77 replies to this topic

[Aresye]

Let this be a lesson to myself to never, ever buy another top tier pack ever again.

Where to start?

Okay, first off, this thing feels absolutely no different than the Gargoyle. Actually scratch that. This thing feels absolutely no different than the Gargoyle...when using MASC. MASC is what the mech should feel like at its baseline, but instead you've got mobility that feels like it's a "slight" improvement over the Dire Wolf (aka: none at all).

Yes, once it is fully Elited it will feel a little different, but I've leveled up over a hundred mechs. I KNOW it isn't THAT big of a difference, and I can sure tell you right now that even when this thing is Elited, it's going straight into the garage to collect dust next to the Gargoyle, because no amount of X2 efficiencies will change this thing from the sluggish, underpowered, low-slung garbage that it is.

That brings me to my next point. This thing has got to have the LOWEST arm weapons of any mech in the entire game. Which wouldn't be too big of an issue except for the fact that the majority of its meager armament is contained in those arms! It's pretty much confined to a single niche role: Poking around a corner on completely flat terrain................and that's it. Lord help you if you have a gentle rolling hill between you and the enemy, because your arm weapons CAN and WILL hit it, leaving you will no other options in the other 99% of situations but to crest your entire body on the center of a hill. A tactic that even a Dire Wolf would laugh at.

Thankfully I never got the Bog tonight. I shudder to even think of it.

Lastly, weapons...or the general lack of them. A whopping 12 tons of locked equipment ensures you can barely run the same loadouts as a Stormcrow. I think I have more space in a pack of gum.

Alright, completely serious time.

In order for a mech to be viable, it has to have the edge in at least one of these areas:
- Overall Firepower/Free Tons/Crits
- Hardpoint Placement
- Mobility

The Summoner is at least somewhat viable because it has mobility and semi-decent hardpoint placement, which makes up for its severe lack of overall firepower.

The Adder makes up for its mobility by having more firepower than most lights, combined with decent hardpoint placement.

The Nova makes up for its mobility and hardpoint placement by its gratuitous amount of energy hardpoints.

Get the picture?

At least the Gargoyle has mobility to make up for its other shortcomings (sort of). The Executioner has absolutely no edge in any of these areas, and MASC, while nice, just doesn't give it enough of a boost to make it viable. Not even going to count jump jets due to the nature of jump jets on assault mechs, so they may as well not even be there.

I can already tell this grind won't be worth it. I may as well GXP everything just to be done with it, so I can have more time playing with my Cauldron Borns before PGI decides to nerf them. At least that way I'll be able to enjoy something viable that isn't a Timberwolf or Stormcrow.

Oh yeah, and those CT hitbox magnets? It's like they didn't even try to do any form of quality control on this thing whatsoever.

Kudos to the artists though. It's a beautiful mech and cockpit design, which makes it all the more sad that I'll likely never touch these things again. It's nice to know at least some people over at PGI do their job well.

Edited by Aresye Kerensky, 17 June 2015 - 12:28 AM.

[Hit the Deck]

Aresye Kerensky, on 17 June 2015 - 12:25 AM, said:

Let this be a lesson to myself to never, ever buy another top tier pack ever again.
....

Even if it had this?

Edited by Hit the Deck, 17 June 2015 - 12:34 AM.

[bad arcade kitty]

his ct needs fixing imo, it's way too big (from watching streams, i obviously dont own him)

[Vellron2005]

Talk about a dissapointed customer...

Personally, I did not buy the wave3, but I have played with the new mechs in smurfy's and seen them in action.. I can say this.. the Ebon Jaguar is a Timberwolf post-nerf replacement mech without jumpjets.

It can do most of the things and carry most of the builds that the Timberwolf was nerfed for, possably justifying the nerf so PGI would force players to buy wave 3. Expecting PGI to nerf it in a month-or-so. Hope it stays the same and the Timberwolf nerf gets nullified.

The Executioner can carry lots of weapons on those low-slung arms, but it has better hitboxes than the direwolf and jump jets. Looks to be a great assoult mech on paper, comperable perhapse to the highlander.

Time will tell though.

[bad arcade kitty]

executioner looks as a worse gargoyle

[kapusta11]

Noob rant.

[Vellron2005]

Hit the Deck, on 17 June 2015 - 12:34 AM, said:

Even if it had this?

