164 replies to this topic

[Wraith 1]

bad arcade kitty, on 25 June 2015 - 10:36 PM, said:

lolwhat

Doubling the quirks on the Oxide would give 21.6 maximum DPS. Due to weapon timings, a Direwolf would have 3.18 seconds after the first alpha lands to turn around.

A Gaussvomit Dire has 19.01 DPS before modules and fast fire, but I'm too lazy to do the calculations for those. Regardless, the Oxide would be more heat efficient.

[Nightshade24]

Deathlike, on 25 June 2015 - 10:15 PM, said:

Most of the IS needed those quirks. Some were overbuffed, but others are slightly better than before. The Dragons were not a serious mech anyways and needed a buff... whether the overdakkaing/overquirking is another matter, at least it gets actual play for being the glass cannon that it is.

So, I wouldn't be thinking it's straight powercreep as the better of the Clan mechs changed the overall landscape requiring such changes to all of the bad IS mechs (including the Lolcust). I'm not saying the worst of the Clan mechs don't need the quirks (Gargles still needs some love), but I wouldn't be giving such blanket statements when each mech involved in some quirk (Clan or IS) generally needed it (occasionally getting overquirked or underquirked or quirked improperly like the Atlas's arms) and still needs far more finer tuning.

Despite all of that, the Vindicator did get royally screwed on the quirkening, from staying generally from Tier 4/5 to Tier 3/4 (or no change at all in some cases, see the Vindicator-1X).

Even higher % of Clan mechs need quirks to compete with IS mechs, more now then ever due to over quirking.


1) sure, the dragon needed love before, but not to the point it makes any dakka mech of a medium or heavy weight class obselete from both IS and Clans besides 2 mechs and then do the same dakka as 95 to 100 ton mechs.

50% fire rate for AC 5 can be seen as....

A : doing firepower of 4 AC 5 while having 2.
B : 50% reduced weight of AC 5 (due to 1 AC 5 = 2 not quirked AC 5)
C : 2 UAC 5's with 100% jam chance being reduced

2) Locust did pretty decent earlier, I can safely say this as I have spent a lot of time with the locust since day 1.

Locust 1V and 3V have MG's and is a DPS mech mainly for SCOUTING, so obviously a scout will do less damage then a harraser like the E or the S.

This is a 20 ton mech and personally needed minor help to function, it did not need to do the firepower of a 35-40 ton mech and such.

Note: the locust 1V and 3V in my eye is seriously over quirked, I would like at least half those quirks nad give these two mechs Sensor quirks which were mentioned in town hall today.

3) Not all the mechs that got 50% quirks were bad.

Centurion D: it wasn't bad, at least for a centurion, it wasn't popular due to hardpoints. quirks could/ should be lowered for this thing for the same reason the Hunchback 4G and 4H had issues, the 4H can do anything the 4G can do but better hardpoint wise thus 4G was rare. now both mechs have different quirks and now the 4G is an AC 20 guy and the 4H is a AC 10 and more laser guy.
Simular should have been with centurion D and A however somehow someone had a good idea for a Ultra lBX 10 for it...

Huginn? it was 2 of the best locusts (at the time) put together and added jumpjets, I think even 25% generic missile quirk would be to much... I think 20% missile quirks, MG RoF quirks, and sensor quirks would help well.

Battlemaster 2C? this thing has no reason to have more armour then an atlas or a direwolf...

etc... There are many bad clan mechs out there that would have reasons for 75% quirks if these 50% ones are apparently justifiable (which I do not think and would not like any clan mechs with 50% quirks either)




4: kitfox, adder, mist lynx, nova, ice ferret, summoner, mad dog, hellbringer (- ECM), gargoyle, warhawk, and executioner...
at least my IS standards... all desperately need quirks.

Direwolf, Stormcrow (Ballistics / multi E arm hardpoints, ie the 4 or the 6), Timberwolf (mild M, and ballistic) would also need some love.


however as you notice above... most of these mechs are the Catapults, dragons, commandoes, and the atlas of the pre quirk IS... Look at the IS, before the quirks they had a good handful of mechs to compete and post quirks there is at least half competeting well with clans.






