174 replies to this topic

[Wintersdark]

Johnny Z, on 24 June 2015 - 05:03 PM, said:

This isnt correct either. Sreak Crows can easily defeat many inner sphere mediums with little or no danger. This everyone knows. Streak Crows move at 110 kph and can even circle strafe slow inner sphere assault mechs to great effect. The claim they are only good against lights is totally false.

I have never, EVER lost against a streakboat in any reasonable one on one in any mech other than a light.

I play mediums a LOT, and my IS mediums are by far my favourites. The day I lose one on one in my HBK's (even my LRMing 4J), YLW, Shadowhawks, Wolverines, is the day I hang up my Medium hat.

"This everyone knows" Johnny, maybe you haven't noticed this, but what you think everyone knows and what everyone knows are very different things.

Seriously. with a Mad Dog, you get 4.0 dps, spread randomly over your target. The streakcrow gets 3.35. If you're losing to streakcrows (much better than streakdogs, due to the Crow's hitboxes) in an Assault mech that isn't already severely damaged, you are doing it wrong. REALLY wrong. Circle strafe all you like, Crows and Dogs aren't fast enough to stay out of even a Direwolf's firing arcs, let alone anything with some speed.

Quote

Again I dont know what a fair answer is about how it will be nerfed , but if I had to bet I would definetely bet they getting the nerf bat.

I doubt it. They were recently BUFFED. SSRM6's used to have a 7 second cooldown. Now it's 6.

---

The only reason to lose against a streakboat in a heavier medium (40, 45t mediums are a bit different) or bigger is because you were already severely damaged or you're just extremely bad. that's all there is to it.


The numbers are very simply here. All ignoring modules on both sides.

HBK 4G with AC20, 2ML can output 10dps, sustaining 7.5, all pinpoint. Vs. a Streakcrow pushing... 10 peak, 7.9 sustained.

A Large Laser WVR-6K. Also 9.5 DPS, sustaining 5.3 DPS with a simple non-optimized Standard engine build.

Even a Shadowhawk (certainly not a quirkmonster) with 3 LL's can push 6.6dps and sustain 4.5dps indefinitely. Pinpoint damage at that, and again, that's with a simple standard engine build thrown together in seconds in Li Song.

Against a streak boat, it's absolutely a DPS race, too. Their shots hit randomly, yours go where they're pointed. Just cut off it's legs, count of the second between their volleys. Even with modules and everything, you're still looking at roughly 5 seconds per volley, so you can be ready to twist and catch the majority of those volleys on your arms.

Editted for ridiculous wrongness, my bad.

Edited by Wintersdark, 24 June 2015 - 05:35 PM.

[masCh]

I was in that match with you.

It was streaks after streaks after streaks.

The clans are always behind ecm, and the IS has rarely brought an ecm. The only ECM in your wave can't protect the entire team, and the only ECM-capable mechs cannot stand against hordes of stormcrows, cauldron borns and madcats.

Wintersdark, on 24 June 2015 - 05:11 PM, said:

I have never, EVER lost against a streakboat in any reasonable one on one in any mech other than a light.

Yeah, I wish Clans fight 1v1s.

pbiggz, on 24 June 2015 - 05:01 PM, said:

streaks are fun and make you a boatload of money. They make you a boat load of money because they are about the most inefficient damage dealers short of LRMs. They. Hit. Everything. Where your lasers, PPCs, and ACs would only punch through one or two components and do much more serious damage faster because of it.

One streak boat : kills a light rather quickly
Six streak boats : kills all 12 of an InnerSphere wave.

[Deathlike]

I'd rather they rework the mechanic, especially if they are keeping the IS strictly to SSRM2s for a bit longer.

[bad arcade kitty]

masCh, on 24 June 2015 - 05:17 PM, said:

I was in that match with you.

It was streaks after streaks after streaks.

The clans are always behind ecm, and the IS has rarely brought an ecm. The only ECM in your wave can't protect the entire team, and the only ECM-capable mechs cannot stand against hordes of stormcrows, cauldron borns and madcats.



Yeah, I wish Clans fight 1v1s.




One streak boat : kills a light rather quickly
Six streak boats : kills all 12 of an InnerSphere wave.

it seems you were outplayed and outmaneuvered and of course blamed it on the enemy's 'superior' weapon

imo an ordinary direct fire weapon has a way higher chance to wipe a wave in cw unless it's a light rush (and even that it's due to broken light hit reg)

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 24 June 2015 - 05:27 PM.

