126 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Moldur, on 14 June 2015 - 01:07 PM, said:

People fear power creep in a game following a timeline that involves new technologies. smh.

MWO must be sacrificed at the altar of eSports and CoD.

[Johnny Z]

Mystere, on 14 June 2015 - 03:36 PM, said:

MWO must be sacrificed at the altar of eSports and CoD.

The troll brigade answers every topic on anything with this line. Very funny because its getting laughs now.

Edited by Johnny Z, 14 June 2015 - 04:02 PM.

[Nathan Foxbane]

Andi Nagasia, on 13 June 2015 - 08:57 PM, said:

Engine Crits Exist By the way,
was playing a TBR lost my RT was getting hit by IS AC5 on HPG,
had CT armor, got hit 3 times, 1st lost last of CT armor and some damage,
the other 2 hits killed me, which is imposable if Engines cant be Crited,

Yes i have Video i just havent Uploaded it to youTube as i thought it was common,

Engine crits do not exist. Critical hits in this game work as damage multipliers and there are lower chances at getting higher multipliers. If you died that way someone got lucky and received not just critical hits, but critical hits with max multipliers. Depending on what exactly hit you those multipliers can add a significant amount of damage.

If engine criticals existed in this game it would be possible to die without any section of the 'Mech being destroyed. As it stand this lack of engine criticals actually means MWO XL engines are actually tougher than TT engines. I would love to have engine criticals as it would make most players play more cautiously. I would also like gyro criticals and a heatscale with performance penalties and ammo explosion chances rather than damage effects. I do not think many current MWO players realize how fragile TT 'Mechs could actually be.

Edited by Nathan Foxbane, 14 June 2015 - 04:27 PM.

[Dino Might]

The game that did really well with robot damage was Heavy Gear 2. Even lights would often find themselves gimped a bit just before exploding if they were fighting someone using a DOT weapon like an autocannon. Assaults could take more of a pounding, but often times you could get crit such that your torso got locked or your secondary movement system (skates, essentially) get knocked out. It was cool surviving a fight and having to figure out how to be effective with your sensors blown out and other stuff messed up.

MWO gets that from having the different hit locations and being able to blow off components, but there is no subsystem damage tracking. Your targetting system, HUD, sensors, etc. all work perfectly fine until you explode. How cool would it be to be running around with your mech totally shot to heck, your sensors are gone, there are sparks sporadically popping from the right hand console, you can't torso twist to the left more than 15 degrees off center, and one of your arms is locked facing askew. You've got a pair of torso lasers and one SRM pack left, and you'll be darned if you go out without taking another of them with you. Onward, ho!

[Varvar86]

What’s the point in STD engines than? IS already overbuffed, and you want more?
Clan release forced PGI to destroy game balance with those quirking, and ordinary players lost their minds in this never ending cry for “nerf/buff things”.
For now “Amazing” hit detection helps mediums/lights easily survive with XL equipped. to be killed you must either stood still or dumb rushing on big group of enemy mechs.
My one friend already has left this game, and second play it maximum 2 times in a month because of this mad changes and rebalancing every 2 weeks… please stop!


Will agree with post above by Dino Might -- its better to take course on simulation of mech systems damages instead of not dying metal coffins, able to kill entire army being only at 25% health.

Edited by Varvar86, 15 June 2015 - 12:24 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Nathan Foxbane, on 14 June 2015 - 04:27 PM, said:

Engine crits do not exist. Critical hits in this game work as damage multipliers and there are lower chances at getting higher multipliers. If you died that way someone got lucky and received not just critical hits, but critical hits with max multipliers. Depending on what exactly hit you those multipliers can add a significant amount of damage.

If engine criticals existed in this game it would be possible to die without any section of the 'Mech being destroyed. As it stand this lack of engine criticals actually means MWO XL engines are actually tougher than TT engines. I would love to have engine criticals as it would make most players play more cautiously. I would also like gyro criticals and a heatscale with performance penalties and ammo explosion chances rather than damage effects. I do not think many current MWO players realize how fragile TT 'Mechs could actually be.

