88 replies to this topic

[HoundOfCullan]

Wow, I had never heard of this before. Obviously I had the original rules then, because I've got art and even lead miniatures of a bunch of the those iconic mechs (there is a little lead archer sitting right in front of me now).

[Stelar 7]

Those of us lucky enough to have been playing since the 80's and early 90's can have these things. I have a Rifleman, still in package, I picked up in 95 or 96 when I heard they could not make more.

[Alan Davion]

Lyoto Machida, on 08 June 2015 - 10:36 AM, said:

How about moving on and focusing your energy on something else that you can affect? Because in the end, those Phoenix mechs aren't getting resold...

You know, that's funny, because with all the crying, pissing and moaning that goes on on the forums, eventually PGI does something about it.

So, you know, you could do the same thing.

The problem is, most of the stuff that really needs complaining about already gets plenty of it, but the sad truth is, that sort of stuff will likely never get touched, i.e quirks, ECM... Basically all the broke-as-heck core game mechanics that people have been screaming about for years.

So, no, I'm not going to let this go.

Do you see anyone else letting go of the issues they bring up? Such as the aforementioned ECM mechanics and quirks.

[Kassatsu]

Didn't most of the 'unseen' mechs have a 'reseen' design that was legally okay?

Is there some reason they're not using those? Is it really so hard to just go and ask HG "Hey, we want to use these mechs you sued over in the past but have since been fixed, maybe have your legal dudes check these out and make sure they're ok"?

Admittedly the Marauder from MW2 was by far my favorite version (then again, the Nova from MW2 was and still is my favorite version too, so there's that), but if a total redesign (those MW2/unseen hitboxes would be hilarious) is what we need to get it in MWO, then so be it.

[Malleus011]

Every single Phoenix 'mech is available for C-Bills. The only thing that isn't are the unique 'mechs that came with the Phoenix pack. The 'no' vote hardly deprived the community of Griffins, Wolverines, Thunderbolts, or other 'mechs of that series. Most of them even have heroes available for purchase.

As for the 'elitists' who won't accept any other 'mech - that's supposition. Every one of my fellow grumpy old mechwarriors who have been playing this game since God was a boy that I've seen post an opinion would like Alex to take a crack at a complete redesign, if that means we could finally drive Warhammers, Archers, and Marauders.

There's no reason PGI couldn't do a complete redesign based loosely on the reseen chassis. It's the last big cash push this property has left ... I suspect we'll see 2-3 packs of these 'mechs later on.

[Kassatsu]

Malleus011, on 08 June 2015 - 07:09 PM, said:

Every single Phoenix 'mech is available for C-Bills. The only thing that isn't are the unique 'mechs that came with the Phoenix pack. The 'no' vote hardly deprived the community of Griffins, Wolverines, Thunderbolts, or other 'mechs of that series. Most of them even have heroes available for purchase.

As for the 'elitists' who won't accept any other 'mech - that's supposition. Every one of my fellow grumpy old mechwarriors who have been playing this game since God was a boy that I've seen post an opinion would like Alex to take a crack at a complete redesign, if that means we could finally drive Warhammers, Archers, and Marauders.

There's no reason PGI couldn't do a complete redesign based loosely on the reseen chassis. It's the last big cash push this property has left ... I suspect we'll see 2-3 packs of these 'mechs later on.

B-but... Muh 80-ton scout!

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

BigBenn, on 07 June 2015 - 07:10 PM, said:

Any word on when further mechs in the "unseen/reseen" category will be added? I'm not "in the know" on what mechs are still "off limits" per say due to the legal happenings, but regardless it seems odd to not have the Warhammer in game.

Thus far, we have the following "unseen/reseen" mechs in game:

Griffin, Shadow Hawk, Wolverine, Thunderbolt, Marauder, and Battlemaster

Yeah, I know the Clans could use an update and another wave or two of mechs, but the sooner we get the Warhammer, Marauder, Crusader, Phoenix Hawk, and a few other of the staples in game the happier this BattleTech old timer will be.

last time I asked they said "HG says no"

[CDLord HHGD]

BigBenn, on 08 June 2015 - 01:57 PM, said:

I have faith that PGI could design a Warhammer far enough away from the Robotech version to stay away from infringement. The first thing they could do is to remove the spotlight altogether. Then round off the feet, shorten and raise up the PPC/arm weapon barrels, and take away the sharp points on the front side torsos and BAM!... a new Warhammer look that is far enough away from the Robotech original.

I didn't partake in any poll, jump on any bandwagon, or dive in to any debate on anything. I'm just hoping to see some legit "classics" grace the MWO world. The Warhammer -6R, 7A, and 8M would be good for starters.

You mean like this?