[Wintersdark]

masCh, on 24 June 2015 - 05:17 PM, said:

I was in that match with you.

It was streaks after streaks after streaks.

The clans are always behind ecm, and the IS has rarely brought an ecm. The only ECM in your wave can't protect the entire team, and the only ECM-capable mechs cannot stand against hordes of stormcrows, cauldron borns and madcats.



Yeah, I wish Clans fight 1v1s.

Even numbers in this game. Are we talking about PUG matches, or CW matches, too? I hadn't seen anyone talk about CW thus far.

Quote

One streak boat : kills a light rather quickly
Six streak boats : kills all 12 of an InnerSphere wave.

IF! You've launched your light wave against a streak boat wave. On the other hand, if you've got an assault wave against a streak boat wave, you'll crush them easily. *shrugs* Streak boats are good against lights (but still a poor option if players are skilled, as regular SRM's or lasers are better against lights if you can aim).

bad arcade kitty, on 24 June 2015 - 05:26 PM, said:

it seems you were outplayed and outmaneuvered and of course blamed it on the enemy's 'superior' weapon

This.

"Oh my god! We took out 12 lights against a clearly-prepared force specifically equipped in that wave to fight lights and lost brutally!" Be less predictable.

[Johnny Z]

Wintersdark, on 24 June 2015 - 05:11 PM, said:

I have never, EVER lost against a streakboat in any reasonable one on one in any mech other than a light.

I play mediums a LOT, and my IS mediums are by far my favourites. The day I lose one on one in my HBK's (even my LRMing 4J), YLW, Shadowhawks, Wolverines, is the day I hang up my Medium hat.

"This everyone knows" Johnny, maybe you haven't noticed this, but what you think everyone knows and what everyone knows are very different things.

Seriously. with a Mad Dog, you get 4.0 dps, spread randomly over your target. The streakcrow gets 3.35. If you're losing to streakcrows (much better than streakdogs, due to the Crow's hitboxes) in an Assault mech that isn't already severely damaged, you are doing it wrong. REALLY wrong. Circle strafe all you like, Crows and Dogs aren't fast enough to stay out of even a Direwolf's firing arcs, let alone anything with some speed.


I doubt it. They were recently BUFFED. SSRM6's used to have a 7 second cooldown. Now it's 6.

---

The only reason to lose against a streakboat in a heavier medium (40, 45t mediums are a bit different) or bigger is because you were already severely damaged or you're just extremely bad. that's all there is to it.


The numbers are very simply here. All ignoring modules on both sides.

HBK 4G with AC20, 2ML can output 10dps, sustaining 7.5, all pinpoint. Vs. a Streakcrow pushing an awe inspiring 3.35.

A Large Laser WVR-6K. Also 9.5 DPS, sustaining 5.3 DPS with a simple non-optimized Standard engine build.

Even a Shadowhawk (certainly not a quirkmonster) with 3 LL's can push 6.6dps and sustain 4.5dps indefinitely. Pinpoint damage at that, and again, that's with a simple standard engine build thrown together in seconds in Li Song.

Against a streak boat, it's absolutely a DPS race, too. Their shots hit randomly, yours go where they're pointed. Just cut off it's legs, count of the second between their volleys. Even with modules and everything, you're still looking at roughly 5 seconds per volley, so you can be ready to twist and catch the majority of those volleys on your arms.

A Streak Crow is a stick figure moving at 110 kph with a 72 alpha that doesnt need to be aimed and always hits. The Streak Crow is easily the most OP mech in the game and is a safe bet CSSRM will be nerfed so keep on trolling.

I would be upset about your claims this easy mode mech is balanced, but you cant be serious and are having a bit of fun is obvious.

I await your reply about how balance sucks and asymetrical gameplay is where Mechwarrior should be going.

Edited by Johnny Z, 24 June 2015 - 05:31 PM.

[Ace Selin]

Johnny Z, on 24 June 2015 - 05:03 PM, said:

This isnt correct either. Sreak Crows can easily defeat many inner sphere mediums with little or no danger. This everyone knows. Streak Crows move at 110 kph and can even circle strafe slow inner sphere assault mechs to great effect. The claim they are only good against lights is totally false.

