119 replies to this topic

[Templar Dane]

Mechs in MWO have twice the armor per ton that they had in TT. Heck, many of the TT mechs didn't have maxed out armor...

It takes about twice as much ammo to bring down a mech. On some weapons we have 50% more ammo than TT, but we should have the full double.

------ TT - MWO - Suggested

SRM 90 - 100 - 180
LRM 120 - 180 - 240

AC5 20 - 30 - 40
AC20 5 - 7 - 10
Gauss 8 - 10 - 16


etc

Want to do something about the laser vomit meta? Buff the ammo-consuming weapons.

Unsuck the vanilla clan ACs. Oh sure ammo-swapping is lostech but can't you just copy/paste the code for IS ACs? And modules for them too, k thx.

Faster projectile speed and/or tighter clusters on the LBs.

Make SRM effects not look like ass. Include a checkbox for the computer-poor in the graphics settings.

Mech ******* rifles. They are in the time line, and would fill a gap in the IS AC line. Light/medium mechs with multiple ballistic slots could use mech rifles. They aren't exactly stellar but it's a niche that needs filled since we don't have light ACs yet.

Unsuck machine guns. They're a facehugging, staring at your opponent for 5 minutes, shitstorm of nerf darts at the moment. In TT they did the same damage as AC2s.......

Which reminds me, AC2s could use a bit of a buff in the heat department. Before they were nerfed they sort of had a use. They were high heat, but could put out some decent dakka. When ghost heat was introduced it's rate of fire was gutted. It's range was also nerfed......

Edited by lordtzar, 21 June 2015 - 07:05 AM.

[Vlad Striker]

7t of ammo total enough to complete round with success. 1ML = 1T of ammo etc.

[Alistair Winter]

Agreed. Not only is this part of the reason laservomit is so prevalent in CW, but it's also part of the reason why laservomit is so common overall. A ballistic weapon is a pretty huge investment to begin with, and when you need loads of ammo on top of that, it's often better to just use lasers and/or SRMs. Hell, I'd like to see the AC2 ammo per ton just doubled. I hardly ever see AC2s in this game.

I also think MG ammo needs to be increased. Even if you have 4 MGs, I think 0.5 tons or 1 ton of ammo should be enough. The combined weight of MGs and ammo is part of the reason people don't use them as much.

[Antares102]

+1
I support the idea of having the same ammo as armor increase.
This would also make laser vomit less necessary because ammo based weapons require less tonnage/slots to be efficient.

[Duvanor]

Your reasoning would only work if you want to roll dice for hit locations like in tabletop. Since the damage does not spread randomly in MW (unless you can not aim at all), you do not need an ammo increase of 100%. Only exceptions might be LRMs and streaks.

[Eyepop]

This is exactly how I would start with buffing ammo-dependent weapons to a competitive state with lasers. I'd be cautious suggesting buffs to gauss, though

[Armorine]

I support this completely though I think doubling the ammo might be much I fully support a 50% increase in ammo. If we had more ammo community warfare would see a lot more ballistic builds.

[Templar Dane]

Duvanor, on 21 June 2015 - 06:51 AM, said:

Your reasoning would only work if you want to roll dice for hit locations like in tabletop. Since the damage does not spread randomly in MW (unless you can not aim at all), you do not need an ammo increase of 100%. Only exceptions might be LRMs and streaks.

Opponents often torso twist, and sometimes you don't get the shot you want. Damage gets spread around......unless you're aimbotting.

Armorine, on 21 June 2015 - 07:04 AM, said:

I support this completely though I think doubling the ammo might be much I fully support a 50% increase in ammo. If we had more ammo community warfare would see a lot more ballistic builds.

A lot of weapons already have a 50% increase. The suggestion I am making is to double the tabletop values.

[Alistair Winter]

Not to mention it would make stock mechs more viable.

Especially the Clan ones, like the Summoner or Kit Fox, with their 1 ton of LBX ammo.

