332 replies to this topic

[ShinVector]

Mycrus, on 02 October 2015 - 08:23 PM, said:

Their vetting procedures looks legit to me...

http://www.escapistm...tting-and-Respo

CR took the bait hook line and sinker... he is so paranoid he is seeing derek smart in every shadow... 7 employees talking seems something is afoot.



Their vetting procedures looks legit to me...

http://www.escapistm...tting-and-Respo

CR took the bait hook line and sinker... he is so paranoid he is seeing derek smart in every shadow... 7 employees talking seems something is afoot.

DS is an actual nemesis of CR since the creation of Wing com, if you seen if site.... Aieieie !

This part by the magazine I found lame "Unfortunately, the response ended up in my spam folder, as it came in unformatted and the pictures did not load."
Not mentioned at all in their initial 'update'. Two bad it ended in the spam folder for two people...
*They probably only found it after CR mentioned he replied to them...

As for posting your hate of your boss and your ex-job on reddit... Do people normally do this ?

Edited by ShinVector, 02 October 2015 - 10:11 PM.

[Mycrus]

ShinVector, on 02 October 2015 - 10:10 PM, said:

DS is an actual nemesis of CR since the creation of Wing com, if you seen if site.... Aieieie !

This part by the magazine I found lame "Unfortunately, the response ended up in my spam folder, as it came in unformatted and the pictures did not load."
Not mentioned at all in their initial 'update'. Two bad it ended in the spam folder for two people...
*They probably only found it after CR mentioned he replied to them...

As for posting your hate of your boss and your ex-job on reddit... Do people normally do this ?

Different cultures... generally it isn't blasted on the internet but definitely people talk... even heightened when you are in a small industry... you will know somebody who knows somebody..

CR should have clicked reply to all... i mean who the hell just clicks 'reply' nowadays...

[ShinVector]

Mycrus, on 02 October 2015 - 10:27 PM, said:

Different cultures... generally it isn't blasted on the internet but definitely people talk... even heightened when you are in a small industry... you will know somebody who knows somebody..

CR should have clicked reply to all... i mean who the hell just clicks 'reply' nowadays...

He obviously has a low opinion of the reporter. He replied to her editor and the other dude...
Too bad they rush the whole thing... And may have landed themselves in poo poo..

Let them have their tour then..

Must agree though.. They way this played out...
Can imagine DS... Doing a homealone... "YEEESS !! Yes !!! YEEEASSS !!" in the background..

[Heffay]

spectralthundr, on 02 October 2015 - 07:44 PM, said:

So he finally turned on CIG eh? Didn't see that coming a couple years back, oh wait, I actually said it was going to happen in one of those Hate on MWO threads.

Yup. Haters gonna hate. It's just in his nature.

"There is something that someone likes! We have to destroy it!"

I call it The Greater Internet Hipster theory.

[Gremlich Johns]

ShinVector, on 02 October 2015 - 11:06 PM, said:

He obviously has a low opinion of the reporter. He replied to her editor and the other dude...
Too bad they rush the whole thing... And may have landed themselves in poo poo..

Let them have their tour then..

Must agree though.. They way this played out...
Can imagine DS... Doing a homealone... "YEEESS !! Yes !!! YEEEASSS !!" in the background..

1) If DS turns out to be right, he wins
2) If DS turns out to be wrong, he will spin the events as his success at lighting a fire under CIG's posterior, and he wins.

[Mycrus]

nobody ever wrote PGI a song...

here is the summary of star citizen in ballad form...




EDIT:

Lyrics

LYRICS:
the legend lives on from the forums on down
of the game dev who made wing commander
the man they all say never quite found a way
to respond to the lies and the slander

from his backers he scored eighty-six million bucks more
though the promises made were quite empty
that company and crew was a bone to be chewed
when the blogs of october came early

the game was the pride of all nerdlings worldwide
spending all of their cash for no reason
as the kickstarters go it was bigger than most
with rewards and good stretch goals well seasoned

concluding some sales with a coupla' space whales
while their deadlines were still disappearing
come three years later when their twitter feeds rang
could it be derek smart they'd been fearing?

