118 replies to this topic

[Malcolm Vordermark]

theta123, on 09 June 2015 - 07:04 AM, said:

So many mechs made by MWO look 10 times better then the origenal. Only the Gargogyle was a dissapointment IMO

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I love the way the standard Gargoyle looks. Less so for the (I) geometry. Of course, it was always an ugly mech and my last glimpse of it was in mech2.

[XX Sulla XX]

cdlord, on 09 June 2015 - 07:08 AM, said:

Yeah, I have found a liking for many mechs in MWO that I was absolutely horrified by the TRO artwork. Best example: Kintaro. If Alex can save that mech, then he's got my vote as a miracle worker. Now, let's see if he'll tackle the Crockett.

Ya they had some of the worst artists ever haha.

[Joseph Mallan]

Tarogato, on 08 June 2015 - 10:45 PM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...ron-born-model/

^ they are not changing the Cauldron Born.

It *has* to have a pelvis, it *has* to be able to torso twist.

No, the leg/walking animations are not the problem. We've seen animations in previous mech games where mechs without pelvises could walk just fine. No, PGI is never going to design a mech like that because

A: aesthetic decision
B: torso twist

---

My personal position is fu** off with the torso twist. I want low mechs. I'd rather my Nova have zero torso twist and be low profile, but then half the people who play this game "zOMGz MECHS NOT VIABLE WITHOUT TORSO TWIST HURR DURR." Well, screw them. =P

No it doesn't. The Cauldron Born and Nova did not need to torso twist. And we should have tested whether or not it could be viable prior to the change.

[Raggedyman]

Paigan, on 09 June 2015 - 01:22 AM, said:

Most original stuff is based on ridiculously bad design, would be nowhere near viable, walkable, workable.
I don't mean 100% realism, I mean some Mechs COULD NOT WALK.

On the one hand: you need realism so that the animations look convincing
On the other hand: walking tanks are not realistic, in any form

[Templar Dane]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 June 2015 - 08:01 AM, said:

No it doesn't. The Cauldron Born and Nova did not need to torso twist. And we should have tested whether or not it could be viable prior to the change.

A mech in this game has to torso twist or you wouldn't be able to hit anything. I've watched my nephews play and the youngest doesn't understand the whole torso twist mechanic so he ignores it and.......it's painful to watch.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mazzyplz, on 08 June 2015 - 10:16 PM, said:

now i am hoping you never make my most wanted mech for this game the bushwacker,
you took a mech that was supposed to be LOW, very low to the ground exactly like the bushwacker (clans even had the idea based on bushwacker according to sarna)
and made it into a timberwolf/catapult looking mech????

why?

someone made this mockup with the legs where they SHOULD be

http://i.imgur.com/6sh1elI.jpg

i know this won't fly in game because it has to torso twist; but
couldn't you at least make the legs fold back a lot more so it's more stuck to the ground?



here is the original one for reference
http://i.imgur.com/lACuMXu.jpg

this has left me praying that you NEVER EVER add the bushwacker to the game, please don't let them do what they did to ebon jag

Well, it wasn't "BASED" on the Bushwacker. Since the Ebon Jaguar entered production in 3049....3 years before the Bushwacker and before the Clans actually crossed into the Inner Sphere. It says it's low body style is similar to the Bushwacker.

Just to keep things on point.

That said, I agree. I't absolutely, in no way, a Cauldron Born, IMO. Too tall, too streamlines, etc. It should be a squat brute of a mech. But then, I was partial to the basic design aspects of David White's MW4 design.

[Juodas Varnas]

lordtzar, on 09 June 2015 - 07:54 AM, said:

When I see the marauder all I can think is



edit

Nerf marauder. It's hitboxes are OP

You're saying that like it's a bad thing

Those tripods were the best thing about the movie.

[Bishop Steiner]

Kiiyor, on 09 June 2015 - 01:54 AM, said:

Or balance.

OP, a heavy mech with the height of a medium? A small medium? With high weapon hardpoints, and what looks to be amazing frontal hitboxes?

No thanks. Nostalgia needs to take a back seat sometimes to gameplay practicality.

well, we have an Bipedal Assault the size of a Medium, now.... called Zeus, I believe. Chickenwalkers are usually by nature shorter than humanoids, because of the long fuselage bodies most (including the CauldronBorn) have.

Just saying.

It's also supposed to be tough as nails and harder than heck to bring down. Be shocked if that design fulfills that.

[Widowmaker1981]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 June 2015 - 08:01 AM, said:

No it doesn't. The Cauldron Born and Nova did not need to torso twist. And we should have tested whether or not it could be viable prior to the change.

That would be like testing whether or not it hurts when you grate your face with a cheesegrater and then pour lemon juice onto the wound. You can, but everyone knows the answer already. It hurts.

Mechs in MWO would NOT be viable with no torso twist, just as obviously.

[stjobe]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 June 2015 - 08:01 AM, said:

No it doesn't. The Cauldron Born and Nova did not need to torso twist. And we should have tested whether or not it could be viable prior to the change.

You can test it now if you want; just drop in a game and use leg-turning only. You can aim with your arms as long as you don't move your torso.

Come back and tell us how it went - I doubt you'll surprise anyone.

Any 'mech that can't torso-twist will be at a severe handicap the way MWO's control scheme is set up.

Torso twist rates are roughly double the leg-turn rates on most 'mechs, and arm yaw speed is even faster.

