83 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

El Bandito, on 06 June 2015 - 09:11 PM, said:

Then you probably loathe the quad UAC5 King Crab. Much better PPFLD, and better hitboxes than that of the Whale.

seriously find the Krab about as overrated as it gets, especially the uac5 one. If you stand still in the open they're vicious, but 20 PP-FLD a shot isn't that scary. I'll still take the 50 a whale can dish then drop in cover. And a 6 UAC5 Whale still does DPS better than your Krab

[Ultimax]

El Bandito, on 06 June 2015 - 09:02 PM, said:

More like:

.......Agility.+
......Speed.+
.......Armor.++++++
...Hitboxes.++
FirePower.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


The 19 ton of armor is much less durable when your CT can be easily hit from all frontal angles. Plus the damn hood.

That's the price you pay for playing a Dakka build. (I'm assuming, since you've posted about it frequently)

If you are going to face-stare people to death, you will eat more damage to your CT.



Play a build that doesn't require as much, consistent, face-time and it's very noticeable how much your CT "durability" improves.



As for the Crab it tends to have worse convergence, as all UACs must be put into the arms - unlike the DWF.

It has less DPS, and the pinpoint advantage is pretty minimal at 20 points - it's still a face-stare build, and the DWF pumps out more damage with more UACs and can actually take meaningful backup weapons.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 06 June 2015 - 09:35 PM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

IS OP? no, but the CLans sure as **** are not and never were as OP as everyone was clamoring....

The reason the Clan WR was so high initally cuz 1, they were new, so everyone was just stuck on the Novelty of them. 2, they were only for ALOT of real money, so typically, only veteran players and guilds bought them. As in, players with skill and ability. So, yeah, they will win more. IS have had millions of games per mech, so yeah, that WR is not going to change much at this point. Clans had just released, so with primarily skilled players in them, ofc they will have high ass WRs. Are the mechs and weapons OP? not really.

Then, when the next WR review came, the Clans were still mostly for MC only, so still, only vets or some clueless noobs with money would buy them, more people had a little time to play and learn them, so ofc the WR drops a little from test 1.

Now, idk what hte WR is sitting at now, but CLans are still more expensive and more optomized right out hte box, so if their WRs are still moderately high, it only makes sense. CLans are expensive as ****, so only a veteran player who has thousands of games will even have the $$ to guy one....

IS as a whole do in fact suck stock, they have a very high Optimization time and cost. 1.5m for DHS, 250K for armor and endo, Art, the like. Then toss in the fact most newbs play IS, yeah, their WR wont be near Clan WR. But does that mean Clan is OP? not hardly. Stick any average IS idiot in a Clan mech and you would watch the WRs be 30%.....

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 06 June 2015 - 09:39 PM.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

LordKnightFandragon, on 06 June 2015 - 09:39 PM, said:

IS OP? no, but the CLans sure as **** are not and never were as OP as everyone was clamoring....

The reason the Clan WR was so high initally cuz 1, they were new, so everyone was just stuck on the Novelty of them. 2, they were only for ALOT of real money, so typically, only veteran players and guilds bought them. As in, players with skill and ability. So, yeah, they will win more. IS have had millions of games per mech, so yeah, that WR is not going to change much at this point. Clans had just released, so with primarily skilled players in them, ofc they will have high ass WRs. Are the mechs and weapons OP? not really.

Then, when the next WR review came, the Clans were still mostly for MC only, so still, only vets or some clueless noobs with money would buy them, more people had a little time to play and learn them, so ofc the WR drops a little from test 1.

Now, idk what hte WR is sitting at now, but CLans are still more expensive and more optomized right out hte box, so if their WRs are still moderately high, it only makes sense. CLans are expensive as ****, so only a veteran player who has thousands of games will even have the $$ to guy one....

IS as a whole do in fact suck stock, they have a very high Optimization time and cost. 1.5m for DHS, 250K for armor and endo, Art, the like. Then toss in the fact most newbs play IS, yeah, their WR wont be near Clan WR. But does that mean Clan is OP? not hardly. Stick any average IS idiot in a Clan mech and you would watch the WRs be 30%.....

Everything you just said...