[OznerpaG]

at the bare minimum even out the ammo amounts so that a full ton of AC20 ammo is an even number so the half ton isn't less than half

3 rounds for a half ton? what the hell is that?

make each ton of ammo worth 200 damage like SRM ammo:

AC20 10 rnds/t
AC10 20 rnds/t
AC5 40 rnds/t
AC2 100 rnds/t

Gauss 14 rnds/t, or 13 rnds/t and 6 rnds/half ton since it's often used as an inert crit buffer (13.333 rnds for 200dmg)

LRM 200 rnds/t
SRM same 100 rnds/t

Edited by JagdFlanker, 21 June 2015 - 07:18 AM.

[STEF_]

NOPE.

MWO has double armor.
BUT MWO has also that freaking pinpoint damage aka instant convergence miracle.

At least now dakka pilots have to aim well and not to waste ammo.

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 21 June 2015 - 07:11 AM.

[Templar Dane]

Alistair Winter, on 21 June 2015 - 07:08 AM, said:

Not to mention it would make stock mechs more viable.

Especially the Clan ones, like the Summoner or Kit Fox, with their 1 ton of LBX ammo.

MDD prime would get a slight boost. It would still be a huge stinker though, with it's 2 tons of ammo, it's 2/3 armor and it's 7th layer of hell heat.

Stefka Kerensky, on 21 June 2015 - 07:10 AM, said:

NOPE.

MWO has double armor.
BUT MWO has also that freaking pinpoint damage aka instant convergence miracle.

At least now dakka pilots have to aim well and not to waste ammo.

Oh okay. Then lets talk about nerfing all energy weapons so as to at least try to maintain parity.

[Armorine]

Have the ac20s and 10s had their ammo increased. They're the ones I have the biggest problem with. If they've already been pushed 50% then I could completely accept going to much higher.

I have a hard time seeing some one oppose this idea. It won't lower ttk and it will move some of the laservomit off the field

[STEF_]

lordtzar, on 21 June 2015 - 07:12 AM, said:

Oh okay. Then lets talk about nerfing all energy weapons so as to at least try to maintain parity.

NOPE again!

Let's talk about solving the instant convergence/pinpoint damage.
That is the issue.

But, anyway, pgi will never want to solve it.
I wrote countless thread about that issue since 2012.....

[Y E O N N E]

Stefka Kerensky, on 21 June 2015 - 07:10 AM, said:

NOPE.

MWO has double armor.
BUT MWO has also that freaking pinpoint damage aka instant convergence miracle.

At least now dakka pilots have to aim well and not to waste ammo.

You still wouldn't see a lot of ballistics even with double ammo because you still wouldn't be able to bring anywhere near the same burst damage potential. All ballistics save Gauss and AC/20 are DPS weapons. They provide very good cyclic DPS at the expense of burst DPS.

[Templar Dane]

Stefka Kerensky, on 21 June 2015 - 07:23 AM, said:

NOPE again!

Let's talk about solving the instant convergence/pinpoint damage.
That is the issue.

But, anyway, pgi will never want to solve it.
I wrote countless thread about that issue since 2012.....

Getting that fixed is pretty much in the trash. My proposal would give what, 25% more ammo?

[Vlad Striker]

I have never exprience luck of ammo, 150 dmg/t is a good value in the game context. If you suffer of ammo shortage, I think, you must aim better Advance your hit rate to 60-70% and it will be ok. Ant don't forget to shoot from optimal distance.

Edited by Vlad Striker, 21 June 2015 - 07:52 AM.

[Simbacca]

No to ammo per ton increase.

Increasing the amount of ammo per ton will only create new problems - as now players can get away carrying less ammo tons (and critical slots) to allow mounting that extra large weapon. In effect we will be creating an alpha strike problem.

For all my ballistic carrying mechs I carry large quantities of ammo - but that is the trade off for their benefits.

Edited by Simbacca, 21 June 2015 - 08:05 AM.

[Andi Nagasia]

i support more ammo,

[Templar Dane]

Vlad Striker, on 21 June 2015 - 07:52 AM, said:

I have never exprience luck of ammo, 150 dmg/t is a good value in the game context. If you suffer of ammo shortage, I think, you must aim better Advance your hit rate to 60-70% and it will be ok. Ant don't forget to shoot from optimal distance.

Laser vomit is a plague. The only remedy is across-the-board laser nerfs to IS and clan lasers.

OR

Buffs to ballistic/missile weapons.