OMG what mech is that? I want one.. looks like a laser/energy build that's fast and very agile, and definately.. clan.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Vellron2005, on 17 June 2015 - 01:08 AM, said:

that's fast and very agile

It is a 90 ton Warhawk minus all the shortcomings of the Warhawk (like an entire side with locked DHS and low mounted weapons), and also has a jumping ECM variant because a Dire with JJs and ECM just wasn't enough (yes, there is one). Fast and agile though, not really (though compared to IS assaults it is).

That is the Blood Asp, which doesn't come around until 3060.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 17 June 2015 - 01:20 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Vellron2005, on 17 June 2015 - 01:08 AM, said:

OMG what mech is that? I want one.. looks like a laser/energy build that's fast and very agile, and definately.. clan.

Its the most optimized clan chassis in existence. The Blood Asp.

90 Tons, XL360, variants have optional JJs and ECM, up to 4 ballistics mounted at the very top of the mech. Endo steel but no FF. 42 tons of podspace. IF we ever get it i dont see any other clan assaults ever leaving the garage again.

[s0da72]

It's not surprising to see people disappointed with the Executioner. A lot of people dislike the Gargoyle for various reasons and this new mech is basically a slower version of the Gargoyle with jump jets. If you try a heavy caliber ballistic build you will most likely run out of ammo half way through the match. Go with a smaller caliber build for more ammo but now you basically have the same fire power as a medium mech plus have less maneuverability. So that leaves you with the boat as many lasers as possible build, which I can already do with my current Gargoyle, plus move at 81kph without MASC.

Edited by s0da72, 17 June 2015 - 01:40 AM.

[Paigan]

Aresye Kerensky, on 17 June 2015 - 12:25 AM, said:

[...]

Okay, first off, this thing feels absolutely no different than the Gargoyle. Actually scratch that. This thing feels absolutely no different than the Gargoyle...when using MASC. MASC is what the mech should feel like at its baseline, but instead you've got mobility that feels like it's a "slight" improvement over the Dire Wolf (aka: none at all).

[...]

Then you did it wrong.
That's the kind and diplomatic answer, all others would be very less ... kind.

I tested MASC extensively yesterday and it's main use is not to activate it and be a 80kph Mech for some time.
It's far better than that.
It's for short agility bursts.
You press it briefly and are almost instantly at max speed. Or stop almost instantly in case of deceleration.

What I did after a short phase of getting used to is:
- activate briefly to accelerate out of cover
- shoot
- activate to decelerate, accelerate reverse speed, get back into cover

If done right and properly timed (which I am still far away from), this can give the EXE the agility of a light mech.

If I read emotional whining like "mimimi hardly better than DWF mimimi", I mentally laugh my ass off out of pity.

Of course I didn't read any further than that because statements like that invalidate the whole post.


TL;DR: L2P MASC

Edited by Paigan, 17 June 2015 - 01:29 AM.

[Hit the Deck]

Well the Aspie (sorry for the lame joke!) would be excellent but it can never shield its CT with that design because the head always protrudes.

[Paigan]

Hit the Deck, on 17 June 2015 - 01:34 AM, said:

Well the Aspie (sorry for the lame joke!) [...]

I don't get it

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Widowmaker1981, on 17 June 2015 - 01:20 AM, said:

Its one of the most optimized clan omnimech in existence. The Blood Asp.

FTFY. The Cygnus and Hellstar are better optimized, but they are jihad timeline and battlemechs so I guess they don't count.

It's unfortunate, the Executioner could've been better optimized, but it had Ferro instead of Endo and suffered from too much hardwired equipment like a lot of the original Omnis.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 17 June 2015 - 03:32 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

WM Quicksilver, on 17 June 2015 - 03:31 AM, said:

FTFY. The Cygnus and Hellstar are better optimized, but they are jihad timeline and battlemechs so I guess they don't count.

It's unfortunate, the Executioner could've been better optimized, but it had Ferro instead of Endo and suffered from too much hardwired equipment like a lot of the original Omnis.

How are those two better optimised for MWO? They both run the same speed, sure, but they dont have the super high mounted ballistics and the Hellstar would be hardpoint starved with a max of 1E per arm, 1E per ST and 2E CT, Zero ballistic or missile ports and the Cygnus has low slung arm syndrome. Because they are 95 tonners with 380s instead of a 90 tonner with a 360 they have a whole extra 0.75 tons to play with.. (5 tons heavier, but engine weighs 4 tons more and ES structure weighs 0.25 tons more)

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Widowmaker1981, on 17 June 2015 - 04:04 AM, said:

How are those two better optimised for MWO? They both run the same speed, sure, but they dont have the super high mounted ballistics and the Hellstar would be hardpoint starved with a max of 1E per arm, 1E per ST and 2E CT, Zero ballistic or missile ports and the Cygnus has low slung arm syndrome. Because they are 95 tonners with 380s instead of a 90 tonner with a 360 they have a whole extra 0.75 tons to play with.. (5 tons heavier, but engine weighs 4 tons more and ES structure weighs 0.25 tons more)

I was talking about labrat aspects at max armor, they have the same free tonnage (of course you get one extra engine DHS and more armor with the 95 tonner), but since you brought it up. The Blood Asp has high mounts sure, but that means mounting Gauss in the side torsos, which would make it very fragile; at most you would be able to run one in the arm. It would be threatening sure, but I don't know about optimized.

