228 replies to this topic

[Widowmaker1981]

The problem with flamers is that their canon use is to overheat mechs, but a stunlock weapon cannot exist in an FPS. Making them good involves either:

a) Creating a functioning stunlock weapon, which would ruin the game imo.
or
Making flamers into another machine gun with a different graphic

I have no problem with flamers sucking, they dont have a place in this game imo.

[Túatha Dé Danann]

Widowmaker1981, on 16 June 2015 - 02:59 AM, said:

Little pissed at the MASC speed values for the Shadow Cat. It will get ~117 kph with MASC on, and if instead of mounting MASC it has simply put those 2 tons into running an XL300 instead of a 270 it would run 117kph all of the time with no sprint bar mechanic to deal with, and no slots used in the CT.

I know construction rules are such that you cant do that, but MASC should be balanced to give MORE than pumping the equivalent tonnage into the engine, since it takes slots and active management.

Maybe the acceleration boni will make it worth it, but i think the top speed should be higher.

+1

Because of the fixed system mechanic on Clan mechs, we end up using equipment from stock loadout that may make little to no sense at all. The MASC in the Shadow-Cat could easily be taken into the engine for a permanent bonus, but as it stands now, its the worst trade-off I could think about. Also, the XL300 also increases accelleration and decelleration rates too - so the bonus here is also rather thin.

My proposal still stands:
- Make MASC a dynamic equipment
- Make JJ dynamic again
- Make stuff like Beagle dynamic
- Enable Endo-Steel upgrades for all mechs that don't have Endo

Those four things would fix most of the bad mechs while not changing anything on the "good" ones.

Edited by Túatha Dé Danann, 16 June 2015 - 03:33 AM.

[LORD ORION]

These are available today also right?

http://mwomercs.com/...ore-april-21st/

[TWIAFU]

Nightshade24, on 15 June 2015 - 10:38 PM, said:

I quite like the current mechlab...

Yes.

The mech LAB is great! Selection needs some work for those not used to it.

LORD ORION, on 16 June 2015 - 03:42 AM, said:

These are available today also right?

http://mwomercs.com/...ore-april-21st/

They should be, hoping to get the Griffin.

[signal]

Widowmaker1981, on 16 June 2015 - 02:59 AM, said:

Little pissed at the MASC speed values for the Shadow Cat. It will get ~117 kph with MASC on, and if instead of mounting MASC it has simply put those 2 tons into running an XL300 instead of a 270 it would run 117kph all of the time with no sprint bar mechanic to deal with, and no slots used in the CT.

I know construction rules are such that you cant do that, but MASC should be balanced to give MORE than pumping the equivalent tonnage into the engine, since it takes slots and active management.

Maybe the acceleration boni will make it worth it, but i think the top speed should be higher.

the agility and accel of the mech should be much higher than a 2 ton heavier engine, but I agree the speed should be at least 2% higher

[Wildstreak]

ShadowWard, on 15 June 2015 - 08:29 PM, said:

Heyas Dev's.

I just have one question about the above. From my understanding. the Clans were the first ones to have MASC.... If that's the case.. then why do the Clan's suffer from 'more' random damage, than IS Mech's equipped with MASC? And the IS ends up with a MASC Size that's actually bigger than the biggest Clan one?

Shouldn't that be the other way around? as the IS would be working with unfamiliar tech?

(No im not a "Clan's must be more powerful!" player.... but it honestly just seems backwards to me.)

Balance. Each side's MASC has different advantage(s). So far, Clan gets it first and has less tonnage and crits to hit while IS MASC is not hardlocked into one location.

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 15 June 2015 - 09:33 PM, said:

The most recent data that we have to compare IS 'mechs against each other disagrees with your opinion.

In the recent leaderboard events, sorted by average top 50 score ...
'mech ... #50 - average - #1
JR7-O ... 2265 - 2642 - 3660
PNT-10K ... 2101 - 2402 - 3007
COM-TDK ... 1962 - 2318 - 3032
JR7-D ... 1985 - 2280 - 2963
LCT-1V ... 1684 - 1970 - 2653

Oxide: clearly superior ... Locust: clearly crappy ... the others, about average.


No argument with the Vindicator ... that poor thing needs some help. MLX is probably about right for a 25 tonner.

