68 replies to this topic

[Ted Wayz]

Last night watched a guy repeatedly firing his ERPPC and LRMs into rocks as he ducked in and out of cover. He and two others were about 500m away from the rest of us. When asked to move up he said, "We are providing fire support".

First, if the terrain were our enemy I might half agree. But sitting on the far end of the map is not fire support. Fire support needs to be able to move with the unit and stay within a reasonable distance. Why?

You are a dead duck if their lights find you. You will be too far away for the team to fall back to support you. If the rest of your team is engaged they won't take fire for 500m just to help you out. Stay within a couple 100m and tings could be different.

If your team pushes you will be too far back to support. And by the time you realize this either the battle will be over or they will be killed, because you couldn't support. With your team dead you are dead. Stay within a couple 100m and you can move with your team without being on the front line.

LRMs arm at 180m. If you stay at just past that range from your team your rain will be incredibly effective against enemy brawlers as your payload will reach just as the next one is ready. If your missiles have to travel 500 plus meters the other team can finish the job before your first payload hits.

TLDR, if you are immobile 500m away from your team you are not fire support.

Edited by Ted Wayz, 17 June 2015 - 04:27 PM.

[Moldur]

It's something people say when they combine their imagination with what they're doing in-game.

[bad arcade kitty]

it's called suppressing fire, baka (:

In military science, suppressive fire (commonly called covering fire) is "fire that degrades the performance of an enemy force below the level needed to fulfill their mission.

those pesky enemy mechs couldn't lift their heads

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 17 June 2015 - 05:01 PM.

[ccrider]

Ted Wayz, on 17 June 2015 - 04:25 PM, said:

Last night watched a guy repeatedly firing his ERPPC and LRMs into rocks as he ducked in and out of cover. He and two others were about 500m away from the rest of us. When asked to move up he said, "We are providing fire support".

First, if the terrain were our enemy I might half agree. But sitting on the far end of the map is not fire support. Fire support needs to be able to move with the unit and stay within a reasonable distance. Why?

You are a dead duck if their lights find you. You will be too far away for the team to fall back to support you. If the rest of your team is engaged they won't take fire for 500m just to help you out. Stay within a couple 100m and tings could be different.

If your team pushes you will be too far back to support. And by the time you realize this either the battle will be over or they will be killed, because you couldn't support. With your team dead you are dead. Stay within a couple 100m and you can move with your team without being on the front line.

LRMs arm at 180m. If you stay at just past that range from your team your rain will be incredibly effective against enemy brawlers as your payload will reach just as the next one is ready. If your missiles have to travel 500 plus meters the other team can finish the job before your first payload hits.

TLDR, if you are immobile 500m away from your team you are not fire support.

sometimes I torture myself by PUGging CW; if my team is going to get wiped, I nominate one guy as the dude who insulted my mom. As long as he dies, I win. Maybe the rocks said something rude to that guys mom?

[Scratx]

bad arcade kitty, on 17 June 2015 - 05:00 PM, said:

it's called suppressing fire, baka (:

In military science, suppressive fire (commonly called covering fire) is "fire that degrades the performance of an enemy force below the level needed to fulfill their mission.

That's far more effective when it's actually being shot at the enemy team or close enough. From the OP, I get the feeling that was not quite what was happening.

[Theodore42]

I agree with the OPs analysis.

Although everyone is going to have a different play style and its hard to know exactly how the battlefield was affected by the LRMs and PPCs. Maybe it was, in his estimation, keeping the enemies out of an area that would be tactically devastating to your team.

But as for me, up close and personal is best

[Moldur]

bad arcade kitty, on 17 June 2015 - 05:00 PM, said:

it's called suppressing fire, baka (:

In military science, suppressive fire (commonly called covering fire) is "fire that degrades the performance of an enemy force below the level needed to fulfill their mission.

those pesky enemy mechs couldn't lift their heads

Sure, but this isn't real-life and I could care less about the rounds that miss me in MWO.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

if i play fire support, i want to be away at a range where

srm don't hit me
i have enough time to dodge lrm
-//- PPC
i want to be out of range for medium pulse sometimes even medium lasers.


