60 replies to this topic

[SamsungNinja]

They're the size of a fridge and get blown off way too easily.

I would like to see some armor quirks on the omnipods to encourage a really good 'mech to be a little more versatile.

Right now the MDD can't take much BS before its torsos pop and it explodes.

[Joseph Mallan]

[MeiSooHaityu]

I'll tell you what people have been telling me for years about the Catapult.

Its a long range indirect (CLRMs) mech and therefore is more fragile than a brawler or in your face damage dealer.

Keep your distance, lob missiles, profit! If you want to take it up close with streaks or SRMs, it's a gamble you might lose.

Hey, look at the bright side. At least your missiles aren't in the arms like a Catapult. Plus, you can pack a lot of LRMs, move quickly, and survive a side torso loss unlike a Catapult (which either has to decide on speed or durability).

I guess what I'm saying is you have a Clan Catapult, it should be treated similarly as one. There are far better choices for up close and personal.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 02 June 2015 - 03:02 AM.

[SamsungNinja]

MeiSooHaityu, on 02 June 2015 - 03:01 AM, said:

I'll tell you what people have been telling me for years about the Catapult.

Its a long range indirect (CLRMs) mech and therefore is more fragile than a brawler or in your face damage dealer.

Keep your distance, lob missiles, profit! If you want to take it up close with streaks or SRMs, it's a gamble you might lose.

Hey, look at the bright side. At least your missiles aren't in the arms like a Catapult. Plus, you can pack a lot of LRMs, move quickly, and survive a side torso loss unlike a Catapult (which either has to decide on speed or durability).

I guess what I'm saying is you have a Clan Catapult, it should be treated similarly as one. There are far better choices for up close and personal.

But but but... I just wanna run 5 MPLs and a huge TComp

I guess I'll just drop in a HBR like everyone else, then...

Edited by SamsungNinja, 02 June 2015 - 03:05 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

SamsungNinja, on 02 June 2015 - 03:04 AM, said:

But but but... I just wanna run 5 MPLs and a huge TComp

I guess I'll just drop in a HBR like everyone else, then...

I feel your pain. I had a brawling Catapult C1 in closed beta. Yes, a brawling C1...and it worked.

I ran 2 LLasers, 2 MLasers, 2 SRM4s+Art and it used to wreck. I even had a Splat/Streak Catapult A1 that was downright lethal.

Still, times change. Power creep set in, poptarts flourished, and TTK took a huge dip. Now an A1 gets it's ears blown off in seconds or it's CT cored in a couple alphas. Hey, it's a bummer when you can't use your mech you like quite the way you want to.

[LordBraxton]

All of my medium mechs feel like your side torsos. Size of a fridge and get blown away way too easily. Besides my scrow anyway. Point is, if the maddog needs buffs, then all mediums (minus the scrow), quickdraws, highlanders, victors, non 35 ton lights, and Id say the Atlas, all need buffs first, because id rank the maddog high above all of those in power level.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Quirks might help, but it isn't going to do as much to fix the underlying problem as an adjustment to hitbox proportions will.

I would rather see them fix the hitboxes, then apply armor/structure quirks very lightly.



Bring the CT hitboxes back around the nose a little bit, this will help alot in Twisting so players can put the damage a little more evenly across the 3 sections, Then see how it plays, and add structure bonuses as with any other mech.

I think something like this, that lines up better to the actual visual geometry will do much better.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

MeiSooHaityu, on 02 June 2015 - 03:01 AM, said:

I'll tell you what people have been telling me for years about the Catapult.

Its a long range indirect (CLRMs) mech and therefore is more fragile than a brawler or in your face damage dealer.

Keep your distance, lob missiles, profit! If you want to take it up close with streaks or SRMs, it's a gamble you might lose.

Hey, look at the bright side. At least your missiles aren't in the arms like a Catapult. Plus, you can pack a lot of LRMs, move quickly, and survive a side torso loss unlike a Catapult (which either has to decide on speed or durability).

I guess what I'm saying is you have a Clan Catapult, it should be treated similarly as one. There are far better choices for up close and personal.

Unfortunately for both, they just pale in comparison to the HBK-4J thanks to the requirement of TAG for running LRMs competently and the fact the highest mount the 4J is the TAG laser (excluding the insane quirks) is what makes it so perfect.