But hey, great patch, huh?

Well, glad someone keeps track of all these events to compare. Given the data you are using, we should wait for the next two Hero events to see what happens with them. Really, how will the Emeber board look?

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 15 June 2015 - 10:37 PM, said:

The Commando is a fragile 'mech, but it's quick and can punch above it's weight when properly loaded, just don't get hit. The MLX is basically the same, just a bit slower, with jump jets, better weapons per ton, and more survivability.

If MLX has a bad reputation, then I'd guess the reason is people don't feel OP when using it and don't like getting blasted to bits when they screw up. A pilot who is running around in a 25 ton 'mech with any number of potential one-shots around the corner, or over the next ridge, should be either terrified or insane.

Misty also has the option to equip ECM (solo & team benefit depending on how it is used) and longer range lasers.

Jimmy DiGriz, on 16 June 2015 - 12:07 AM, said:

No idea about the "historical" values of MASC (not too bothered to be honest, I play MWO not Battletech - and he ducks preparing for shot fired!) but having watched the NGNG stream yesterday, I have to say it looks a little...meh.

I was hoping for more spectacular acceleration - a sort of N2O effect, a bit more "kick in the chest" - although I suppose as it was being run on a 95 ton chassis that would be hard. Hopefully MASC will be more impressive on the Shadowcat and other lighter chassis. Still, when used correctly - popping back into cover, pulling tight turns etc. - even on the Exe it looks mighty useful.

This ain't the Fast & the Mechturious starring Vin Diesel & Dwayne Johnson.
Now watch Plexi steal that for a All Systems Nominal.

Odanan, on 16 June 2015 - 02:22 AM, said:

But if PGI one day improve the flamer, they won't be able to make the weapon fixed again (the QQ will be big - see TW S jumpjets).

Flamers can be made viable in several simple ways, like increasing the damage by, lets say, 30%.

If Flamers were changed to become good, they will not have to, people can just equip them.

[NUJRSYDEVIL]

This is what I gathered on CW...

DEFENSE is going to be a cakewalk

- O Gens are protected which means that they probably won't be able to be hit by LRMs or air/artillery strikes. Also, weapons without pinpoint accuracy (LBX) will be less effective.

- Drop ships are even more heavily armed and will hover for a "longer time". That's insane, there's nothing in this game that can match the firepower of a 12 ERLL ship that just shoots for an extended period of time

- Spawn camping may have been solved by making maps like Vitric Forge inaccessible to non JJ mechs. There is the potential for abuse right there if the defending team has more kills and just needs to wait it out, they can stay in an area that only a few mechs can get to.

[Mawai]

I think the MC pricing of the Trebuchet mastery bundle is incorrect ... might want to take a look.

[Mawai]

NUJRSYDEVIL, on 16 June 2015 - 04:46 AM, said:

This is what I gathered on CW...

DEFENSE is going to be a cakewalk

- O Gens are protected which means that they probably won't be able to be hit by LRMs or air/artillery strikes. Also, weapons without pinpoint accuracy (LBX) will be less effective.

- Drop ships are even more heavily armed and will hover for a "longer time". That's insane, there's nothing in this game that can match the firepower of a 12 ERLL ship that just shoots for an extended period of time

- Spawn camping may have been solved by making maps like Vitric Forge inaccessible to non JJ mechs. There is the potential for abuse right there if the defending team has more kills and just needs to wait it out, they can stay in an area that only a few mechs can get to.

"if the defending team has more kills and just needs to wait it out, "

I'm not sure I understand this one. The new drop zones are not on top of the generator. If the defender doesn't move out and take control of the generator area then the attacker will easily win.

The generators have a shield to stop light mech circle rushes and yes it will probably stop long range LRM rain (assuming that was ever effective). The light mechs will have to slow or stop to fire through the vulnerable section of the shield.

Spawn areas have apparently been moved back, made less accessible and the drop ships hover over the spawn. This means that the opposing team cant set up camp on the spawn location and blow up the opponents as they drop ... but that is about it.

Finally, as far as I know, the victory conditions in CW are
1) Kill the generator
2) Completely eliminate the opposing force

There is no victory condition for the side with the most kills. So ... there is no benefit to either side to hide in their drop zone ... they either have to completely eliminate the opposing team or kill the generator to win ... neither of which will be accomplished by sitting on their drop zone.