Of couse, it's always the other guys fault if the team is losing. Lucky if there's someone on my team with a different playstyle who i can blame after i died.

[bad arcade kitty]

>You are a dead duck if their lights find you. You will be too far away for the team to fall back to support you. If the rest of your team is engaged they won't take fire for 500m just to help you out.

not true btw
when i play a streakcrow i absolutely love when enemy lights attack our lrm boats (and i try to keep an eye at them), in a couple of seconds im in less than 360 meters and then lights die or flee if they are smart (most aren't)

[InspectorG]

My style of fire support:

In my Locusts/Cicadas/Xl400 Wubshee, peek-a-boo with pokes that i try to get enemy mechs to turn @90degrees away from the bulk of my team's fire. I may have to venture 500m or so on a flank but i try to either suppress/harass the slow/assaults by poking them. This distracts them from firing on my team. They either re-position or turn to fire on me, which either is usually beneficial.

Another way is to stay behind one of my assaults, @ 150m and peek from behind when the enemy is on cooldown.
This can turn into a firing line or i can sweep out to flank pressuring from about 90 degrees to my teammate's firing line.
This gives the enemy 2 fronts to worry about, if he turns to face me, i hide, and he exposes himself to my assault.
He focuses on the assault, i get free trades...or can work on another enemy.
Ideally i can place the targeted enemy between myself and another enemy minimizing return fire.

I can sweep back to the assault and protect him from those pesky lights that try to nibble on him.

I can also peek to draw enemy fire so my teammate can fire during the opponent's cooldown. Depends on terrain.

If im in a long range build, like my 5erll Warhawk/Stalker/ erllCicadaX5, i usually sit in the back 700-800m away from the enemy and poke. Mileage varies with maps.
I can poke ahead my assaults/blob to help clear stuff out.
I can flank about 30-45 degrees away from the enemy, crest, fire and shuffle back. Stay longer if im getting good trades and i dont feel an enemy light creeping on me.
High ground is great but the exposure is also great...beams advertise your position.
Any doubts, reposition.

[UrsusMorologus]

There's no good reason for being up front with LRMs or Gauss or ERPPC.

Being unable to aim is something else

[Chuanhao]

bad arcade kitty, on 17 June 2015 - 05:00 PM, said:

it's called suppressing fire, baka (:

In military science, suppressive fire (commonly called covering fire) is "fire that degrades the performance of an enemy force below the level needed to fulfill their mission.

those pesky enemy mechs couldn't lift their heads

It is one form to stick with the main group and to pour fire on the same target as the leading assault

But expanding from what Kitty has mentioned,

Another form would of fire support would be, while the bulk of your force are facing off against the enemy line, another smaller force providing Enfilade Suppressive Fire perpendicular to the enemy line, if done properly would be very effective, of course taking care not to ambushed by enemy flankers, or to go it alone.

The enemy is not sure where is your main force. The enemy force is not united in attacking either. Your force gets to pincer them. You improve your W/L ratio!

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Ted Wayz, on 17 June 2015 - 04:25 PM, said:

Last night watched a guy repeatedly firing his ERPPC and LRMs into rocks as he ducked in and out of cover. He and two others were about 500m away from the rest of us. When asked to move up he said, "We are providing fire support".

First, if the terrain were our enemy I might half agree. But sitting on the far end of the map is not fire support. Fire support needs to be able to move with the unit and stay within a reasonable distance. Why?

You are a dead duck if their lights find you. You will be too far away for the team to fall back to support you. If the rest of your team is engaged they won't take fire for 500m just to help you out. Stay within a couple 100m and tings could be different.

If your team pushes you will be too far back to support. And by the time you realize this either the battle will be over or they will be killed, because you couldn't support. With your team dead you are dead. Stay within a couple 100m and you can move with your team without being on the front line.

LRMs arm at 180m. If you stay at just past that range from your team your rain will be incredibly effective against enemy brawlers as your payload will reach just as the next one is ready. If your missiles have to travel 500 plus meters the other team can finish the job before your first payload hits.

TLDR, if you are immobile 500m away from your team you are not fire support.