It was wrong...

[xe N on]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 June 2015 - 01:14 PM, said:

Not sure I agree 100%. No mech that is "balanced" get's fielded as heavily as the STK-4N is.

Bishop, I guess you refer to the situation in CW? In normal game modes (PUG queue) I rarely see 4Ns. And for competitive units in normal game modes, I really don't see any reason to field the 4N if favor of a Wubshee or KGC.

For CW you are completely right, However, you can't balance entirely on CW. CW favors very specific builds, especially long range pure energy builds. In addition, CW limits the amount of ton you can bring. This result in a narrow amount of mechs on both sides (Clan and IS) that have advantages over other in this game mode.

The Stalker 4N is all about energy and weights "only" 85 tons. In addition, its perfect suited for peek-a-boo. Therefore, it is one of the few chassis that is heavily buffed by CW - but it is not generally better then other mechs. It just fits well into the scenario CW is dictating.

The Direwolf is the counter example. In the hands of a skilled player with a supporting team, it can dish out devastating strikes, shredding an enemy in seconds. Nevertheless, you won't see many Direwolfs in CW (I haven't seen one until now). Simply because it doesn't fit well into the playstyle of CW (ammunition based, slow) and costs 100 ton of your drop weight.

You should consider it is not the mech that is too strong, but the game mode conditions that dictate the most successful mech builds.

Edited by xe N on, 06 June 2015 - 11:07 PM.

[Pjwned]

DjPush, on 06 June 2015 - 12:02 PM, said:

Hard to say. I don't really understand the quirks. It almost seems like a fallacy created by PGI to teach everyone a lesson. I feel like all the complaining that the community did with weapons/mech balance pre-clan, only hurt everyone in the long run. If all those complaints of pop-tarting, boating weapons, dual PPC/Gauss load outs and AC2 Jaegers had never been made, there would be no need for quirks. All those builds would have no problem against clan tech. There is a lesson to be learned here. Quit your f&%kin b&%tching.

Making both sides equally broken while 90% of the mechs in the game rot and are never used is not the proper way of fixing anything and it never will be.

Mystere, on 06 June 2015 - 12:30 PM, said:

As I have been saying for a long time, at least half of the problems in this game can be traced back to the player base.

Not really, PGI's incompetence causes far more problems than the player base could ever hope to dream of causing.

Quote

One word: AGENDA.

Inner Sphere mechs being OP does not exclude clan mechs from being OP you know.

[Spleenslitta]

I'll say it like this.
It seems most players think the Firestarter is the best light mech in the game and clan light mechs are the worst since they are so slow in comparison.
Even so my Kit Fox outperforms all my Firestarters in most categories except speed.
KDR, average damage per match.....the Kit Fox does it slightly better. i've had over 1000 matches in my Firestarters and more than half that in my Kit Foxes so the measuring is quite accurate.

Kit Fox does 10% higher average damage per match. Win/Loss is a draw.
KDR is 2.00 for the Kit Fox and 1.7 for the Firestarter.

I could not get the Ace of Spades title with any of my IS mechs and then i got it yesterday in my Kit Fox.
Granted the last kill was a shutdown mech with heavy damage, but all the others fought me with as hard as they could.
Although kills don't mean much in MWO due to how little it takes finish off a mech that's near death, but it's another small point in the Kit Foxs favor.

[bad arcade kitty]

Spleenslitta, on 06 June 2015 - 11:38 PM, said:

I'll say it like this.
It seems most players think the Firestarter is the best light mech in the game and clan light mechs are the worst since they are so slow in comparison.
Even so my Kit Fox outperforms all my Firestarters in most categories except speed.
KDR, average damage per match.....the Kit Fox does it slightly better. i've had over 1000 matches in my Firestarters and more than half that in my Kit Foxes so the measuring is quite accurate.

Kit Fox does 10% higher average damage per match. Win/Loss is a draw.
KDR is 2.00 for the Kit Fox and 1.7 for the Firestarter.

