88 replies to this topic

[Lyoto Machida]

reign, on 08 June 2015 - 10:48 AM, said:

The OP was talking about adding additional unseen/reseen mechs to a new type pheonix package to sell.

The remaining ones are all owned by HG

I completely understand what the OP is referring to and I'd pay big money for a pack with the Warhammer, Marauder, Archer, Crusader, etc...even reseen versions that Alex would re-do for MWO anyways. I'm familiar with the whole situation and have even posted Harmony Gold's address here in Los Angeles in the past for anyone that wants to go down there personally haha.

Alan Davion is the one that keeps bringing up the issue of the Phoenix pack resale that PGI polled the Phoenix users on and trying to somehow tie it to PGI not wanting to even deal with Harmony Gold on another potential Phoenix pack:

"Ask yourself this, if you were in control of PGI, and you saw the fallout over the attempt to bring back the first run of Phoenix mechs, would you then, in all honesty, try to bring in a 2nd wave of the Phoenix mechs with the level of forum fallout seen over the first wave looming over your head?"

I have no idea how the fallout over PGI's attempt to bring back the first run of Phoenix mechs has anything to do with Harmony Gold and unseen mechs, as they are two different issues altogether.

[Templar Dane]

After having spent around 600 bucks on this game, of the three mechs I'd pay money for again........the rifleman is at the top of that list.

[MechWarrior5152251]

x Marder x, on 08 June 2015 - 12:25 AM, said:

Or they give the other guys some money from every sold unit.

Its sit on your rights and have nothing or earn somthing.

That was the mistake that FASA made in the first place. If they liked a design they should have just hired an artist to make a similar. The reason Harmony Gold comes after any MW game is because FASA licensed their destroids. FASA executives were too naive to understand Trademark and Copyright Law. Taking out a license on something is a big risk and is only smart for very well established IP like Star Trek, Star Wars, Spongebob etc....

Without the license HG would have had to prove liklihood of confusion....

Of course Jager is "Rifleman" in German, so I wonder why HG doesn't sue over this....

Edited by MechWarrior5152251, 08 June 2015 - 11:39 AM.

[Lyoto Machida]

lordtzar, on 08 June 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

After having spent around 600 bucks on this game, of the three mechs I'd pay money for again........the rifleman is at the top of that list.

Well, you can make one with a Firebrand (more or less).

[Templar Dane]

Lyoto Machida, on 08 June 2015 - 11:39 AM, said:

Well, you can make one with a Firebrand (more or less).

Yeah my firebrand is a proxy, is why I bought it. But I would buy a rifleman if pgi released one.

Would also buy an axman but only if melee was also implemented.

[stjobe]

MechWarrior5152251, on 08 June 2015 - 11:37 AM, said:

The reason Harmony Gold comes after any MW game is because FASA licensed their destroids. FASA executives were too naive to understand Trademark and Copyright Law.

No, that's not right.

FASA licencesed the imagery of certain Macross mecha from the Japanese company that co-produced Macross, HG licensed Macross as a whole from the other Japanese company that co-produced Macross.

In a court case in Japan, it was later decided that the company FASA licensed the mecha imagery from didn't have rights to license that imagery overseas (i.e. to the US) any more, but rather that the company HG licensed it from had.

So FASA had to remove all the Macross imagery from their products.

It had nothing to do with FASA execs being naive; they licensed the artwork fair and square at the time, but later the situation changed.

MechWarrior5152251, on 08 June 2015 - 11:37 AM, said:

Without the license HG would have had to prove liklihood of confusion....

FASA never licensed anything from HG. HG currently own (albeit it is somewhat uncertain that they still have a claim) the overseas rights to Macross, and are actively denying anyone else use of the imagery, or for that matter a license or sub-license.

MechWarrior5152251, on 08 June 2015 - 11:37 AM, said:

Of course Jager is "Rifleman" in German, so I wonder why HG doesn't sue over this....

First off, "Jäger" means "hunter" in German.

Secondly, HG doesn't sue over the JagerMech because it's not sufficiently close visually to any Macross mecha.

Edited by stjobe, 08 June 2015 - 11:58 AM.

[Lugin]

FASA got permission from Studio Nue, the direct creators of Macross, for the designs.
What HG got was the international (outside Japan) distribution rights for Macross from Tatsunoko Productions.

Japanese courts have ruled that Studio Nue owns the Macross IP.

Conclusion: Sitting on money allows HG to be trolls.

[MechWarrior5152251]

stjobe, on 08 June 2015 - 11:49 AM, said:

No, that's not right.

FASA licencesed the imagery of certain Macross mecha from the Japanese company that co-produced Macross, HG licensed Macross as a whole from the other Japanese company that co-produced Macross.

In a court case in Japan, it was later decided that the company FASA licensed the mecha imagery from didn't have rights to license that imagery overseas (i.e. to the US) any more, but rather that the company HG licensed it from had.

So FASA had to remove all the Macross imagery from their products.

It had nothing to do with FASA execs being naive; they licensed the artwork fair and square at the time, but later the situation changed.


FASA never licensed anything from HG. HG currently own (albeit it is somewhat uncertain that they still have a claim) the overseas rights to Macross, and are actively denying anyone else use of the imagery, or for that matter a license or sub-license.


