82 replies to this topic

[Shadey99]

I've been thinking about it and I think the problem I have with EBJs as missile boats is that to have 4 missiles hard points you need to take the C arms, which are 1M/1B. You become highly ammo dependent and can't use items like Tag.

So... A real missile boat with 40-80 missiles gets little to no backup weapons. Even 4xLRM10s means you can't go above UAC2/LB2X backups. Higher 4xALRM15s or 4xALRM20s means you get a pair of MGs as backup...

So... You probably want to mix some energy weapons with large Artemis aided LRM launchers... Except that it ends up kind weak and hot... In fact your best mix is probably large LRMs and MGs in the C arms and B or C side torsos with ERMLs or MPLs and as many DHS as you can stuff in with a CAP to counter ECM.

[Escef]

Shadey99, on 27 June 2015 - 08:27 AM, said:

I've been thinking about it and I think the problem I have with EBJs as missile boats is that to have 4 missiles hard points you need to take the C arms, which are 1M/1B. You become highly ammo dependent and can't use items like Tag.

So... A real missile boat with 40-80 missiles gets little to no backup weapons. Even 4xLRM10s means you can't go above UAC2/LB2X backups. Higher 4xALRM15s or 4xALRM20s means you get a pair of MGs as backup...

So... You probably want to mix some energy weapons with large Artemis aided LRM launchers... Except that it ends up kind weak and hot... In fact your best mix is probably large LRMs and MGs in the C arms and B or C side torsos with ERMLs or MPLs and as many DHS as you can stuff in with a CAP to counter ECM.

TAG is usually over rated on missile boats. It's a spotter's piece of equipment, not firesupport's. It's best on mid to close range fighters. NARC is better for lights, as it follows the common hit-and-fade mentality.

Anyway, you can take an EBJ C and pod in the A left torso and get 2xERLL, TAG, Active Probe, 3xLRM15, and 8 tons of LRM ammo, and still have full armor (plus, if you stack the energy hardpoints correctly, you can keep those ERLLs high up for peek and move shooting).

But I don't think many people bother with LRMs on the EBJ because the speed and mix of ballistic and energy hardpoints make it much better for brawling and skirmishing.

[Zookeeper Dan]

I'm running a prime with 2 ALRM15's, TAG, and a UAC20 in the right arm. I'm sure there are better builds but it's fun to have enemies run up on you thinking they have an easy LRM boat kill only to be met with an UAC20.

[Shadey99]

Escef, on 27 June 2015 - 08:59 AM, said:

TAG is usually over rated on missile boats. It's a spotter's piece of equipment, not firesupport's. It's best on mid to close range fighters.

I disagree. For mid-range ECM countering their is nothing better. BAP/CAP as well as counter ECM have stupidly short range for good LRM use. A LRM firesupport mech should be at mid range (400-500m) supporting the rest of the unit and needs to be able to pick it's own targets. If your farther back missiles take to long to reach their targets, have a much higher chance of being blocked, and it places you out of easy reach of the rest of your team (ie light fodder).

If I possibly can any LRM boat I make has Tag, if I can't get Tag I have BAP/CAP or ECM because they are better than nothing...

[Raso]

Shadey99, on 27 June 2015 - 03:59 PM, said:

I disagree. For mid-range ECM countering their is nothing better. BAP/CAP as well as counter ECM have stupidly short range for good LRM use. A LRM firesupport mech should be at mid range (400-500m) supporting the rest of the unit and needs to be able to pick it's own targets. If your farther back missiles take to long to reach their targets, have a much higher chance of being blocked, and it places you out of easy reach of the rest of your team (ie light fodder).

If I possibly can any LRM boat I make has Tag, if I can't get Tag I have BAP/CAP or ECM because they are better than nothing...

I agree about TAG. I use it on my Hunchback 4SP as I play it as a mid range fire support unit. It's also good when you're mobile as even if you can't get the tighter spread the quicker lock time helps you to shoot and scoot. It is my belief that if you are a mobile LRM platform TAG is an invaluable asset.

[Escef]

Shadey99, on 27 June 2015 - 03:59 PM, said:

I disagree. For mid-range ECM countering their is nothing better. BAP/CAP as well as counter ECM have stupidly short range for good LRM use. A LRM firesupport mech should be at mid range (400-500m) supporting the rest of the unit and needs to be able to pick it's own targets. If your farther back missiles take to long to reach their targets, have a much higher chance of being blocked, and it places you out of easy reach of the rest of your team (ie light fodder).