[Lyoto Machida]

Alan Davion, on 08 June 2015 - 06:55 PM, said:

You know, that's funny, because with all the crying, pissing and moaning that goes on on the forums, eventually PGI does something about it.

So, you know, you could do the same thing.

The problem is, most of the stuff that really needs complaining about already gets plenty of it, but the sad truth is, that sort of stuff will likely never get touched, i.e quirks, ECM... Basically all the broke-as-heck core game mechanics that people have been screaming about for years.

So, no, I'm not going to let this go.

Do you see anyone else letting go of the issues they bring up? Such as the aforementioned ECM mechanics and quirks.

The difference here is that you can get your Griffins, Battlemasters, Shadow Hawks, etc for free. Nobody is stopping you from purchasing the Phoenix mechs. All you have to do is invest some time or money.

Feel free to keep complaining though. At least the people complaining about ECM or quirks have legitimate concerns.

[Dimento Graven]

Alan Davion, on 08 June 2015 - 09:38 AM, said:

Actually it is pretty much what you just said, people didn't want to 'share' the Phoenix mechs, or did you miss all the ranting and raving over 'exclusivity'?

Actually I think you were one of the people constantly tooting that horn.

Guess what, you've had your 'exclusivity' for 3 years, 3 F-ing years. You want me to grow up, well, guess what, you kind of need to do a little bit of that yourself.

Judging by your forum badge you have all the Phoenix mechs. Now, let me ask you something.

After you bought them, how long did it take you to elite and/or master them? And, after you reached elite/master, how often did you play those (P) mechs, or did you move on to other mechs until the Phoenix event?

Which was, what, oh, yeah, 3 years later.

Also, keep in mind that a majority of us Phoenix package owners did NOT base our purchase decision on the fact that they'd be exclusive to us. As of this thread, this is the first I remember hearing that they were supposed to be exclusive to the original purchasers, so at least from MY perspective, I don't care if PGI opens the package up for others.

I mean seriously it's stupid to be so 'dog in the manger' about this... There's so many more important things wrong with this game than to try maintain exclusivity on something you can't even hold in your hand...

[ScarecrowES]

cdlord, on 09 June 2015 - 07:16 AM, said:

You mean like this?

Sure... or something based off any of the totally legal reseen designs.

Are we aware that all of the Project Phoenix mechs we already have in-game were unseen, reseen for 3067, and then redesigned again for use in MWO under the current timeline? I'm not sure that people understand that HG has already accepted all the reseen Project Phoenix visual designs as being sufficiently different to avoid a lawsuit. If we can have MWO redesigns of the Thunderbolt or Griffin, why not Maruaders or Warhammers? There's no legal reason.

The Warhammer would need a lot of TLC and probably a total redesign, because to be honest the reseen version if fugly. Then again, none of the MWO Project Phoenix mechs looks much light their reseen counterparts anyway. The reseen Marauder looks like a more sleek, meaner Cataphract, which I'd say is a compliment. And hard to argue that the hardpoints are highly desirable (probably too desirable).

[stjobe]

ScarecrowES, on 09 June 2015 - 11:09 AM, said:

If we can have MWO redesigns of the Thunderbolt or Griffin, why not Maruaders or Warhammers? There's no legal reason.

The reason is that the Thunderbolt and Griffin designs were from Fang of the Sun: Dougram, not from Super Dimension Fortress Macross. It is only the Macross designs that are still off limits (due to HG being a bunch of litigious ********).

You are wholly correct in that the Project Phoenix Reseen designs are fine to use though; only problem is most of them are fugly as hell.

But, as I said in my first post in this thread, I'd take an Alex redesign of the Reseen designs; as someone else commented - if he could salvage the Kintaro, he can make the fugly Reseen designs work as well.

[reign]

Stelar 7, on 08 June 2015 - 06:46 PM, said:

Those of us lucky enough to have been playing since the 80's and early 90's can have these things. I have a Rifleman, still in package, I picked up in 95 or 96 when I heard they could not make more.

Yup Yup

Some Pheonix hawk Lams https://flic.kr/p/e1ampA

[Alan Davion]

ScarecrowES, on 09 June 2015 - 11:09 AM, said:

Sure... or something based off any of the totally legal reseen designs.

Are we aware that all of the Project Phoenix mechs we already have in-game were unseen, reseen for 3067, and then redesigned again for use in MWO under the current timeline? I'm not sure that people understand that HG has already accepted all the reseen Project Phoenix visual designs as being sufficiently different to avoid a lawsuit. If we can have MWO redesigns of the Thunderbolt or Griffin, why not Maruaders or Warhammers? There's no legal reason.

The Warhammer would need a lot of TLC and probably a total redesign, because to be honest the reseen version if fugly. Then again, none of the MWO Project Phoenix mechs looks much light their reseen counterparts anyway. The reseen Marauder looks like a more sleek, meaner Cataphract, which I'd say is a compliment. And hard to argue that the hardpoints are highly desirable (probably too desirable).

