62 replies to this topic

[Jazzbandit1313]

Been reading through all these balance threads (some started by myself) and I finally had a great idea that just popped into my head.

Alright, so (correct me if im wrong) a gauss rifle is a series of superconducting magnets that are controlled super precisely and propel a pure *Nickle-Ferrous slug along a rail at blistering speeds. *thanks reign.

So, given the nature of the weapon, having superconducting magnets requires cooling of some sort. So this weapon requires a ridiculous amount of energy, even so much that it dims the lights when charging. There has to be some sort of reactor heat or output penalty for this.

For example, while holding the gauss charge down:

25% speed penalty
5 pnts heat generated per second
25% less damage output from energy weapons 5 seconds after firing.

Yeah, I know you TT purists will pounce on changing anything from how it should be (almost 0 heat for gauss), but we've beat this charge mechanic idea to death and there's no use trying to change it back to how it was.

Edited by Jazzbandit1313, 22 June 2015 - 08:10 AM.

[Eyepop]

Naw, the energy would be stored in a capacitor during the actual cooldown, just like with any of your other weapons.

[CDLord HHGD]

While I am a "TT purist" and don't really support a heat penalty (again, TT purist), I would support a "power consumption" penalty instead. That's kinda the "lore" description behind the whole not allowing more than two gauss rifles to fire at once anyways.

Personally, I'd remove the charge mechanic from the Gauss Rifle and implement a power capacity restriction that makes it so after a gauss is fired, no other energy weapons can be fired for 1.5 seconds. Fire two Gauss, 3 seconds. And Gauss would count as a weapon that needs energy for this mechanic. This would NOT affect other ballistic weapons (MG/AC) or missiles.

[Night Thastus]

Guass isn't unbalanced right now. I've both used and been hit by it, and I can safely say I don't mind it's current status.

[reign]

Its a nIckleFerros core not pure tungsten

Introduced in 2590 by theTerran Hegemony^[4], the Gauss Rifle utilizes a series of electromagnets to propel slugs of ferrous nickel-iron alloy at extremely high velocities

Edited by reign, 22 June 2015 - 08:08 AM.

[CDLord HHGD]

Eyepop, on 22 June 2015 - 08:05 AM, said:

Naw, the energy would be stored in a capacitor during the actual cooldown, just like with any of your other weapons.

There is a lore example for the power drain caused by the Gauss. Read it in Vlad's battle with Phelan (Vlad's Executioner).

[meteorol]

Jazzbandit1313, on 22 June 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

For example, while holding the gauss charge down:
25% speed penalty
5 pnts heat generated per second
25% less damage output from energy weapons 5 seconds after firing.

Sounds almost reasonable. Did Paul give you input on this by any chance? You might should consider adjusting those values a bit.

Edited by meteorol, 22 June 2015 - 08:12 AM.

[Koniks]

I wouldn't take it as a given that Gauss is out of balance to need that dramatic a nerf. Gauss sniping beyond mid-range isn't dominant on most of our maps. To the extent it's a problem, it's the damage from backup weapons at close and mid-range on a few mechs that causes problems. Along with its rate of fire. It also poses a problem for balance because making other weapons worse, particularly with heat, has a tendency to drive people to the cool, high damage alpha weapon.

But for the sake of argument, let's assume Gauss is currently a problem. The best nerf is dropping its DPS by significantly increasing its cooldown. That would make it less effective at engagements mid-range or closer. So what if it pushes Gauss mechs more towards alpha strikes? If they're happening less frequently and forcing those mechs into cover between shots, then DPS mechs can close on them.

[Jazzbandit1313]

meteorol, on 22 June 2015 - 08:11 AM, said:

Sounds almost reasonable. Did Paul give you input on this by any chance? You might should consider adjusting those values a bit.

Nah. I made a thread kinda like this a few months ago, but it was only the energy weapon nerf idea, so no one really cared.

[Khobai]

The biggest problem with Gauss IMO is the max range. In tabletop Gauss and LRMs are supposed to have the same max range.

But in MWO LRMs max out at 1000m (but honestly arnt very effective past 600m) while Gauss maxes out at 2178m with a range module. The range module doesnt help LRMs at all since it doesnt increase the abysmally slow missile speed.

I think Gauss max range need to be lowered to x2 optimal range to match suit with autocannons which also had their max ranges reduced to x2.

[L3mming2]

Jazzbandit1313, on 22 June 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

Been reading through all these balance threads (some started by myself) and I finally had a great idea that just popped into my head.

Alright, so (correct me if im wrong) a gauss rifle is a series of superconducting magnets that are controlled super precisely and propel a pure *Nickle-Ferrous slug along a rail at blistering speeds. *thanks reign.

So, given the nature of the weapon, having superconducting magnets requires cooling of some sort. So this weapon requires a ridiculous amount of energy, even so much that it dims the lights when charging. There has to be some sort of reactor heat or output penalty for this.

For example, while holding the gauss charge down:

25% speed penalty
5 pnts heat generated per second
25% less damage output from energy weapons 5 seconds after firing.

Yeah, I know you TT purists will pounce on changing anything from how it should be (almost 0 heat for gauss), but we've beat this charge mechanic idea to death and there's no use trying to change it back to how it was.

a gauss rifle dous exist .. its not realy magnets its coils around the barrel that create a powerfull magnetic field when a large current is run thru them this magnetic field propels the metal slug in the barrel

[reign]

L3mming2, on 22 June 2015 - 08:46 AM, said:

a gauss rifle dous exist .. its not realy magnets its coils around the barrel that create a powerfull magnetic field when a large current is run thru them this magnetic field propels the metal slug in the barrel

[Y E O N N E]

That's a railgun, not a coil gun.