the forums online made a tattle-tale whine
with the subreddit frantically wailing
and every man knew as the chairman did too
t'was the goons of october come stealin'

the sale came late and the videos had to wait
though the hit in morale was a small one
when the article came it was more of the same
in the face of a million refunds

when suppertime came all the mods came on deck sayin'
fellas, we'll just have to ban ya
at seven p.m. the last blog post came in, they said
fellas, it's been good to know ya

the chairman wrote in he had committed no sin
toward the broken, the poor, and the hateful
and later that night on his battered website
went the wrecks of star citizen's faithful

does anyone know where the love of god goes
when you browse those forums for hours?
the faithful still say we'll see gameplay next may
if you just spend a thousand more dollars

it might be online and it might be single player
it might even see a release soon
but all that we see is the hopes and the dreams
of the redditors, furries and spacegoons

freelancer's good, wing commander's alright
and the x series keeps on surviving
old freespace seems like a young nerd's dreams
elite and the rest keep on flying

and year after year it just keeps getting clearer
that a space game's just planning for failure
when star citizen goes just like everyone knows
will the goons of october remember?

in a dusty old thread on the forums they watched
the collapse of the faithful on reddit
and as denial began, they stood tall to a man
or at least five in the case of ben lesnick

the legend lives on from the forums on down
of the game dev who made wing commander
chris roberts they say always could find a way
to turn failure to more propaganda

Edited by Mycrus, 03 October 2015 - 08:46 AM.

[Kyone Akashi]

Iqfish, on 02 October 2015 - 02:26 PM, said:

People, can we please stop for a second and realize that Glassdoor is an open forum?

But that's not the source, at least according to Escapist.

Iqfish, on 02 October 2015 - 02:26 PM, said:

A person like Derek Smart does not care if it is bad publicity or good publicity, these people live of attention.

I don't think a lot of people care about Derek Smart. He's not a journalist and doesn't run a business whose income depends on delivering news coverage to as many people as possible. Honestly: he raised a few good points, but ultimately he disqualified himself from the debate a long time ago simply due to his antics.

But like I said: Take a step back, if you can, and consider the possible consequences for all parties involved:

If the Escapist lies, they'd have gained an immediate upsurge in "clicks" which are necessary to maintain their further existence due to monetarisation of advertisement. However, these are claims that will ultimately be verifiable, so it's just a matter of time until the truth comes out -- and given the sensitivity of the topic, it could seriously damage their reputation as a news outlet if it was all just a load of hot air, so much so that this short-term spike in popularity would have to be paid with long-term stigmatisation, ultimately costing readers and thus revenue. Which sounds like a bad idea.

And this is before we consider that a lot of the Escapist's readers are avid Star Citizen fans themselves, so this story is literally "poking the bee hive". Do you really think the potential gain would outweigh the consequences here, and do you really think they'd act this short-sighted?

If Chris Roberts lies, on the other hand, not much would change. CIG will stand or fall with Star Citizen, so IF the game will be a disaster, people would care about that a lot more than past responses to earlier allegations. They'd still be remembered, I'm sure, but his name would be ruined much more by the fate of his project, and anything he did to hide it would become merely an adjunct to that.

Also, he absolutely could not let such allegations stand in the room unchallenged -- not just because they may be untrue, but primarily because CIG is still selling licenses for future ships worth many hundreds of dollars. IF the company really has wasted so many millions of dollars, he utterly depends on making as many of these sales as possible, and allegations such as the Escapist article would warrant the fiercest response possible in order to not lose any potential buyers.

I don't know if he could even sue the Escapist for supposed slander, but such a lawsuit might require CIG to disclose verifiable aspects such as their current budget, and if the allegations are actually true that would of course backfire.

ShinVector, on 02 October 2015 - 10:10 PM, said:

As for posting your hate of your boss and your ex-job on reddit... Do people normally do this ?

Not normally, but I've seen it happen if someone was particularly fed up.
It depends on how douchy the employee is, and how horrible the working conditions. There's almost always two sides to a story.

It's pretty much unheard of in the videogame industry, though, especially as usually you are required to sign some sort of Non-Disclosure Agreement.