Again I dont know what a fair answer is about how CSSRM's will be nerfed , but if I had to bet I would definetely bet they are getting the nerf bat.

Agreed, im just waiting to see how these will be nerfed

[Monkey Lover]

How often do you see a mech with 1x6ssrm? Almost never . The problem is streaks suck unless they're boated. Boating is the problem.

They need to buff all streak damage then increase the ghost heat.

[masCh]

Wintersdark, on 24 June 2015 - 05:27 PM, said:

Even numbers in this game. Are we talking about PUG matches, or CW matches, too? I hadn't seen anyone talk about CW thus far.



IF! You've launched your light wave against a streak boat wave. On the other hand, if you've got an assault wave against a streak boat wave, you'll crush them easily. *shrugs* Streak boats are good against lights (but still a poor option if players are skilled, as regular SRM's or lasers are better against lights if you can aim).


This.

"Oh my god! We took out 12 lights against a clearly-prepared force specifically equipped in that wave to fight lights and lost brutally!" Be less predictable.

He's talking about CW. Nobody brings Streaks in Play Now game.

No, we didn't take 12 lights. How could we? We were a pug defence, notice my faction and notice the OP's faction. We couldn't mount an attack as a mix of factions.

We had the normal IS mechs.. Thunderbolts, Highlanders, Shadowhawks, Orions, etc. We were just obliterated when the clanners came with 6 streakcrows + 3 hellbringers + 3 others for 3 waves in a row.

And if I recall correctly (OP correct me) we were up 15 to 12 in the first wave. (or 12-9 if you count the attackers' wave because defense doesn't really have waves). Then came the waves and waves of streakboats.

Edited by masCh, 24 June 2015 - 05:37 PM.

[bad arcade kitty]

Johnny Z, on 24 June 2015 - 05:28 PM, said:

A Streak Crow is a stick figure moving at 110 kph with a 72 alpha that doesnt need to be aimed and always hits. The Streak Crow is easily the most OP mech in the game and is a safe bet CSSRM will be nerfed so keep on trolling.

johhny, at least get you numbers right, it's 107 kmh and 60 alpha
72 alpha it's streakdog and it's 89 kmh and a poor brawler, too hot too

also

>always hits

my stats on streaks 66.34% of them hit (did 277,177 damage btw)

[FupDup]

Monkey Lover, on 24 June 2015 - 05:32 PM, said:

How often do you see a mech with 1x6ssrm? Almost never . The problem is streaks suck unless they're boated. Boating is the problem.

They need to buff all streak damage then increase the ghost heat.

The lock-on mechanic as it stands pretty much negates the downside of Paranormal Heat. Normally, firing weapons in volleys or in a chain reduces your accuracy, but since lock-on missiles aim themselves, this means that chaining them has the same accuracy as alpha'ing them (you just need a bit more firing time).

The problem isn't the damage per missile, the problem is the targeting mechanic that doesn't rely on the user's aiming ability to hit specific body parts.

Edited by FupDup, 24 June 2015 - 05:37 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Johnny Z, on 24 June 2015 - 05:28 PM, said:

A Streak Crow is a stick figure moving at 110 kph with a 72 alpha that doesnt need to be aimed and always hits. The Streak Crow is easily the most OP mech in the game and is a safe bet CSSRM will be nerfed so keep on trolling.

I would be upset about your claims this easy mode mech is balance, but you cant be serious and are having a bit of fun is obvious.

No, I'm completely serious. See: math.

The Streak Crow being the most OP mech in the game? Are you freaking kidding me? It's outputting pretty standard DPS at best, and it's spreading that DPS everywhere. In what world is spread DPS better than equal pinpoint damage? Can you just not aim at all?

[bad arcade kitty]

masCh, on 24 June 2015 - 05:33 PM, said:

He's talking about CW. Nobody brings Streaks in Play Now game.

No, we didn't take 12 lights. How could we? We were a pug defence, notice my faction and notice the OP's faction. We couldn't mount an attack as a mix of factions.

We had the normal IS mechs.. Thunderbolts, Highlanders, Shadowhawks, Orions, etc. We were just obliterated when the clanners came with 6 streakcrows + 3 hellbringers + 3 others for 3 waves in a row.

because they played better
you lost to a weapon which is bad vs heavies and is of brawling range, lose on cw maps suited for sniper duels
i would like to see your reaction if you were stomped by a lurmboat heavy team, lol

[Wintersdark]

I see Streakcrows all the time. Rarely streakdogs, but honestly Mad Dogs are not particularly good mechs at the best of times.

