arty/air to.light mechs would give them a special flavor and overall less "easymode-lameness" in a match

[Xmith]

Triordinant, on 07 June 2015 - 07:05 AM, said:

Just a reminder: consumables were NOT created to add tactical depth. They were created as a cbill sink to encourage players to buy MC.

Buy MC? No need for that. You can buy them with C-Bills too ya know.

[Herr Vorragend]

Xmith, on 07 June 2015 - 03:12 PM, said:

Buy MC? No need for that. You can buy them with C-Bills too ya know.

Yeah, but the best are for mc, ya know?

[Shatara]

Mystere, on 06 June 2015 - 07:46 PM, said:

It's called-combined arms. Learn it instead of crying on the forums.

Combined arms? Let me tell you about combined arms.

Combined arms is a fast hovertanks breaking through the lines to take out an enemy artillery park. Combined arms is air superiority fighters working with ground-based AAA to turn the battlespace into a deathtrap for enemy fighter-bombers. Combined arms is an infantry company dug into woods behind a minefield, and daring the enemy to approach. Combined arms is a VTOL squad providing vital information while nipping at the enemy's flanks.

Take a look at the unit lists in Megamek some time. It's got tanks, infantry, battlearmor, gunboats, VTOLs, conventional and aerospace fighters...this is combined arms.

Mechwarrior Online does not have combined arms.

Herr Vorragend, on 07 June 2015 - 03:31 PM, said:

Yeah, but the best are for mc, ya know?

The MC consumables are identical to the upgraded C-bill consumables, as far as I can see.

[Mystere]

Shatara, on 07 June 2015 - 04:49 PM, said:

Combined arms? Let me tell you about combined arms.

Combined arms is a fast hovertanks breaking through the lines to take out an enemy artillery park. Combined arms is air superiority fighters working with ground-based AAA to turn the battlespace into a deathtrap for enemy fighter-bombers. Combined arms is an infantry company dug into woods behind a minefield, and daring the enemy to approach. Combined arms is a VTOL squad providing vital information while nipping at the enemy's flanks.

Take a look at the unit lists in Megamek some time. It's got tanks, infantry, battlearmor, gunboats, VTOLs, conventional and aerospace fighters...this is combined arms.

Mechwarrior Online does not have combined arms.


The MC consumables are identical to the upgraded C-bill consumables, as far as I can see.

Are you telling me that the successful and coordinated use of ECM, UAVs, scouts, indirect fire, and direct fire is not considered combined arms?

[Shatara]

Pretty much. ECM is just equipment, and a UAV is just single-use equipment. Tactical assets, yes, but not separate arms.

You could probably argue that 'Mechs built for different roles (scouts, brawlers, snipers, LRMboats, etc) working together successfully could be considered a form of combined arms, but no more than a Stuart, Sherman, Hellcat, and Priest.

[Wildstreak]

happy mech, on 06 June 2015 - 08:41 AM, said:

i think game would be better without consumables, unless they are a major revenue for pgi

what you think?

Actually, this cannot be proven because other things have destroyed Roles and Builds and they have nothing to do with Consumable. Can't focus on one thing, gotta see the whole picture.

[Void Angel]

Juodas Varnas, on 07 June 2015 - 12:40 PM, said:

Actually, as one of the people who absolutely ABHOR consumables (especially UAVs and coolant flush, WHICH IN BETA THEY SAID THEY'LL NEVER ******* ADD ), i call ******** on your generalization.

I don't use big, slow mechs. I prefer smaller, fast alternatives: Jenners - Lights, Centurions - Mediums, Quickdraws - Heavies (currently, i don't use any assault mechs, because i hate how slow they are). And i absolutely LOVE large maps, like Alpine peaks (just wish it didn't have that mountain, everybody likes to hump)

Mystere, on 07 June 2015 - 12:53 PM, said:

So you're an exception, fine.

But if you check the history of the anti-strike threads, and the anti-big map ones, you'd realize that it's mostly from those who bring fatties.

Well, not quite. A lot of people do complain that there's not enough warning to get out of the strike, which is consistent with a slow 'mech - but others are avowed light and medium pilots. I strongly suspect that it's less piloting slow machines and more being the kind of people who really hate having to not stand in the fire. Having fire rain down from the sky to encourage them to move - once every ten seconds, so it's like a machinegun - breaks their game of Hidewarrior Online, where the goal is to be the last person on the team to expose himself to enemy fire, and whoever has the most armor when the enemy comes rolling over the walls to crush you wins!

I might be a little bitter today.

Herr Vorragend, on 07 June 2015 - 03:31 PM, said:

Yeah, but the best are for mc, ya know?

No, no they're not. The only thing MC consumables do is allow you a shortcut while you're getting the advanced unlocks. Once you've spent the GXP for advanced strike, UAV, and Coolshot consumables, they're exactly the same as the MC versions - in response to some very specific and extremely heated player feedback when they first came out.

[Void Angel]

LordBraxton, on 07 June 2015 - 05:08 AM, said:

I'll ignore the rest of your ego trip for form's sake. Since this is the only part that actually addressed my opinion(and reason for wasting time in this thread.) The rest was made me laugh, especially when you emphasized your vocabulary use with 'casual.' Arm-chair generals are so funny. Let me upset you some more with my bolded huge text for lulz.

Responding to your attacks is hardly an ego trip - but I'll still accept your ceding me all those points. In fact, since you've stopped even trying to rebut me, that means I win. Thank you for admitting defeat, even if you did once again try to distract me toward a subject which you have not supported and we were not discussing. /ignore

[DAYLEET]

happy mech, on 06 June 2015 - 08:41 AM, said:

i think game would be better without consumables

Yes.

happy mech, on 06 June 2015 - 08:41 AM, said:

unless they are a major revenue for pgi

HELL NO.

[Escef]

masCh, on 07 June 2015 - 08:59 AM, said:

Artilleries : Make it cost more than a loss payout. If you used artilleries, you better make sure you win to recover the costs.

Base payout for a loss is 30k c-bills, arty costs 40.

[Void Angel]

He's thinking of the average payout for a loss - unless you just get rofflecoptered right away, you usually have some kills, assists, or damage.

It's still a phenomenally bad idea; such a measuer is designed to restrict strike consumables so severely that their use would almost preclude c-bill gains entirely - just what we need with the c-bill economy being so poor.

[Triordinant]

Xmith, on 07 June 2015 - 03:12 PM, said:

Buy MC? No need for that. You can buy them with C-Bills too ya know.

The idea is you run out of cbills from using consumables all the time (in addition to buying /mechs, engines, weapons, etc.). At that point, they hope you use real money instead of finding a way to grind more cbills.

[Escef]

Triordinant, on 08 June 2015 - 07:24 AM, said:

The idea is you run out of cbills from using consumables all the time (in addition to buying /mechs, engines, weapons, etc.). At that point, they hope you use real money instead of finding a way to grind more cbills.

Ha! Not likely. Unless you are, of course, uncommonly bad.