Depends on what the team is doing. Also Fire Support mechs SHOULD in theory, have a dedicated group of Lights/Mediums [between 2-4] that are dedicated to chasing off those pesky harassing lights.

Idealy, if you want to utilze your 3 lance's in a way that's somewhat lore friendly, you run the following:

Lance 1: Heavy Recon: This consist's of aproximately 2 fast mediums and a light, often with a heavy included. The light mech should be something fast and ECM capable. The medium's are used to levy fire vs enemy lights, with the heavy there to combat enemy mediums and add to the overall lance's firepower.

Lance 2: Fire Support: THis consist's of 2heavy's 1Medium and 1 Light mech typically. Though can be edited to taste, the 2 heavy's are usually long range indirect fire mechs, Catapults, Mad Dogs, things of this nature. The medium and Light provide a screen vs enemy lights and mediums that attempt to harass the group. Fire Support Lance should expect reinforcement from Heavy Recon should things go south, and the builds of the mechs should be both Indirect fire support, and direct fire support.

Lance 3: Command/Assault lance. This is where you're 3 assaults are situated, as well as whatever mech remains undesignated [likely a light at this point]. These mechs should move together, and screen one another, while the Commander of said unit gives out orders or the like. These mechs are the big firepower obviously, and will be bringing up approximately the middle of the battlefield, with the Fire Support lance providing Direct and Indirect Fire support to help keep them protected.

This kind of unit composition of course, relies on more mixed mech loadout's than you typically see, and embraces mech roles as intended. such as the CN9 being the operating partner to the Treb and the like.

The problem is no one wants to play this way, and just wants to build to drop mechs as fast as possible, instead of using any form of real tactics. So you're right OP, the Deathball mentality will continue on and Fire Support should simply be part of the deathball.

Edited by Flash Frame, 17 June 2015 - 07:13 PM.

[Ted Wayz]

So I wish there was something tactical going on. But no there was not. Luckily our 9 > 12. I was one of the first to die on our team in a brawl, yet my 368 damage was > than the three fire supports 168, 62 and 48 damage.

And yes I wish maps were bigger. I wish even more the game rewarded playing a role properly. Until then in most cases the deathball is the most successful approach. People who overthink this game or play passively usually end up frustrated, dead, or both.

[Slepnir]

really depends on the situation. All of my fire support mech carry weapons for anti-light duty, so thats rarely a problem.

Fire support is somtimes supression through direct fire and sometimes like artillery meant to strip the target and make it easier for the units in front to make the kill.
being 800-1000m back is fine so long as you are aware of you surroundings and are in range to support the team.

2 examples, direct fire support in my warhawk I managed 1200 damage with 5 kills all from the back, sadly we didn't win that one, but I would have been far less effective in the front.

second I was in my founders cat on frozen down on the flat supporting indirect fire over the ridge, I ended up being the last guy left against 3, 1100m over open ground, none of them made it to me, that was a solid victory.

[El Bandito]

All mechs can do fire support, not just lurmers or dakkaers. It does cost 40K C-Bills though...

Edited by El Bandito, 17 June 2015 - 08:15 PM.

[cSand]

There is a possibility here

and this happened to me the other night

for w/e reason, the game was not showing part of the terrain in my path but was showing the mechs behind it, so I was happily blasting away thinking I was gonna ruin this guy who was conveniently standing in the open



but really I was blasting at a wall

[Madcap72]

fast Cat with lrm 5's and aaaalllll the sensors and modules make awesome fire support, with our without FO's.

With FO's?


Light up the band because the hate parade is coming through.

[bad arcade kitty]

fo?

[Madcap72]

cSand, on 17 June 2015 - 08:33 PM, said:

There is a possibility here

and this happened to me the other night

for w/e reason, the game was not showing part of the terrain in my path but was showing the mechs behind it, so I was happily blasting away thinking I was gonna ruin this guy who was conveniently standing in the open



but really I was blasting at a wall

Did that awhile back when I had no buildings, structures or other crap. blasting away at dudes and my buddy who was spectating "Are you mad at that apartment?"