Pretty sure HG could come up with some reason. They've been the bane of BT/MW forever, why stop now?

Of the original Phoenix reseens, the Locust we have now looks more like the IIC version than the IS version... The IS Phoenix Locust is the most ugly.

The Griffins look stunningly similar to each other, i.e original unseen, reseen and MWO.

The Shadow Hawk we have now looks much closer to the original version than the reseen version.

The Wolverine we have now looks like it took elements from both the original and the reseen and made them better. The original looked the best. The reseen, eh, it's okay.

The same can be said for the Thunderbolt, took elements from both and made them better. Again, original looks better, reseen, eh, okay.

And finally, the same can be said for the Battlemaster, though in this case the MWO one resembles the reseen one more than the original. Especially the shoulders.

Of the ones we don't have, the Stinger, Wasp, Valkyrie, Ostscout, Phoenix Hawk, Ostroc and Ostsol look far enough removed from their original versions that they could probably work. The Ostscout, Ostroc and Ostsol can also be used in their original forms before they became unseen, though I doubt anyone would want to run an original Ostroc with only a single medium laser.

The Rifleman, Archer and Longbow, and maybe the Crusader are a bit iffy, since they still resemble their original unseen versions in certain aspects. The Crusader would probably be the easiest to fix in that regard... The others, would take a lot more work.

Finally, the Warhammer and Marauder/2 are the furthest removed from their original versions, and at the same time the most horrible abominations I've ever laid eyes on. It would take a miracle to make these things look appealing while still keeping them far enough removed from the original versions to avoid a suit.

After that it's down to the weapons and/or hardpoints, since several of these mechs are equipped with weapons not yet available, i.e the Rocket Launchers on the Stinger/Wasp and the Medium Range Missiles on the Crusader.

On the other hand, the loadouts of the original Stinger/Wasp/Valkyrie are frankly, horribly anemic. The loadouts of the Phoenix Hawk and Crusader are actually fairly decent I think. The Warhammer loadouts are good, while the original Archer loadout would requite its two rear-facing lasers be moved to the front.

That's it, that's all I can think of for now.

[ScarecrowES]

But again here, Alan... HG has already accepted ALL of the PF reseens, including the Warhammer and Marauder. And as you've pointed out, many of the features of the MWO versions of those reseen mechs actually resemble their original counterparts as much, if not more, than the reseen version. I can't see HG sitting on the sidelines as PGI, Fasa, MS et al make money off of other accepted reseen mech designs, and then suddenly care as soon as the words "Warhammer" or "Marauder" appear on a press release. I suppose I wouldn't put it past them though.

I fully expect PGI to eventually release these as a part of a Project Phoenix Wave 2 or some sort of celebration package. If the game makes it that far. Either way, once the in-game time hits 3067, HG doesn't have a leg to stand on. PGI could use the EXACT reseen designs and HG couldn't say a word because they already bought off on them.

[King Chimera]

I'd love to have a Phoenix Hawk, if PGI made some unseen mechs in the game they can probably get some more in a second Phoenix wave.

[Alan Davion]

Maybe it's just me, but I feel certain enough that HG would throw some kind of crap-fest if they saw Warhammer or Marauder in a PGI press release for Phoenix 2 that I'd actually put money on it.

The Locust and the other mechs were from completely different animes than the Warhammer was though, and that's the thing. PGI was able to make these original Phoenix mechs look a lot like their original versions because the source material was never brought state-side, so Fasa, and by extension, PGI, could do a lot with those mechs.

It's the Macross-derived mechs that are the real thorn in the foot of Fasa and/or PGI, they would have to be very careful in redesigning the originals, or redesigning the redesigns... Try saying that five times fast.

For me personally, the reseen Crusader is about the only one that I really like the look of. All the other Macross-based reseens go from okay, to meh, to downright hideous in the case of the Warhammer/Marauder.

[Tombstoner]

All PGI needs to do is release the hard points on a new skin and be done with it. This game is so far removed from lore its not funny..

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Meet the WHM -8k Warhammer...

Thinner, more sleak, and totally part of the Phoenix redesign phase from Catalyst, this overall "look" for the warhammer, is 100% legal for use.

The models are still being sold, and the redesigns are considered legal, THERE IS NO ISSUE IN MAKING THESE MECHS!

JUST DO IT ALREADY SO YOU CAN TAKE EVEN MORE OF MY MONEY!

[Maxx Blue]

Yep, I'd take reseens over nothing. Sure it would be nice if a rifleman could have a big garbage can lid on it's head, but if I have to choose between different mech headwear and not having a rifleman at all...well give that bad boy a tophat and lets game on.