[Revis Volek]

Jazzbandit1313, on 22 June 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

Been reading through all these balance threads (some started by myself) and I finally had a great idea that just popped into my head.

Alright, so (correct me if im wrong) a gauss rifle is a series of superconducting magnets that are controlled super precisely and propel a pure *Nickle-Ferrous slug along a rail at blistering speeds. *thanks reign.

So, given the nature of the weapon, having superconducting magnets requires cooling of some sort. So this weapon requires a ridiculous amount of energy, even so much that it dims the lights when charging. There has to be some sort of reactor heat or output penalty for this.

For example, while holding the gauss charge down:

25% speed penalty
5 pnts heat generated per second
25% less damage output from energy weapons 5 seconds after firing.

Yeah, I know you TT purists will pounce on changing anything from how it should be (almost 0 heat for gauss), but we've beat this charge mechanic idea to death and there's no use trying to change it back to how it was.

I dont think the gauss rifle is out of balance so, no.

I still dont get WHY people think we need these changes...you have yet to give a reason as to why?

I dont see gauss as OP.

[Mcgral18]

Change the Crit Dam Multiplier to half, as opposed to 1.0.

Make it worse at critting stuff, and avoid the cockpit 1 shotting because of the current 4.5 damage it gets from 2 crits. 2.25 wouldn't be enough to kill.


Also stops it from destroying weapons as easily, making it less risky for brawlers to move up (they'll still die...but they might die with weapons).



Not really significant, but it's easy for PGI to implement. Simply do the opposite of the Crit Weapons (2x and 9x crit damage).

[Jazzbandit1313]

DarthRevis, on 22 June 2015 - 09:09 AM, said:

I dont think the gauss rifle is out of balance so, no.

I still dont get WHY people think we need these changes...you have yet to give a reason as to why?

I dont see gauss as OP.

Gauss is a 0 heat, instant pinpoint 150damage. There are almost no negatives for using this weapon.

Some may say weight, crit chance, explosion effect.....but they don't outweigh how good this weapon is right now. Charge mechanic or not, its the most powerful ballistic.

Edited by Jazzbandit1313, 22 June 2015 - 09:17 AM.

[cSand]

Here's the simplest fix:

allow 1 gauss at a time to be charging, so you can charge 1, hold it, charge the 2nd, and then shoot both if you time it right.





COMMENCE HATING ON MY IDEA

Edited by cSand, 22 June 2015 - 09:23 AM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

First off, Gauss is NOT OP, not even close, otherwise we'd see EVERY single Mech capable of carrying one using one, and we straight up do NOT see that, we have NEVER seen that in the entire course of MWO to date. Between tonnage, size, charge up(which I happen to like now), and it's wonderful propensity for blowing the hell up if you so much as look at it wrong, it more than makes up for the 15 damage, 0 heat, long range.

cdlord, on 22 June 2015 - 08:07 AM, said:

There is a lore example for the power drain caused by the Gauss. Read it in Vlad's battle with Phelan (Vlad's Executioner).

Ok, new rule, if anyone uses a Stackpole novel to show how something is supposed to work in BTech, they should be whacked by the baliff. If you don't get the reference, Google Cheech and Chong Trippin in Court.

Sorry, but I am so sick and tired of people using Stackpole's bs as reasons, especially when his bs was so far off base as to be in an entirely different universe. Gauss weapons don't draw massive current from the reactor when you fire them, the capacitors are ALREADY charged and will start to recharge AFTER you fire, not when you pull the trigger. And they don't actually require massive amounts of power, that's the beauty of Gauss, less power required than a railgun, it's the timing that matters the most, not the power.

MWO has a 2 Gauss at a time limit for BALANCE that's it, Paul ADDED that limit to the game right before the Clan Wave I Mechs were added, remember? It didn't exist prior to that, charge up did, but not the 2 firing max at a time limit, and we DID have a Mech that could field 3 Gauss, no one ever complained about it though. Dire Wolf, which can handle 4, that was a concern, so they pre-empted the issue by setting the 2 at time firing limit. Nothing to do with lore, canon or fluff, purely Paul's balancing.

[Escef]

Jazz, how would you feel if I said I came up with a similar idea in 2013?

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Kristov Kerensky, on 22 June 2015 - 09:34 AM, said:

MWO has a 2 Gauss at a time limit for BALANCE that's it, Paul ADDED that limit to the game right before the Clan Wave I Mechs were added, remember? It didn't exist prior to that, charge up did, but not the 2 firing max at a time limit, and we DID have a Mech that could field 3 Gauss, no one ever complained about it though. Dire Wolf, which can handle 4, that was a concern, so they pre-empted the issue by setting the 2 at time firing limit. Nothing to do with lore, canon or fluff, purely Paul's balancing.

But the phract was a glass cannon jokebuild, stupidly underarmored and stupidly slow.

I don't see why we would need a nerf on guass, we already have the chargeup time which add's to the cooldown (i don't mind the charge up at all, a powerful weapon should have a higher skillcap) but i mind the cooldown extension. then again it's okay and useable.
I think the gauss is op in a lot of minds because it was pretty much the only flpd nonboatable ballisitc the clans had for a long time. And still it the only ballistic which can be easily paired with heatintensive clan lasers (in chance you don't know, even backup lasers are stupidly hot for clanmechs).

Personally, i think the gauss is one of the most balanced weapons in the game, it has stong points, it has weak points.