133 replies to this topic

[Andi Nagasia]

Yeonne Greene, on 24 June 2015 - 08:17 PM, said:

You play the Arrow at all? Because I certainly engage a target face-to-face for 39 seconds.

Assuming he doesn't get rescued, it usually turns out okay.

If I do it with my STD200 AC/2 build, it always runs slightly too hot to really finish a target, even at the reduced rate of fire. If you increase the rate of fire without reducing the heat, the 'Mech won't even get off the same number of synchronized laser blasts, possibly resulting in a loss of damage dealt despite an increased maximum damage rate on paper. It'll be overly toasty.

The Arrow should make an excellent close-range, constant damage 'Mech. That's its calling. Like all Blackjacks, It has excellent speed and payload for the percentage of its mass spent on a standard engine, its cooling is typically just enough to run most builds adequately, and it has some pretty decent hit-boxes. But, the Arrow has a lot of ballistic hardpoints. If you dedicate them all to MGs, it's always undergunned. Best DPS you can get without a huge hit in durability or speed is with 2x MPL, 1x LPL, and 6x MG on a STD 225 engine. That puts you up at around 12. XL can get you to 14, but you are no longer durable. Small engine can do the same, but you lose out on ammo and speed. Twin AC/2 can get you past 13, but you are hot and short on ammo. Twin LAC/2 with a general heat reduction on 2-class ACs would fix the problem.

87.1 kph, 2x LAC/2 with 225 rounds, 4x MG with 4000 rounds, 3x Medium Laser, 286 points of armor. 13-15 DPS for ~30 seconds. That would be competitive with the Shadowcat in terms of firepower, a good place to be.

Perhaps, but i would rather see all AC2s cooldown decreased to 0.52(3.84DPS),
rather just a heat reduction, as Increasing the DPS will help you Get damage then back off,
for Example, if you can do 100Damage(50shots) in 36 seconds with your AC2s now,
then you could do that same Damage(100(50Shots) in 26 seconds with AC2s,
(going from 0.72 to 0.52 is -28%)(so 36 -28% is 26)(10 seconds less)

[Lord Creston]

All AC/2 needs is:

• 15% heat drop - 0.85 heat/shot. Down from 1.00 heat/shot
  
• 100% boost ammo per ton. 150 ammo/ton up from 75 ammo/ton.
  
• Slightly boosted crit chance.

[Y E O N N E]

Andi Nagasia, on 24 June 2015 - 08:50 PM, said:

Perhaps, but i would rather see all AC2s cooldown decreased to 0.52(3.84DPS),
rather just a heat reduction, as Increasing the DPS will help you Get damage then back off,
for Example, if you can do 100Damage(50shots) in 36 seconds with your AC2s now,
then you could do that same Damage(100(50Shots) in 26 seconds with AC2s,
(going from 0.72 to 0.52 is -28%)(so 36 -28% is 26)(10 seconds less)

But that's what the BJ-1 and BJ-1DC already have, and it only works because they also feature heat reductions. They produce 0.75 heat-per-shot. It's still slightly too hot, but it's massively improved over the full 1.0 heat-per-shot that you experience on most 'Mechs.

If they were dealing 0.6 heat-per-shot, pairing them with lasers would be far less painful and the build would be even better than it is now (though still not good enough to be considered game-breaking or meta). I could engage a target for about 4 seconds, rip off about 36 damage, and not be sitting around 85% heat.

[KodiakGW]

The problem I see with most of the suggestions is that they won't do it in fear of allowing AC2/UAC2 boats. A lot of them are good, and would make the weapon better.

The only one I would like to see happening is the reduction in weight. That is, unless the "It's not TRO" crowd won't let it. Then more lights and light mediums might start sporting them, and others could start using it as a suppression weapon in conjunction with their main loadout.

Baby steps. Drop them all 1 ton to give it a try and see what happens. Problem is, I know it is never going to happen because they would need to go back to all the stock loadouts and do something with the extra free ton(s).

[Zoid]

KodiakGW, on 25 June 2015 - 09:14 AM, said:

The problem I see with most of the suggestions is that they won't do it in fear of allowing AC2/UAC2 boats. A lot of them are good, and would make the weapon better.

I really don't see why that's a problem. Even a Crab or Dire with 6 of them isn't exactly a feared thing on the battlefield. You've got to stay exposed for a long time to do any decent amount of damage and that damage is all spread out in 12 point increments.