Just as an example, another 65-tonner, the Thunderbolt, has a twist speed of 45 degrees/s, a torso twist speed of 80 degrees/s and an arm yaw speed of 180 degrees/s.

[Juodas Varnas]

stjobe, on 09 June 2015 - 08:41 AM, said:

You can test it now if you want; just drop in a game and use leg-turning only. You can aim with your arms as long as you don't move your torso.

Come back and tell us how it went - I doubt you'll surprise anyone.

Any 'mech that can't torso-twist will be at a severe handicap the way MWO's control scheme is set up.

Torso twist rates are roughly double the leg-turn rates on most 'mechs, and arm yaw speed is even faster.

Just as an example, another 65-tonner, the Thunderbolt, has a twist speed of 45 degrees/s, a torso twist speed of 80 degrees/s and an arm yaw speed of 180 degrees/s.

Sooo they could just make the mechs with no waists simply turn faster. Like maybe... 1.5x the usual turning speed.

[Widowmaker1981]

stjobe, on 09 June 2015 - 08:41 AM, said:

You can test it now if you want; just drop in a game and use leg-turning only. You can aim with your arms as long as you don't move your torso.

Come back and tell us how it went - I doubt you'll surprise anyone.

Any 'mech that can't torso-twist will be at a severe handicap the way MWO's control scheme is set up.

Torso twist rates are roughly double the leg-turn rates on most 'mechs, and arm yaw speed is even faster.

Just as an example, another 65-tonner, the Thunderbolt, has a twist speed of 45 degrees/s, a torso twist speed of 80 degrees/s and an arm yaw speed of 180 degrees/s.

The biggest issue is the complete inability to shoot anything you are not moving directly toward.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Nova's in previous MW titles had no twist, they were fun but severely limited due to that, the ONLY thing that made them even remotely viable where the JJs that allowed you to spin in place, but they were still not top choices for anyone who wanted to, you know, maybe WIN once in a while.

You can always get the MW2 NetMech for free yourself and try out one of those Novas, see how fun they aren't, then come back here and tell us how well it would work in MWO.

[Wintersdark]

Mavairo, on 09 June 2015 - 07:09 AM, said:

If anyone thinks it being the "size of a cicada" would dethrone the Timbergod.....

heh as it stands, the CB may nor totally dethrone the Timberwolf (unless it lacks those energy nerf quirks) but it'll be damned close. Better hard points, smaller frontal profile, same pod space.

[Wintersdark]

Widowmaker1981, on 09 June 2015 - 08:46 AM, said:

The biggest issue is the complete inability to shoot anything you are not moving directly toward.

This.

Everything else aside, it would mean that to be able to fire at a target, you'd have to be moving towards (or backing away) from it. Directly. This means enemy mechs you're fighting needn't lead shots, and will pretty much always hit what they aim at.

A mech unable to torso twist would be very literally DOA. This doesn't require testing, its grossly obvious and as was said earlier, if it's not obvious to you its trivial to test in game. Bind torso twist to something random and just don't use it. See how well that works out for you.

[Wintersdark]

Juodas Varnas, on 09 June 2015 - 08:45 AM, said:

Sooo they could just make the mechs with no waists simply turn faster. Like maybe... 1.5x the usual turning speed.

This doesn't solve the inability to shoot at things your not moving towards.

Aside from that, MWO leg turning is digital. You'd never be able to get good lateral torso aiming going on.

And let's not forget, you'd lose lateral arm movement if you equipped basically anything but lasers in your arms because Clans.

[FupDup]

Paigan, on 09 June 2015 - 01:22 AM, said:

You BT original fanboys (I was one of you once, decades ago) really have to understand one thing:

Most original stuff is based on ridiculously bad design, would be nowhere near viable, walkable, workable.
I don't mean 100% realism, I mean some Mechs COULD NOT WALK.

Things have to be overhauled a little bit with more professionality in order to ever see them walking on the battlefield.

PGI's Ebon Jaguar looks amazing, MUCH better than that strange pancake that is the original abomination.

Pretty much this up here.

I could see some modest adjustments to PGI's version, but it utterly roflstomps the TT design into the ground in every possible way including aesthetics/mechporn, gameplay viability, AND also a bit more realistic as a cherry on top.

Edited by FupDup, 09 June 2015 - 10:54 AM.

[Templar Dane]

Wintersdark, on 09 June 2015 - 10:10 AM, said:

heh as it stands, the CB may nor totally dethrone the Timberwolf (unless it lacks those energy nerf quirks) but it'll be damned close. Better hard points, smaller frontal profile, same pod space.

There's no way they're going to have negative energy quirks...........until they come out for cbills.

[Pariah Devalis]

EBJ looks wrong in MWO?



Looks pretty close to me. Plus, we have not even seen it in game yet.

[Wintersdark]

lordtzar, on 09 June 2015 - 11:21 AM, said:

There's no way they're going to have negative energy quirks...........until they come out for cbills.

I'd be surprised if they launched with negative quirks, but to be fair: Of all the Clan mechs, only the TWolf and Scrow got nerf quirks - the rest where buffed. Not substantially buffed, mind you, but at least not nerfed more. And even the Twolf and Scrow had been out for a really long time before they got those nerfs.


Anyways, yeah, the CB probably won't have nerf quirks, and if it doesn't it'll mop the floor with Timberwolf juice.