You're half right; engines can be crit.
At the moment, it's a 12 slot crit-able item for the IS-XL, with 15 HP. It just so happens, like actuators, they just soak up crits and have no effect.

Module faction="InnerSphere" CType="CEngineStats" name="Engine_XL_100" id="3318">
<Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\XLEngine.dds" descTag="@Engine_XL_Fusion_100_desc" nameTag="@Engine_XL_Fusion_100"/>
<EngineStats health="15" heatsinks="4" weight="0.5" rating="100" sidesToDie="1" sideSlots="3" slots="6"/>

Difference between IS and Clam XLs is the "sidesToDie" (and crit slots which result in that)

Module faction="Clan" CType="CEngineStats" name="Engine_Clan_XL_160" id="3430">
<Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\XLEngine.dds" descTag="@Engine_Clan_XL_Fusion_160_desc" nameTag="@Engine_Clan_XL_Fusion_160"/>
<EngineStats health="15" heatsinks="6" weight="4.0" rating="160" sidesToDie="2" sideSlots="2" slots="6"/>

Something tells me it wouldn't be too hard to split the ST engine slots into separate crit-able items, but still doesn't change the ST gone-dead relationship, unless you make the isXL require 4 crits to die. But, that also means you can CT die before being completely destroyed, with 6 engine slots in the CT. Of course, heatsinks in the CT also crit pad, so a 400XL mech with 6 heatsinks supposedly has 30 crit-able slots in the CT, if that info is correct.


Anyways, change 'sidesToDie' to 'slotsToDie' to 4 for both factions, the IS might survive longer.

Restrict Crit-able engine slots (that count towards death) to either ST (excluding the CT) and you get more durability, period, for IS mechs.


Of course, this means you might die when everything is still intact, but damaged. It adds some real RNG to death, which can be unfortunate.

[Widowmaker1981]

Its a complicated issue. On one hand you have the fact that the C-Xl is obviously and noticably superior to the IS-XL engine. But then you have to look at the fact that clans are not given a choice on taking an XL, and the fact that literally every single clan chassis has incredibly vulnerable STs. If you add a 50% speed penalty on top of the existing heat nerf, the mech that loses the ST might as well be dead.

To be honest, considering the fact that clan mechs cannot choose to swap to a standard engine, i dont support making ST loss for clan mechs more punishing than it is right now (if you think the heat nerf isnt noticable, you havent played an energy based clan mech enough). Id rather see either some kind of buff to the IS XL, the introduction of LFEs, or armour quirks to IS mechs STs to allow them to run XLs easier. Oh wait, they already did option 3...

[Joseph Mallan]

MerryIguana, on 14 June 2015 - 08:18 AM, said:

I dont want to have to rebuy 90% of my IS engines. LFE would do that.

How many Engines do you have? I mean come on. Only Mercs like the Dragoons which were clanners with a star league factory could have all the engines they wanted...

[Bongo TauKat]

I think that anything other than the drawback of ST death would really make the IS standard pointless right now. Maybe when we get to light fusion and the like it will be worth revisiting but the balance between IS XL engines and the fixed loadouts of the clan work fine as they are now.

[Dingo Battler]

Easy fix is to make the mech move as if it has been legged if the ST blows up with an XL engine. You get a huge gimp, but you can still bring your firepower to bear

[Widowmaker1981]

KBurn85, on 15 June 2015 - 03:05 AM, said:

Easy fix is to make the mech move as if it has been legged if the ST blows up with an XL engine. You get a huge gimp, but you can still bring your firepower to bear

Only if it comes with the option to swap engines. Because a legged mech is a dead mech, and all clan mechs have very very easy to hit STs. So if you make it like that, allow me to take a STD engine instead (and Endo Steel, because weight).