I have still never, ever lost a 1v1 against one in anything but a light. Not ever. If it's the most OP mech in the game, am I just amazingly good? I don't think so. I'm experienced, but certainly not excellent at the game.

[Mawai]

Honestly, I've never really had that much of a problem with the clan streakboats. I see them relatively rarely. They have a ~300m maximum range and can easily be dodged by fast lights by running in and out of terrain. The missiles also target random structure elements so they end up doing damage over most of the mech. In addition, most IS heavies can rip a streak MadDog apart with focused fire long before the streaks will take them down. The streak crow is more of a threat with its much higher speed and maneuverability ... it can play hit and run with the streaks quite effectively but it also doesn't do that well in a stand up brawl due to the long cycle times.

[Wintersdark]

Ace Selin, on 24 June 2015 - 05:29 PM, said:

Agreed, im just waiting to see how these will be nerfed

If anything, they may just move them back to their prior stats with the 7 second cooldown, but the buff wasn't a particularly long time ago.


As to the streaks performance:



70% accuracy. That's NOT "always hits". It's better than other weapons, but it's not a garaunteed chunk of damage.


Ultimately, the Splatcrow is objectively better than the Streakcrow against everything but lights. (A)SRM6's, or even SRM4's are far better.

[Andi Nagasia]

Johnny Z, on 24 June 2015 - 05:28 PM, said:

A Streak Crow is a stick figure moving at 110 kph with a 72 alpha that doesnt need to be aimed and always hits. The Streak Crow is easily the most OP mech in the game and is a safe bet CSSRM will be nerfed so keep on trolling.

I would be upset about your claims this easy mode mech is balanced, but you cant be serious and are having a bit of fun is obvious.

I await your reply about how balance sucks and asymetrical gameplay is where Mechwarrior should be going.

so at 250m Range its only doing 10 damge to every Component(-1), every 6seconds,
(assuming you take 1ER-ML as a back up thats 700ammo(23shots)thats Clearly OP,

its not Like IS has a weapon, that can do 20PP-FLD, that only has a 4sec Cooldown,
for the same tonnage, same range, and have 49 shots(7Tons of AC20 Ammo),

Edit- Spelling

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 24 June 2015 - 05:45 PM.

[SoggyGorilla]

Yes, im talking about CW.

so here are the raw stats for the 6x6 streak dog.

DPS: 14.5
Alpha: 72
Range: 396m

Sustained Damage over 20 seconds (burst): 360
Seconds to overheat 20.1 seconds
Seconds to Cool:25.4 from 99% heat

cycle time (RoF) with mastery and modules: 4.98 s/shot

and i can put 900 rounds of ammo on it and a bap.

not sure why ******** people flocked to this post, but i am guessing anyone that already knew these stats would agree with me.

Edited by SoggyGorilla, 24 June 2015 - 05:52 PM.

[Johnny Z]

bad arcade kitty, on 24 June 2015 - 05:37 PM, said:

because they played better
you lost to a weapon which is bad vs heavies and is of brawling range, lose on cw maps suited for sniper duels
i would like to see your reaction if you were stomped by a lurmboat heavy team, lol

Very funny. Is it comedy day on the forums? The "its not the mech its the player" "you suck" "get good" has been going on since the day Omni mech were added to Mechwarrior Online. Now after many players quit and 1000 topics about OP Omni mechs these replies are still flying?

The balance is close finally but no one thinks the techs are balanced yet.

[masCh]

bad arcade kitty, on 24 June 2015 - 05:37 PM, said:

because they played better
you lost to a weapon which is bad vs heavies and is of brawling range, lose on cw maps suited for sniper duels
i would like to see your reaction if you were stomped by a lurmboat heavy team, lol

Of course they played better, with better tech.

You seem to be imagining a fight between two front lines. No, we were fighting a group of streakcrows near omega and another group of streakcrows killed us from behind, while 4 more of our mechs were on their way from spawnpoint and 4 more mechs of our mechs were waiting for respawn.. something like that.

Anyway, I wasn't complaining. I'm just giving perspective to what the OP posted. Because everybody thought he was talking about Play Now but its not that, streakcrows are nearly useless in the Play Now mode.