It just needs less heat. The HPS of an IS AC/2 isn't that far behind a large laser, which is kind of ridiculous. It would be a good support weapon in a lot of builds if it just wasn't so hot.

[mark v92]

guys.

what if they give it a cooldown of 1.00 but makes it shoot 2 shots per trigger pull.(1 shot on 0.00 and 1 shot on 0.50)
this could make the cooldown shorter per shot but doesnt bug out in engine as the weapon only cycles per 1sec.

up the ammo a bit since that automatic second shot might be lost more and half the heat.

might be wierd at first but its a dps weapon so if 1 of those 2 shots is lost it doesnt have a big impact anyway.

[Malckovich]

I have said it many times before and I will say it again. The AC 2 is an outlier weapon because of its slot to tonnage ratio. It is flat out awkward to build with. No other weapon is close to this level of awkward.

I am also well aware of the counter argument being that it would effect stock load outs, but at this point who cares? I would rather have a usable weapon. Throw a few extra heat sinks into those stock load outs.

2 slots, 4 tons. Make it so. Just imagine the possibilities.

[Tombstoner]

The point of the ac-2 was an extreme range sniper weapon. PGI botched the TT to FPS port. Damage and heat where not scaled with rate of fire. The approach they used was reckless and clearly not scientific. hence the results. The ac-2 received a 1920% increase in damage potential. once you mount 4 your doing 16 damage every cycle to one spot. the best armor in the game is striped in 4 seconds. such is the power of convergence. a 50 done mech is dead in <4 seconds and people wonder why it was nerfed.....o but you have to spend so much in tonnage. Dead or striped CT in 4 seconds is worth it. what about torso twisting.... seriously all that does is give you more time on the CT better yet here have a side torso with a max armor set for a 2D6 RNG roll.....

PGI doesn't know how to fix because they can't see what they did wrong.....

[Andi Nagasia]

so the Consenscess to Make AC2s Viable is,
1) -28% Cooldown(0.72 to 0.52)
2) -28% Heat Get(1Heat to 0.72Heat)
that would make both sides happy and AC2s viable,

Now remember we are not talking about AC2 Boating(i dont consider 2AC2s boating),
as their are better options for Heavier mechs(2AC5s for Example)
we are talking about buffing them for Lights and Mediums,

Edit- removed lessened heat because its not a problem unless boating 4+ AC2s,

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 31 August 2015 - 08:08 PM.

[Tombstoner]

Andi Nagasia, on 25 June 2015 - 02:10 PM, said:

so the Consenscess to Make AC2s Viable is,
1) -28% Cooldown(0.72 to 0.52)
2) -28% Heat Get(1Heat to 0.72Heat)
that would make both sides happy and AC2s viable,

Now remember we are not talking about AC2 Boating(i dont consider 2AC2s boating),
as their are better options for Heavier mechs(2AC5s for Example)
we are talking about buffing them for Lights and Mediums,

I am ok with a .5 or even a .25 cool-down as long as the damage is not 2 but 2 damage in 4 seconds. The ac-2 needs to do the 1/10 the damage of an ac-20 in the cycle rate of an ac-20 to maintain balance between rate of fire heat generation and tonnage allocated.

Shot speed must be extremely high so you can hit what your aiming at as well as range. A weapon like this would raise terror on the rear armor of +50 tone mechs.

The ac-2 when combined with high speed is an effective weapon in TT. In MWO it lacsk the damage when scaled properly to be a front line weapon, but when used to back stab an assault from long range. it would would very well.

Trying to match the ac-2 to the ac-20 is a huge mistake that PGI seems to be trying to shoe horn into the game. keeping the weapons damage at 2 for the sake of its name is a problem. Simply make it 2 damage in one standard cycle time. Its clear to me that PGI doesn't know how to scale things correctly.

[Lugh]

There is very little that can be done to make the ac2 viable.

It's a piteous weapon that like MGs has to be boated to extremes to SEEM effective.

[Andi Nagasia]

Lugh, on 26 June 2015 - 06:08 AM, said:

There is very little that can be done to make the ac2 viable.