If I possibly can any LRM boat I make has Tag, if I can't get Tag I have BAP/CAP or ECM because they are better than nothing...

While it seems we agree upon optimum range, we still disagree on TAG. TAG requires Line of Sight, which most LRM-based mechs should avoid. LRMs do not generally fare well in confrontations with direct fire mechs, as most of them can easily get off a shot with most of their guns and scoot to cover before even the first volley of missiles hits.

[Raso]

Escef, on 27 June 2015 - 05:26 PM, said:

While it seems we agree upon optimum range, we still disagree on TAG. TAG requires Line of Sight, which most LRM-based mechs should avoid. LRMs do not generally fare well in confrontations with direct fire mechs, as most of them can easily get off a shot with most of their guns and scoot to cover before even the first volley of missiles hits.

See the thing with TAG is if you do end up in LoS you can use it to speed up your targeting before you return to cover. Also, when working as part of a group you can mitigate a portion of fire by positioning yourself inconspicuously. This is key as (unless they changed it behind my back) Artemis doesn't gain it's spread bonus unless you have LoS. Thus, if you bring Artemis you need to be a little more mobile and proactive. The more I think about it I actually think the Ebon Jaguar has the potential to be a powerful ALRM platform thanks to it's mobility, profile and hardpoints.

Edited by Raso, 27 June 2015 - 06:27 PM.

[Escef]

Raso, on 27 June 2015 - 06:24 PM, said:

See the thing with TAG is if you do end up in LoS you can use it to speed up your targeting before you return to cover. Also, when working as part of a group you can mitigate a portion of fire by positioning yourself inconspicuously. This is key as (unless they changed it behind my back) Artemis doesn't gain it's spread bonus unless you have LoS. Thus, if you bring Artemis you need to be a little more mobile and proactive. The more I think about it I actually think the Ebon Jaguar has the potential to be a powerful ALRM platform thanks to it's mobility, profile and hardpoints.

The EBJ as an LRM boat is interesting because it has a lot of potential to keep up with even the most dynamic, mobile battles. Most people seem to prefer LRM boats that are lucky if they can break 55 kph, which doesn't impress me. I've gotten good mileage out of a BLR-1S with a 340XL as an LRM boat (ALRM50 and 4xML), being able to break 70 with speed tweak is nice.

I'm still of the opinion, however, that TAG is for people that tend to get face-time, NARC is for hit'n'fade types, and UAVs are the best of the lot so long as no one looks up.

[bad arcade kitty]

Shadey99, on 27 June 2015 - 08:27 AM, said:

I've been thinking about it and I think the problem I have with EBJs as missile boats is that to have 4 missiles hard points you need to take the C arms, which are 1M/1B. You become highly ammo dependent and can't use items like Tag.

So... A real missile boat with 40-80 missiles gets little to no backup weapons. Even 4xLRM10s means you can't go above UAC2/LB2X backups. Higher 4xALRM15s or 4xALRM20s means you get a pair of MGs as backup...

So... You probably want to mix some energy weapons with large Artemis aided LRM launchers... Except that it ends up kind weak and hot... In fact your best mix is probably large LRMs and MGs in the C arms and B or C side torsos with ERMLs or MPLs and as many DHS as you can stuff in with a CAP to counter ECM.

i dunno, here is lrm-40 jager with artemis, 8.5 tons of ammo and vicious 4 med lasers as a back up
i personally dont like artemis and would better took more heat sinks instead
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f802fda082828ac

[EAP10]

This is my personal favorite build for the Ebon Jag.

http://goo.gl/z48jtv

The UAC10 gives you medium to long range capabilities, and the medium lasers give you medium rage firepower. For when the enemy comes close to you, you can use the 4 small pulses to wreak havoc on them. It has a lot of heat sinks as well so you don't have to worry about overheating. It is a fun build.

[Raso]

I've not used the UAC10 much. I plan on slapping 2 of those on one of my possible Ebon Jaguar builds. How do they stack up compared to, say, a CAC20?

[Escef]

Raso, on 28 June 2015 - 11:21 AM, said:

I've not used the UAC10 much. I plan on slapping 2 of those on one of my possible Ebon Jaguar builds. How do they stack up compared to, say, a CAC20?