On the other hand, if a team knows they are going to lose then they could sit on their drop zone to waste everyone's time .. in which case they can likely be reported.

[Twilight Fenrir]

Widowmaker1981, on 16 June 2015 - 03:09 AM, said:

The problem with flamers is that their canon use is to overheat mechs, but a stunlock weapon cannot exist in an FPS. Making them good involves either:

a) Creating a functioning stunlock weapon, which would ruin the game imo.
or
Making flamers into another machine gun with a different graphic

I have no problem with flamers sucking, they dont have a place in this game imo.

Heat based weapons were hella-fun in MW4 :3 I had a Warhawk with 2 Inferno Heavy Rocket alaunchers, and 4 artillery beacon, dubbed 'Zippo'. Shut down enemy mech with the IHRLs, tag them with artillery beacon, and walk away. 5 seconds later, all but the most heavily armored mechs are dead.... Lol, a lot of people hated me for that one XD

But Inferno SRMs, and flamers were actually useful if you wete clever, and a ton of fun! A good counter against energy boats.

Edited by Twilight Fenrir, 16 June 2015 - 05:23 AM.

[Mitsuragi]

@PGI ...

I loved this patch until I read this...

InnerSphereNews, on 15 June 2015 - 04:27 PM, said:

• LTD Modules provided with certain Clan Wave 1 Packages can no longer be equipped onto Inner Sphere 'Mechs.
  
  • Any LTD Modules that you have equipped on an Inner Sphere 'Mech will be automatically un-equipped during the patch downtime.

Then I was like, "WTF PGI! Radar Deprivations are expensive and now I can't use one of mine on IS mechs?!" Why do you do random things like this when you otherwise are doing so much good. It's like rescuing a 3-legged dog from a fire and the punching a child in the face.

/sigh

[freud2b]

PLease !!!!!!!! Adapting windows to the screen in 2560X1440 resolution !!!!!
look like a ridiculously small windows !!! Please ! Please ! please ! please ! please !

[Tank]

Can't wait for the patch!


Spider damage fixes - about time! Now are the following mech are left: Firestarter, Storm Crow and Nova. Also please increase further delay of using Jump Jets, they shroud have 2 stage mode of function - launch and landing. These thing are needed to minimize hit-reg madness.

Edited by Tank, 16 June 2015 - 05:37 AM.

[process]

Mitsuragi, on 16 June 2015 - 05:25 AM, said:

@PGI ...

I loved this patch until I read this...

Then I was like, "WTF PGI! Radar Deprivations are expensive and now I can't use one of mine on IS mechs?!" Why do you do random things like this when you otherwise are doing so much good. It's like rescuing a 3-legged dog from a fire and the punching a child in the face.

/sigh

I believe the LTD modules are only these four:

SHOCK ABSORBANCE
SPEED RETENTION
ENHANCED NARC
AMS OVERLOAD

Edited by process, 16 June 2015 - 05:38 AM.

[Sevronis]

I was surprised to see they were removing the Adder's flamer as a fixed weapon, considerng every Adder in lore is supposed to have one. However, I'm rather fine with this change. Was tricky enough to judge the heat gen on certain builds with a flamer equipped.

[Widowmaker1981]

Twilight Fenrir, on 16 June 2015 - 05:23 AM, said:

Heat based weapons were hella-fun in MW4 :3 I had a Warhawk with 2 Inferno Heavy Rocket alaunchers, and 4 artillery beacon, dubbed 'Zippo'. Shut down enemy mech with the IHRLs, tag them with artillery beacon, and walk away. 5 seconds later, all but the most heavily armored mechs are dead.... Lol, a lot of people hated me for that one XD

But Inferno SRMs, and flamers were actually useful if you wete clever, and a ton of fun! A good counter against energy boats.

exactly my point.

Stunlock mechanics are great fun for the person using them, and absurdly frustrating for the target. I stand by my point that they have no place in a FPS.