That being said, I imagine that a lot of people applying at CIG go there with huge eyes and bigger dreams, so if something doesn't work out, their disappointment will be even greater. That does not mean that the disappointment is actually warranted, of course -- sometimes, expectations cannot be fulfilled simply because the bar was set too high. Of course, that is something that Star Citizen backers should remember as well. As gamers, many of us are easy to get excited, and the folks at CIG certainly know how to play to this trait.

Edited by Kyone Akashi, 03 October 2015 - 09:00 PM.

[Iqfish]

Mycrus, if you would put as much energy into own projects, as you put into ******** on other peoples work, you would end up with something actually meaningful that people care about.

I am bailing out of this thread, since it moved away from a discussion about the game to a shitshow lead by two forum members throwing **** at the project whereever possible.

The last thing I am giving you guys to read is the Answer Ortwin Freyermuth gave the Escapist yesterday. It should wipe away some of your "arguments".


https://robertsspace...To-The-Escapist


Have fun circlejerking and I will come back as soon as you guys moved back to a discussion about the game

[Tarzilman]

Well... why should the great SC experience something different than MWO once did and sometimes still does?

Haters gonna hate and personally I am glad to see that the great and sacrosanct Chris Roberts also cooks only with water, like we say in germany.

I don't blame him for that. SC will be a great game once it's been finished.

But to all RSI Fanboys out there that said so much negative about MWO I'd love to say "I told you so!".

Edited by Tarzilman, 04 October 2015 - 05:16 AM.

[Gremlich Johns]

That update from this morning should give people more perspective and hopefully more neutral bias.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 04 October 2015 - 10:56 AM.

[Kyone Akashi]

Interesting how no mention is made of the existing employees who - supposedly - likewise came forward with similar stories to tell, or how they still feel they have to mention Smart again when the journalists clarified that he had nothing to do wit hit. Did they miss out on those things, or does it just not fit the narrative they are trying to push?

Either way, it's good that CIG is considering legal action now, if they actually intend to go through with it. Perhaps if both sides have to play with open cards, we'll be able to get a better picture of what is actually going on. I for one find it remarkable that neither side seems willing to back down, and I'm looking forward to further news concerning this situation. It obviously involves a lot of drama and crap-flinging (though if it actually is a "conspiracy", I could understand the hurt/aggressive tone in CIG's letter), but I'm fascinated by how this is going to play out. It's pretty much a first in the gaming industry, isn't it?

On a sidenote, how would this work out for the whistleblowers if things move to court? Would their identities remain protected by judges assessing their testimony in a closed hearing?

[Gremlich Johns]

Patently not, particularly if you have other money at your disposal, like that from royalties, etc. (which CR and the rest of them do - even DS makes the claim that he has other sources of money)

http://www.forbes.co...and-retraction/

[Kyone Akashi]

Marack Drock, on 04 October 2015 - 11:50 AM, said:

Legal action means the money supposed to be on the game gets spent... on lawyers.

Considering the massive amount of cash CIG spent on other things, I doubt this would be a huge position in their budget. They probably have a permanently hired legal team, anyways (all the big gaming companies do, for obvious reasons), so these lawyers are getting paid regardless of whether they're doing something other than just writing cease-and-desist letters for unauthorised use of their IP.

Marack Drock, on 04 October 2015 - 11:50 AM, said:

Also haven't been keeping track, what is this possible legal action about?

If the Escapist article is fabrication, I believe it would be grounds for sueing for slander. CIG still intends to sell more ships, and an article such as this could seriously hurt their sales or even have existing backers demand refunds, ultimately causing financial loss for the company.

I for one hope that it does go to the courts just so we can see what all the hubbub is about.

On a sidenote, I have trouble believing that CIG doesn't have ID cards. With a company such as this, you won't have open doors where anyone can just walk into your office. It's pretty standard to have doors that open only to company IDs, and employees get specifically briefed about watching out for "tailgaters". It's not the Pentagon, but if you think that gaming companies don't care for security, you'd be wrong.

Maybe they meant something like "oh, they're RFID cards rather than ID badges", but that would be some seriously deflective and hairsplitting wording.