[Joseph Mallan]

Widowmaker1981, on 15 June 2015 - 03:11 AM, said:

Only if it comes with the option to swap engines. Because a legged mech is a dead mech, and all clan mechs have very very easy to hit STs. So if you make it like that, allow me to take a STD engine instead (and Endo Steel, because weight).

Your point about the Clan side torso is good, but the rule for Omnis is no engine tweaking. The reason is in the story. Clans are GIVEN their Mechs or they are won. Clans are not known for their... abundance of resources.

[Widowmaker1981]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 June 2015 - 03:16 AM, said:

Your point about the Clan side torso is good, but the rule for Omnis is no engine tweaking. The reason is in the story. Clans are GIVEN their Mechs or they are won. Clans are not known for their... abundance of resources.

Thats fine, in a world where clan mechs still function after losing an ST. 50% speed is not functioning. It is dead.

How often do you like more than a few seconds after getting legged? Now add to that the fact you also lost half your guns and cooling.. yeah. Dead in all but name.
IS mechs have a CHOICE. Big STs? use a standard. Small STs/easy to hit CT? use an XL. No, its not tonnage based, the Banshee runs an XL far better than a Hunchback does.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Moldur, on 14 June 2015 - 01:07 PM, said:

People fear power creep in a game following a timeline that involves new technologies. smh.

New tech doesnt need to include power creep......

[Aresye]

Averen, on 14 June 2015 - 05:48 AM, said:

If you'd ever want to do something as stupid as using a warhawk for dual gauß.

- Faster
- Large Torso Twist Radius
- Armor quirks for arms.
- 85t

Considering the Warhawk and Dire Wolf are the ONLY two Clan mechs at the moment that can reliably carry dual gauss, the Warhawk has its place in CW when you don't want to take the tonnage hit of taking a Dire Wolf.

The Cauldron Born will definitely end up being superior to the Warhawk. I think we've already established that it will likely have some balance problems.

[Mystere]

Widowmaker1981, on 15 June 2015 - 04:16 AM, said:

Thats fine, in a world where clan mechs still function after losing an ST. 50% speed is not functioning. It is dead.

How often do you like more than a few seconds after getting legged? Now add to that the fact you also lost half your guns and cooling.. yeah. Dead in all but name.

And that's exactly what some people actually want. Their calls for so-called "balance" is just a giant ruse.

LordKnightFandragon, on 15 June 2015 - 01:19 PM, said:

New tech doesnt need to include power creep......

Except that "new" tech is usually "better" tech.

[Gerwig]

I would be glad for some of these ideas assuming it replaced the quirk system.

[CHH Badkarma]

This thread again?

How many times is this going to be driven into the ground...

FupDup, on 13 June 2015 - 08:01 PM, said:

....Clan tech itself is mostly outperforming its IS counterparts.

Really? So much for all that info on the CW stats that says otherwise. Granted, we do outperform IS on friendly fire, but that's mainly because of ppl being kill hungry steeping in front of a laser with loooooong beam duration

Edited by CHH Badkarma, 16 June 2015 - 12:47 AM.

[Whatzituyah]

CHH Badkarma, on 16 June 2015 - 12:41 AM, said:

This thread again?

How many times is this going to be driven into the ground...



Really? So much for all that info on the CW stats that says otherwise. Granted, we do outperform IS on friendly fire, but that's mainly because of ppl being kill hungry steeping in front of a laser with loooooong beam duration

If you can go to sleep in two seconds that is impressive also you should see a doctor about that.

[Matthew Ace]

... he said "steeping", not sleeping.

On topic - IS XL is FINE. Light Fusion is a decade away in timeline. This is coming from a guy who plays almost exclusively IS mechs and whose main ride is an Awesome with XL engine.

Clan XL is fine, leave it alone.

Edited by Matthew Ace, 16 June 2015 - 12:56 AM.