[Bellum Dominum]

Sereglach, on 15 June 2015 - 06:17 PM, said:

I'd rejoice more if Flamers received their promised rework instead of just allowing them to be removed from Adders. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice move, and I do appreciate more building flexibility. I know that not everyone wants fixed weapon systems on mechs in ANY way.

WHAT PROMISED REWORK?
Can someone please show me a link to this? How is it flamers keep getting this rumor? Last check (admittedly it was a few months ago) flamers were confirmed to not be touched again.
Stop trying to get the devs to waste time on something that works wonderfully just the way it is. Just because it doesn't work the way a few of you want it to work, and you don't know how to use them as they are, does not mean they need any reworking. Let the devs work on things that actually need fixing like hit registration (been gone a few months but this does seem to be improved), matchmaker que-ing (ugh does Elo drop if you don't play for awhile?), making community warfare into something worthwhile to do such as actually making it so the unit that controls the planet is in charge of improving the planets defenses (a place to spend unit cbills on) instead of all these changes back and forth from buffing to nerfing the defenses in response the pendulum swing of whining (is this what you think you are accomplishing with flamers? I can only laugh and most likely not as loudly as the devs.).

[Twilight Fenrir]

Death Drow, on 16 June 2015 - 06:01 AM, said:

WHAT PROMISED REWORK?
Can someone please show me a link to this? How is it flamers keep getting this rumor? Last check (admittedly it was a few months ago) flamers were confirmed to not be touched again.
Stop trying to get the devs to waste time on something that works wonderfully just the way it is. Just because it doesn't work the way a few of you want it to work, and you don't know how to use them as they are, does not mean they need any reworking. Let the devs work on things that actually need fixing like hit registration (been gone a few months but this does seem to be improved), matchmaker que-ing (ugh does Elo drop if you don't play for awhile?), making community warfare into something worthwhile to do such as actually making it so the unit that controls the planet is in charge of improving the planets defenses (a place to spend unit cbills on) instead of all these changes back and forth from buffing to nerfing the defenses in response the pendulum swing of whining (is this what you think you are accomplishing with flamers? I can only laugh and most likely not as loudly as the devs.).

I am not being sarcastic in any way when I ask how they are at all useful? In what way do they work wonderfully?

I even tried boating 12 of them on a Nova for giggles... Still couldn't overheat a laserboat XD And I've been against Adders with just a flamer, firing away with my energy weapons with seemingly no extra heat.

To the best of my knowledge, flamers don't inflict any direct damage, and I'm not sure if they even inflict heat...

So, if they are useful in any way, please enlighten me :3

Edited by Twilight Fenrir, 16 June 2015 - 06:06 AM.

[Bellum Dominum]

Twilight Fenrir, on 16 June 2015 - 06:06 AM, said:

I am not being sarcastic in any way when I ask how they are at all useful? In what way do they work wonderfully?

I even tried boating 12 of them on a Nova for giggles... Still couldn't overheat a laserboat XD And I've been against Adders with just a flamer, firing away with my energy weapons with seemingly no extra heat.

To the best of my knowledge, flamers don't inflict any direct damage, and I'm not sure if they even inflict heat...

So, if they are useful in any way, please enlighten me :3

I've been using them for years. When they got the range increased and damage added back to them I about freaked. They inflict both damage and heat. I've even got a video here on the forums proving just that as well as showing one of the easiest no brains way to use flamers so they don't blow yourself up as well. I would hope you've heard of the two flamers of chain fire trick by now? Yeah i taught people that trick. I don't use it much because I don't need to but I have at least one mech that I use it on.

All I can say as far as your not being able to use them to effect is keep trying. Not everything is always obvious. If you really want some pointers on how to use them I'd be glad to help you out any time. Seriously though simply search my name in the forums and you should be able to find at least one of my videos.

*EDIT: Oh and btw only 4 or 6 at a time have any effect. More than that only adds more heat to yourself. I forget which it is (4 or 6) as I never use more than two on a mech unless I'm just being silly.*

Edited by Death Drow, 16 June 2015 - 06:32 AM.

[Nightmare1]

Nice to see MASC enter the game!

Flamer unlocks for the Adder? Oh yes! Perhaps there is hope that PGI may unlock other things now too!

How 'bout them engines PGI? Ever plan to let us really play MechWarrior with our chassis or are you going to make us stew a while longer?