[Kyone Akashi]

To be fair, if the article is true, the company would probably refrain from going to court. I assume each party would have to present verifiable facts to cement their position, and whilst an oath may not prevent everyone from lying, at least the bit about CIG's financial situation should be easy to find out just by taking a look at their books.

If I were Roberts and the article IS all fabrication, I'd sue the escapist as well.

If the article is true, I'd only threaten to do so and then back down at the last minute.

[ShinVector]

Kyone Akashi, on 04 October 2015 - 03:20 PM, said:

On a sidenote, I have trouble believing that CIG doesn't have ID cards. With a company such as this, you won't have open doors where anyone can just walk into your office. It's pretty standard to have doors that open only to company IDs, and employees get specifically briefed about watching out for "tailgaters". It's not the Pentagon, but if you think that gaming companies don't care for security, you'd be wrong.

Maybe they meant something like "oh, they're RFID cards rather than ID badges", but that would be some seriously deflective and hairsplitting wording.

CIG state itself to have 51-200 staff and that is probably split across the 4 studios.
It is still kinda of small to medium company so, pictured IDs are still probably optional.

Though I thought the article mentioned something about probably a forum CIG userid or something like that... But... Who cares...

[Kyone Akashi]

Marack Drock, on 04 October 2015 - 04:32 PM, said:

Either way it will hurt the company.

I doubt it -- IF the article is false. There's no reason to put the project on hold if it isn't even part of the lawsuit (remember, it'd be CIG sueing the Escapist), and the company isn't after any profits here. If there are any, it'd be a bonus, but the goal would be to have the Escapist recant its article and issue an official apology, as demanded in the letter sent to them.

ShinVector, on 04 October 2015 - 04:50 PM, said:

CIG state itself to have 51-200 staff and that is probably split across the 4 studios.
It is still kinda of small to medium company so, pictured IDs are still probably optional.

Oh, not necessarily picture IDs. It'd just be a matter of actually getting into the office and to your desk. Like keys, just in card form.
At my office, we use these to swipe the doors, too. Employee badges actually do have pictures, but if someone has forgotten theirs, or if we have visitors touring the studio, reception hands out blank ones, too.

Companies such as these are sensitive when it comes to unwanted people hanging out in the office, as (needless to say) there's often a lot of sensitive stuff you wouldn't get some journo getting their hands on before you're ready to announce. I actually recall a story from one or two months ago where some random person managed to sneak into an office just to see how it was like, and he ended up hanging around for an hour or two and even ate in the canteen with everybody just assuming he belonged there. Though that was a larger developer where employees don't know everyone. ^^'

[Mycrus]

Iqfish, on 04 October 2015 - 02:46 AM, said:

Mycrus, if you would put as much energy into own projects, as you put into ******** on other peoples work, you would end up with something actually meaningful that people care about.

I am bailing out of this thread, since it moved away from a discussion about the game to a shitshow lead by two forum members throwing **** at the project whereever possible.

The last thing I am giving you guys to read is the Answer Ortwin Freyermuth gave the Escapist yesterday. It should wipe away some of your "arguments".


https://robertsspace...To-The-Escapist


Have fun circlejerking and I will come back as soon as you guys moved back to a discussion about the game

For a minute there i thought you were talking about derek smart..

Im a minimally viable troll... i dont 'exert' my energies when i troll

Here have a new article about serious business...

http://www.gameinfor...nt-article.aspx

[ShinVector]

Mycrus, on 04 October 2015 - 08:39 PM, said:

Im a minimally viable troll... i dont 'exert' my energies when i troll

Nah... You lie... At least Tier 2 Troll if not Tier 1.

[Mycrus]

ShinVector, on 04 October 2015 - 09:13 PM, said:

Nah... You lie... At least Tier 2 Troll if not Tier 1.

Hehehe... nah if you want tier 1 examples take a look at this writeup...

http://www.informati...o-the-escapist/

[ShinVector]

Mycrus, on 04 October 2015 - 09:19 PM, said:

Hehehe... nah if you want tier 1 examples take a look at this writeup...

http://www.informati...o-the-escapist/

TL;DR... o/