So long as they don't jam, UAC10s are just straight up BEASTLY damage. Better range and velocity than 20 cannons as well.

[Krispy Fiend]

Hi Folks - first time posting. Used to play MW2 like a fiend back in the 90s, and started re-emerging into the universe again a few months ago after a 10 year plus absence .

So I got myself an Ebon Jag and been tinkering with all sorts of builds - mostly mid/long range support. Recently though, I've been experimenting with a brawler build. Not as much armor as I would like in a brawler, but I thought it would be fun to see what I could churn out. The first one I came up with was this: EBON JAGUAR EBJ-A . Had mixed results with it - the damage output was good, but ran a lot hotter then I would like.

So after some more tinkering, I decided to downgrade the LB20 for an LB10, and came up with this: EBON JAGUAR EBJ-A . Lost some overall firepower, but the Max DPS went up an extra 1.5 with the added double heatsinks. Looks pretty drool worthy and will experiment with it tonight.

Edited by Krispy Fiend, 29 June 2015 - 08:19 AM.

[PeeWrinkle]

I have had very little success with the Ebon Jaguar as a brawler myself. Which is odd because I usually excel at brawling. it seems all the twisting in the world doesn't prevent me from getting cored. I will say it did improve slightly after getting basics and double basics open, but I still die faster in this thing than any other mech I have.

I am probably doing something wrong, but couldn't figure it out so I gave up on it as a brawler and am just leveling the entire set as LRM boats. So I came up with this build. Works well until you run out of ammo, and you get a lot of tag bonuses. It levels them pretty quickly, but I find it terribly boring to play this way.

After I get one of them mastered I will go back and try brawling again and see if I load it out with modules if it will perform any better for me

[operatorZ]

2 Gauss 4 tons ammo

5 ER Small lasers

If you conserve your Gauss the ammo is sufficient, and when you run out or somebody rushes you 5 ER Smalls are a nice counterpoint.

[nartak]

3 UAC5 , 3ERML ... works just fine ( for me) ... once , I had 5 kills and about 900 damage in one game ...
Average , 450-500 damage , 1-2 kills .

cheers.

[The Blazer of Lasers]

Shadey99, on 27 June 2015 - 06:53 AM, said:

I'm not a fan of LRM builds on the Ebon Jaguars... Well they can technically be useful, the EBJ seems so much better in direct fire support, then lobbing lrms would achieve. I run a LRM40 Adder build (With 990 rounds of ammo), so it's not like I think LRMs are useless. I could maybe see a LRM40 (4xLRM10) build with heavy backup weapons may be useful, but it seems to low powered compared to the usefulness of a more direct fire loadout.

All that said... I've been playing with a new energy loadout and a few variations of it: Armored EBJ-B, Targeting EBJ-B, and MG EBJ-B. All three focus on their LPLs for shooting over small hills and should the enemy get cocky and charge they head straight into fire from 6 SPLs. With ~62 damage per alpha it will ruin someones day and against an XL design can in fact one shot it at less then 150m. It also runs fairly hot at max firing rate, but if given at least some time to cool down it has so far been pretty effective.

i just tried out an equivalent 6 spls + 2 lrgpls loadout on my timberwolf prime with the new high left torso energy mount and it Rekks. Its strangly heat efficient especially after I dropped a spls and added a heatsink. Fast reload time and high accuracy on the pulses are good for taking out lights and the large pulses are in high mounts. Best build ive used in a while.
Btw: the higher armor on the timberwolves and the jumpjets help a lot

[Chill Bill]

T Wolf (and Warhawk at 71 kph) make for better LRM Boat . . Same speed, additional laser backup options..

Edited by Chillbill, 16 July 2015 - 11:50 AM.

[Inveramsay]

six ERMLs, one gauss, four tonnes of ammo. Done

[Thorn Fidelis]

Stalking Jaguar Brutality
EBJ- C "Stalking Jaguar" "Fatality" (2x cUAC5, 4x cSRM 6's) (Artemis) Sustain DPS Version

Stalking Jaguar Fatality "Possible Best Ebon Jaguar Build"
EBJ-PRIME "Stalking Jaguar" "Brutality" (2x cUAC5, 4x cSPL, 2x cSRM 6's) Max DPS Version

Edited by Thorn Fidelis, 18 July 2015 - 09:22 PM.