First off, "Jäger" means "hunter" in German.

Secondly, HG doesn't sue over the JagerMech because it's not sufficiently close visually to any Macross mecha.

Wow, your inability to understand relevance is truly shocking. It doesnt Effing matter if they licensed it from HG or the effing fairy god mother. The point is they license specific mechs leaving an evidentiary trail forever tainting those mechs for MWO.

And you need a better English/German dictionary, because Jager does translate to both Hunter and Rifleman...

Edited by MechWarrior5152251, 08 June 2015 - 12:10 PM.

[x Marder x]

MechWarrior5152251, on 08 June 2015 - 12:08 PM, said:

Wow, your inability to understand relevance is truly shocking. It doesnt Effing matter if they licensed it from HG or the effing fairy god mother. The point is they license specific mechs leaving an evidentiary trail forever tainting those mechs for MWO.

And you need a better English/German dictionary, because Jager does translate to both Hunter and Rifleman...

I am German and Jäger is hunter.
But we call our infantry branch in the BW Jäger which are man with rifles.

I dont know but never heard of that Jäger translates to rifleman.

Jäger=Hunter

[ScarecrowES]

There is some confusion here about who owns what. FASA / MS /PGI have access to all the mechs on paper. They do NOT have access to the original visual representation of those mechs if they are based on designs currently under license to HG. So PGI can still produce a M arauder. They CANNOT produce a Marauder that looks anything like the original Marauder visual design. They CAN use the current reseen visual design as a basis for any new 3D model as long as they continue to stay away from similarities to the original. HG has never had a problem with the reseen design of the Marauder, so there is no reason to believe they'd have a problem with PGI creating a design based on it.

Personally, I think that the original Marauder visual design is iconic... i had the original tabletop game and Battletech 3050 for the Genesis which featured it. But at aesthetically it doesnt find in with the coalesced designs. The reseen version does. Id happily take the reseen one if i had the choice.

[BigBenn]

I have faith that PGI could design a Warhammer far enough away from the Robotech version to stay away from infringement. The first thing they could do is to remove the spotlight altogether. Then round off the feet, shorten and raise up the PPC/arm weapon barrels, and take away the sharp points on the front side torsos and BAM!... a new Warhammer look that is far enough away from the Robotech original.

I didn't partake in any poll, jump on any bandwagon, or dive in to any debate on anything. I'm just hoping to see some legit "classics" grace the MWO world. The Warhammer -6R, 7A, and 8M would be good for starters.

[Ovion]

Come play TT, where you can have whatever you like. ;p

[Armored Yokai]

Somebody needs to add "The Bad Guys" on the Harmony Gold wikipedia page
or at least make an animation that involves the iconic mechs and unseen blowing up a Harmony Gold building of some sort

Edited by Armored Yokai, 08 June 2015 - 02:19 PM.

[Lyoto Machida]

Armored Yokai, on 08 June 2015 - 02:19 PM, said:

Somebody needs to add "The Bad Guys" on the Harmony Gold wikipedia page
or at least make an animation that involves the iconic mechs and unseen blowing up a Harmony Gold building of some sort

Have at it...

[Shatara]

Like this?

https://www.youtube....bed/RGjab76TJ3c

Edited by Shatara, 08 June 2015 - 04:30 PM.

[Armored Yokai]

Just what we need now all we need is a animator or photoshopper or video editor

[Ovion]

Shatara, on 08 June 2015 - 04:30 PM, said:

Like this?
https://www.youtube....bed/RGjab76TJ3c

Good old Megas XLR.

One more thing tied up in pointless legal issues that we'll probably never see again.
Which is a huge shame.

[Alex Morgaine]

x Marder x, on 08 June 2015 - 12:25 AM, said:

Or they give the other guys some money from every sold unit.

Its sit on your rights and have nothing or earn somthing.

The other guy from what I've read online would do it for piece of the pie... just something like 99% plus additional flat fees per unit sold or something. The organization in question is apparently... yeah....

And the salty few who don't want redesigns well... yeah.

[Karmen Baric]

If we could only get redesigns of the unseen mechs, i would be quite happy with that, though of course i would prefer the original designs to be implemented ......

[Stelar 7]

stjobe, on 08 June 2015 - 09:33 AM, said:

I'm one of the guys who love the old Unseen 'mechs; I started playing BattleTech with the 2nd edition boxed set (you know, the one with the Warhammer all over the front of the box). I look back at the Unseen designs with rose-tinted nostalgia and would love to one day be able to pilot them in a computer game.

Having said that though, I also wouldn't mind the Unseen after PGI (or rather Alex) has MWO-ized them. The original (Macross) designs wouldn't fit MWO's aesthetics anyway.

The question is, would that make them dissimilar enough that HG wouldn't sue? And is that a risk PGI is willing to take?

I'll take a Warhammer designed by Alex, or a Marauder designed by Alex - even though I'm a die-hard 2nd edition, TRO 3025, no freaking Clans in my BattleTech universe kind of guy.

I played them in 2nd ed, played them in MW 1 on an IBM XL. I would likely throw money at PGI to get the back.