If the Mad Dog had a cockpit level TAG, it would actually be good with the lurm boating, but unfortunately that is not the case. The Catapult unfortunately for how it was designed, is not a LRM mech thanks to the ears that stick up far above the cockpit. It needs actual artillery like the Arrow IV or viability of the brawling Catapult to actually fulfill a role. Or the return of the good old trojan horse Catapult from the MW4 days where you ran only torso weapons and used the arms as a diversion for bad teams.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 02 June 2015 - 04:14 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

WM Quicksilver, on 02 June 2015 - 04:14 AM, said:

Unfortunately for both, they just pale in comparison to the HBK-4J thanks to the requirement of TAG for running LRMs competently and the fact the highest mount the 4J is the TAG laser (excluding the insane quirks) is what makes it so perfect.

If the Mad Dog had a cockpit level TAG, it would actually be good with the lurm boating, but unfortunately that is not the case. The Catapult unfortunately for how it was designed, is not a LRM mech thanks to the ears that stick up far above the cockpit. It needs actual artillery like the Arrow IV or viability of the brawling Catapult to actually fulfill a role. Or the return of the good old trojan horse Catapult from the MW4 days where you ran only torso weapons and used the arms as a diversion for bad teams.

The Hunch 4J is the PUG LRM mech, where as the Catapult and Mad Dog have to rely more on a team strategy with spotters.

Really the whole hitbox adjustment /quirk argument is opinion. I think of the design (at least initial intent) I'd to prevent an in your face clan streak boat from being too OP at short range.

Like I said, there was a time when a quick Cat A1 was the king of this. It spurred heat changes to streaks, pathing changes from CT focused streaks to spread out damage, and the changes to A1's ears resulting in being the size of small buildings.

It's my thinking that the Mad Dog (with the more heavily armored side torsos (vs arm armor), lower mounted hard points (not way up in the air, out in the open like a Cat's), and clan XL durability played a part in PGI making those side hitboxes a bit big. so that a bum rush Streak Dog wouldn't really be a thing.

So, now that leaves the Mad Dog as MORE of a LRM machine. That's a good role for it. Embrace it. Plus, you can always get a Doom Crow for your in-your-face streak death. For as bad as a Doom Crow is, it could be a lot worse in a Mad Dog without the hitboxes to counter balance that potential.

[Escef]

The real problem is the mech is 60 tons. And, TBH, I'd rather lose a side torso than the center torso.

[Cyborne Elemental]

At 60 tons, it should not be as fragile as it is.

Just way too much surface area given to those torso's.

[Revis Volek]

SamsungNinja, on 02 June 2015 - 02:46 AM, said:

They're the size of a fridge and get blown off way too easily.

I would like to see some armor quirks on the omnipods to encourage a really good 'mech to be a little more versatile.

Right now the MDD can't take much BS before its torsos pop and it explodes.

I'd also like to see this, Really cuts down on what the MDD can do. Being so fragile removes its brawler ability and all the missle bays tell me its that at heart!

Armor and internal structure buffs so i can run some SRM's and MPL!

Edited by DarthRevis, 02 June 2015 - 08:10 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

DarthRevis, on 02 June 2015 - 08:09 AM, said:

I'd also like to see this, Really cuts down on what the MDD can do. Being so fragile removes its brawler ability and all the missle bays tell me its that at heart!

Armor and internal structure buffs so i can run some SRM's and MPL!

Sure. I'd like a huge buff to Catapult CT armor and Internals too. I also feel that a Catapult is a brawler at heart. It is just waiting for the massive quirks to get it there.

[Revis Volek]

MeiSooHaityu, on 02 June 2015 - 04:52 AM, said:

The Hunch 4J is the PUG LRM mech, where as the Catapult and Mad Dog have to rely more on a team strategy with spotters.

Really the whole hitbox adjustment /quirk argument is opinion. I think of the design (at least initial intent) I'd to prevent an in your face clan streak boat from being too OP at short range.

Like I said, there was a time when a quick Cat A1 was the king of this. It spurred heat changes to streaks, pathing changes from CT focused streaks to spread out damage, and the changes to A1's ears resulting in being the size of small buildings.