I could not get the Ace of Spades title with any of my IS mechs and then i got it yesterday in my Kit Fox.
Granted the last kill was a shutdown mech with heavy damage, but all the others fought me with as hard as they could.
Although kills don't mean much in MWO due to how little it takes finish off a mech that's near death, but it's another small point in the Kit Foxs favor.

you probably spend way more time playing your cute fox than your firestarter too :3

firestarter is less team dependent, you cannot easily run alone wrecking everybody on your way in kit fox but i saw people who did it in firestarters

[Xyuni]

Well..... I'd agree to this if my direwolf was not allowed to have jump jets, now that the DW-S have been released, The omnipod allowed my DW-Prime to equip JJs.... where's the IS equivalent of 100 ton jump jettable lumbering horror?

[LordKnightFandragon]

Xyuni, on 07 June 2015 - 01:29 AM, said:

Well..... I'd agree to this if my direwolf was not allowed to have jump jets, now that the DW-S have been released, The omnipod allowed my DW-Prime to equip JJs.... where's the IS equivalent of 100 ton jump jettable lumbering horror?

Didnt that used to be the Dragonslayer and the Highlander? Not 100t, but still...JJ assault.

I suppose there is no such thing as a JJ mech anymore anyway...

Do the DWF JJs actually lift it higher then 2.5 inches?

[Joseph Mallan]

I don't use any of the Mechs the OP mentioned.

[Tapdancing Kerensky]

Who cares about IS mechs anyway, we're getting Ebon Jaguars soon.

[bad arcade kitty]

DancingShade, on 07 June 2015 - 04:23 AM, said:

Who cares about IS mechs anyway, we're getting Ebon Jaguars soon.

but will they be as good as jagers and dragons 1n
leaving aside ecm kittyphracts

[Ultimax]

LordKnightFandragon, on 07 June 2015 - 02:06 AM, said:

Do the DWF JJs actually lift it higher then 2.5 inches?

Yes.

[Ovion]

I do rather well in my adders and kit foxes, let alone the 'broken' ones.
Yes, IS mechs do well too, but I think honestly, bar a few outliers, balance is pretty good overall.

[VirtualSmitty]

ezzquizo, on 06 June 2015 - 03:23 PM, said:

armor clan sucks DW and WHK

My thoughts exactly.

[Spleenslitta]

bad arcade kitty, on 07 June 2015 - 01:05 AM, said:

you probably spend way more time playing your cute fox than your firestarter too :3

firestarter is less team dependent, you cannot easily run alone wrecking everybody on your way in kit fox but i saw people who did it in firestarters

Actually i got 1091 matches with all my Firestarters combined and only 3 of those matches are after the FS got nerfed.
I think i have 800-900 with my Kit Foxes. It shows 5 Kit Fox variants but i got only 3....weird.

Here is another weird part. I go independent with both mechs...i always do. I go alone just like in my guide.
http://mwomercs.com/...-tactics-guide/
I just use my smarts to shoot without getting much return fire(if any at all).

[Fate 6]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 06 June 2015 - 11:57 AM, said:

No. They need to scrap quirks altogether, close the gaps in balance between the two tech bases, then they can quirk up the under performers.

Also, they need to decouple engine size from torso twist and turn speeds.

Ding ding ding!
Turn Speed and Torso Twist Speed should both be mech specific just like yaw angle and pitch angle are. No more of this crap where a stock Urbanmech with 360 degree twist takes an unholy amount of time to turn said 360 degrees - if it turned as fast as a Stormcrow it would actually be playable at stock speed.

[Xyuni]

Ultimatum X, on 07 June 2015 - 04:39 AM, said:

Yes.

It can do more than that, like not getting trapped in the canyon . Or hopping up a level in the mining collective instead of having to drive through choke points.

So yeah... JJs are still pretty useful, especially on a 100 ton slow mo, it saves you the time to walk through a Z curb on an extremely slow speed of 48kph.....that simple jump saves you 1 minute of walking , less walking means more pew pew and more dmg / kdr / win Ratio

Edited by Xyuni, 07 June 2015 - 08:45 AM.

[Gyrok]

Ultimatum X, on 07 June 2015 - 04:39 AM, said:

Yes.

Yep, about 3.5" is what I get out of all 3 DW JJs. Get some distance laterally though...maybe 10-12ish meters.