Hellstar/Cygnus would possibly get hardpoint inflation but wouldn't necessarily need it considering they both have decent configurations to do some sort of laser/gauss vomit appropriately (4 LPL Wubstar and 4 ERML/2 Gauss Cygnus). Both would be better than the Warhawk and possibly the Asp, though I will admit the Cygnus does seem to suffer from seriously low arm mounts, but at least it would have some high mounts with the energy and doesn't have exploding torso syndrome.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Widowmaker1981, on 17 June 2015 - 04:04 AM, said:

How are those two better optimised for MWO? They both run the same speed, sure, but they dont have the super high mounted ballistics and the Hellstar would be hardpoint starved with a max of 1E per arm, 1E per ST and 2E CT, Zero ballistic or missile ports and the Cygnus has low slung arm syndrome. Because they are 95 tonners with 380s instead of a 90 tonner with a 360 they have a whole extra 0.75 tons to play with.. (5 tons heavier, but engine weighs 4 tons more and ES structure weighs 0.25 tons more)

WM Quicksilver, on 17 June 2015 - 06:17 AM, said:

I was talking about labrat aspects at max armor, they have the same free tonnage (of course you get one extra engine DHS and more armor with the 95 tonner), but since you brought it up. The Blood Asp has high mounts sure, but that means mounting Gauss in the side torsos, which would make it very fragile; at most you would be able to run one in the arm. It would be threatening sure, but I don't know about optimized.

Hellstar/Cygnus would possibly get hardpoint inflation but wouldn't necessarily need it considering they both have decent configurations to do some sort of laser/gauss vomit appropriately (4 LPL Wubstar and 4 ERML/2 Gauss Cygnus). Both would be better than the Warhawk and possibly the Asp, though I will admit the Cygnus does seem to suffer from seriously low arm mounts, but at least it would have some high mounts with the energy and doesn't have exploding torso syndrome.

The biggest thing about the Hellstar and Cygnus if ported over to MWO is that they are Battlemechs and not Omnimechs, so the possibility of harpoint inflation and a fully customizable mechlab.

[ACH75]

PGI racing in developing bad mechs sold at gold weight has really pissed me off...

[Hit the Deck]

ACH75, on 17 June 2015 - 06:37 AM, said:

PGI racing in developing bad mechs sold at gold weight has really pissed me off...

If I remember correctly, people DID ask for the Executioner. Ignoring that, its existence is valuable for testing MASC.

[Widowmaker1981]

WM Quicksilver, on 17 June 2015 - 06:17 AM, said:

I was talking about labrat aspects at max armor, they have the same free tonnage (of course you get one extra engine DHS and more armor with the 95 tonner), but since you brought it up. The Blood Asp has high mounts sure, but that means mounting Gauss in the side torsos, which would make it very fragile; at most you would be able to run one in the arm. It would be threatening sure, but I don't know about optimized.

Hellstar/Cygnus would possibly get hardpoint inflation but wouldn't necessarily need it considering they both have decent configurations to do some sort of laser/gauss vomit appropriately (4 LPL Wubstar and 4 ERML/2 Gauss Cygnus). Both would be better than the Warhawk and possibly the Asp, though I will admit the Cygnus does seem to suffer from seriously low arm mounts, but at least it would have some high mounts with the energy and doesn't have exploding torso syndrome.

Hardpoint locations are VASTLY more important than vulnerability caused by Gauss in STs, especially with the C-XL and the in built CASE. VASTLY. From what ive been able to see, nothing in this game will or could ever match the Asp.

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 17 June 2015 - 06:31 AM, said:

The biggest thing about the Hellstar and Cygnus if ported over to MWO is that they are Battlemechs and not Omnimechs, so the possibility of harpoint inflation and a fully customizable mechlab.

We WILL. NOT. GET. fully customisable clan battlemechs, obviously. The locked mechlab is not to balance out the omnipod system, its to balance out the TECH.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 17 June 2015 - 06:47 AM.