It's my thinking that the Mad Dog (with the more heavily armored side torsos (vs arm armor), lower mounted hard points (not way up in the air, out in the open like a Cat's), and clan XL durability played a part in PGI making those side hitboxes a bit big. so that a bum rush Streak Dog wouldn't really be a thing.

So, now that leaves the Mad Dog as MORE of a LRM machine. That's a good role for it. Embrace it. Plus, you can always get a Doom Crow for your in-your-face streak death. For as bad as a Doom Crow is, it could be a lot worse in a Mad Dog without the hitboxes to counter balance that potential.

SCR cannot due SSRM 36, this will literally blow a FS9 up in one alpha if they hit right.....LRMS work on the MDD. I Like the 6x LRM5 for the constant LRM stream. CLRM's are junk though with a team decent enough to coordinate and bring some AMS.

[Cyborne Elemental]

I wonder if they'll ever consider extending or adjusting the arm weapons to make it look like the Classic Vulture, the only weapon that resembles the old artwork is when you put Gauss on it.

[0bsidion]

I've noticed the Mad Dog does seem oddly fragile as well, especially for a heavy. Not to mention it's arms are rather awkwardly placed, making it difficult sometimes to shoot over or around terrain and obstacles. All of this adds up to encourage you to fulfill it's table top role as LRM fire support.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

MeiSooHaityu, on 02 June 2015 - 04:52 AM, said:

The Hunch 4J is the PUG LRM mech, where as the Catapult and Mad Dog have to rely more on a team strategy with spotters.

Someone devoting themselves to spotting is worthless in comp matches. The 4J is the most competent LRM mech because it doesn't HAVE to rely on spotters and can shoot through ECM so long as there isn't an ECM within 180. That reliance is HUGE currently and is the reason the Catapult and Mad Dog aren't used for that role.

If you fix the ECM/LRM/SSRM behavior the Mad Dog may actually become a more viable LRM mech, but until then it is stuck being a glass cannon brawler just like the Catapult.

MeiSooHaityu, on 02 June 2015 - 04:52 AM, said:

So, now that leaves the Mad Dog as MORE of a LRM machine. That's a good role for it. Embrace it. Plus, you can always get a Doom Crow for your in-your-face streak death. For as bad as a Doom Crow is, it could be a lot worse in a Mad Dog without the hitboxes to counter balance that potential.

Mad Dog has always been a long range missile mech, especially in the days of MW4 where the no armor ATM60 Mad Dog was actually a thing. The problem is, relying on teammates to spot is a terrible liability to a team and using a TAG laser requires you to expose too much of yourself and ruins the single advantage of having the cockpit being as high as it is (much like the Hunch).

[Aiden Skye]

The main problem with the Mad dog is the fact that LRM's blow. (Yeah you can do SRM 36 but that doesn't make it any less squishy) It takes massive amount of LRM's to bring anything down. They don't do splash anymore and their damage has repeatedly been nerfed. This results in a lot of facetime if you want your tag and artemis to have an effect. And the Mad dog does not have the durability to be standing out in the open like that in this laser vomit hit scan meta. C-LRM's also stream which just doesn't feel as effective is bursts.

This is before the ridiculous amount of ECM out there. And there is only more ECM on the way. Not to mention everyone and their grandma runs radar dep. Never mind that LRM's are so easily countered. Lots of urban maps and cover.

The mad dog also has no quirks to help it out.

If the game had more defined roles, other than Boating, vomiting and brawling it would be a different story. There is no scouting, no spotting. No one is going to burn though ECM for you. It's all about the PP alpha. If we had ECM that wasn't functioning well beyond lore, active and passive sensors, less over the top quirks fueling an ever growing alpha meta 2nd line support mechs like the MDD would have more of a home.

And that my friend is the main problem with the Mad dog.

Edited by W A R K H A N, 02 June 2015 - 01:37 PM.

[Ace Selin]

The Mad Dog is my go to LRM/SRM/Streak platform in drops these days, it hands down beats any IS mech.
I never fail to get multiple kills in mine, dont know what the OP is talking about as my Mad Dog is immensely powerful.

[Cyborne Elemental]

I've had equally successful games using Gauss + PPC builds in my maddog.

A locust could be powerful with 6 LRM5, or 6 SRM 4's, hell, it would probably live longer too.

Maddog could be in a lot better place if it were more survivable.