It's a piteous weapon that like MGs has to be boated to extremes to SEEM effective.

i think with 0.52 cooldown AC2s could really become Viable for some Lights and Mediums,
of course you would have to Stare at your target, but if your pestering them they cant attack your teammates,

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

CD module would be useful

I found a mod/gm comment the other day where they said chainfiring ac2s was for griefing only lol

[Andi Nagasia]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 31 August 2015 - 07:50 PM, said:

CD module would be useful

I found a mod/gm comment the other day where they said chainfiring ac2s was for griefing only lol

LOLs,

Andi Nagasia said:

the thing is with how the Chain Fire Mechanic is designed,
you cant fire Ballistics or Missiles faster than 0.6sec as its hard locked to that,

for an Example take an Elited WarHawk/Nova into Training Grounds Both with both Ballistic arms,(-25% cooldown)
Equip 2UAC2/2AC2 and a couple tons of ammo, take these Mechs into Training Grounds(map doesnt matter),
First Chain Fire your AC2s, after that just hold down Fire on one of your AC2s, you will notice the difference,

if AC2s got this Buff than it would make them more Viable,
as you could fire faster than the hard locked 0.6 Chain Fire Spacer,
which could make them useful for smaller mechs, and heat will discourage/punish boating,
Edit-

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 31 August 2015 - 08:03 PM.

[Nightshade24]

Andi Nagasia, on 08 June 2015 - 07:50 PM, said:

it originally have GH so they where worried about it fireing faster than 0.6,
but as they removed it from GH(i dont see why it had GH) its fine now,
so why not make its Cool-down less so we can get more use out of it?

it had ghost heat because of the 6 AC 2 jagermech. The same way there is ghost heat for more then 2 ppcs.

[Andi Nagasia]

Nightshade24, on 31 August 2015 - 08:04 PM, said:

it had ghost heat because of the 6 AC 2 jagermech. The same way there is ghost heat for more then 2 ppcs.

Yup and now we have the DWF/KGC/ soon to be Mauler that will beable to Boat AC2s,
which is why i think Decreasing the Cooldown and not the heat is the way to go,
with only 10-14 Dubs you can Toast 6tons of Ammo and have under 10% heat,
and thats with having AC2s at 0.54 cooldown, which is close to what im asking,

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Andi Nagasia, on 31 August 2015 - 08:02 PM, said:

LOLs,

Nightshade24, on 31 August 2015 - 08:04 PM, said:

it had ghost heat because of the 6 AC 2 jagermech.

you ever SEEN that build? The build itself HAS drawbacks enough that it didnt NEED ghost heat to punish it rofl

[SolCrusher]

Well, they reduce the heat and increase the rate of fire I'll step up and buy the Mauler for MC.

[SolCrusher]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 31 August 2015 - 08:46 PM, said:

you ever SEEN that build? The build itself HAS drawbacks enough that it didnt NEED ghost heat to punish it rofl

True but 3 of them in coordination could put down some serious firepower. Never mind Atlas' at the time fell like a sack of potatoes to anyone who could consentrate on a center torso and someone "twisting" I just shake my head and pan back and forth as someone twists to spread my AC2 damage around. I still do it, it still works. Just takes my entire heat scale to put a big 100 ton mech down in my Crab.

[Nightshade24]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 31 August 2015 - 08:46 PM, said:

you ever SEEN that build? The build itself HAS drawbacks enough that it didnt NEED ghost heat to punish it rofl

I have seen it- and I got ****ed by one a few weeks ago. it isn't common- but it's more common then seeing half the mechs in game.

It was annoying, got stuck in non stop screenshake that I couldn't even identify what mech it was- I couldn't tell if it was a king crab, jager, direwolf, dragons, or a few different dakka mechs or what have you. My only notification was that i started to suicide rush it (I only got my 2 legs, ct, a st and arm but not the other one- note it got my big ST gun and head) and I only wanted to charge to just give the dakka mech a piece of my mind- dind't care if I was oging to die because I'm already hopeless with just a SRM 6 and a medium laser for defence. When I came over the ridge (had no fire for half of the time walking across the map to him) I found the ammo-less jagermech running away. was fun legging it and then killing it slowly but it kinda costed me the game because at this point there was only 1 raven on my team left and the whole 9 other enemies were on there way towards me or chasing the raven.

Would have been fun if I was a 4 UAC 20 direwolf. would be 2 kings of the 'trollbilstics' fighting each other with spam.