5: yea... jenner, vindicator, atlas, the other dragons, etc are all a bit disapointing quirk wise.

ironically the Vindicator is one of the MAJOR mechs in game that lore wise had a ppc specific quirk lore wise. this thing should be one of the best at least heat disspiation rate for the ppc and stuff. I do think some IS mechs need some help, but I would say reducing the 50% quirk mechs down is important.

[Nightshade24]

FupDup, on 25 June 2015 - 10:19 PM, said:

For medium omnis, the Huntsman is available. It would be a pretty decent competitor to the Doomcrow™. Advantages of JJs and 1 extra ton of pod space, with disadvantages of less speed and a little bit less armor (also potentially not as good of hitboxes).

For light omnis, there's the Fire Falcon. It's a pretty nice little 25 tonner, not quite up to Arctic Cheetah snuff but then again almost nothing is.

Complain to Russ, not me.

I am saying what's confirmed.

if you want to have more omnis before IIC's. then go talk to Russ.

I have no idea why you guys think I am the head of the "what mech should be next" department and have a say on this.


But anyway, Huntsman (which I rarely heard of and mistaken for the woodsman) is an interesting mech... however I do not really think we got another set of mechs to do a mech pack yet and the IIC's bring more unique stuff to the boards as well as nostelgia from the 3050 front lines and deffenders and such...

[Deathlike]

Nightshade24, on 25 June 2015 - 11:00 PM, said:

Even higher % of Clan mechs need quirks to compete with IS mechs, more now then ever due to over quirking.

That's not even accurate at all, so let me set the record straight.

Many of the Clan Mechs are terrible as currently constituted by the omnimech construction system. These things are not limited to, but include the following:

Terrible hardpoints (Mist Lynx-Prime is a waste, Summoner has the least effective # for what it has)
Low tonnage (through the lack of Endo/FF, or both on certain variants)
Hardlocked hardpoints due to rules (the Clan BAP on the Mist Lynx could be 1 DHS that it sorely needs)
Scale (Nova - same size as CB, Kitfox, Adder, Mist Lynx's arms)


Many of the variations have some bad combinations of those things, so as much as it's easy to put blanket statements, you can't truly do that. It's technically the same issue with some of the IS mechs (what does a Commando do these days that a Lolcust can't do?) So, you can't really lump them all in the same boat for the same reason. Even the Summoner could be better, but man all that tonnage is wasted on 5 tons of JJs.

Again, you can't blanket statement everything... there are different problems for different mechs and you can't really lump them all together and say they suck because of IS quirks. It doesn't work that way.

[Nightshade24]

Mcgral18, on 25 June 2015 - 10:41 PM, said:

He said he hadn't decided at that point; and there were plenty of Omni choices.


Lights had the Fire Falcon (no issues) and FireMoth (speed)

Meds had the Viper, Battle Cobra, Phantom, Pouncer, Hunstman, Black Lanner and Stooping Hawk.

Heavies had the Lupus, Linebacker, Crossbow and Night Gyr. Woodsman has 2 variants as well.

Heavies had the KingFisher, and 1 variant of the Turkina.




Just saying, lots of Omnis were available, and Russ had never confirmed IIC until tonight. You'll have to show me where it was confirmed previously.

I think the Feb 19th townhall was where he said IIC was confirmed or at least after clan wave III, it could be the next town hall meeting from there...

... if you haven't noticed. There was like a billion threads on that time on what Clan wave 4 will be and people assuming it's all IIC's, or which will be the IIC mechs.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Nightshade24, on 25 June 2015 - 11:00 PM, said:

... There are many bad clan mechs out there that would have reasons for 75% quirks if these 50% ones are apparently justifiable (which I do not think and would not like any clan mechs with 50% quirks either)

4: kitfox, adder, mist lynx, nova, ice ferret, summoner, mad dog, hellbringer (- ECM), gargoyle, warhawk, and executioner...
at least my IS standards... all desperately need quirks.

Direwolf, Stormcrow (Ballistics / multi E arm hardpoints, ie the 4 or the 6), Timberwolf (mild M, and ballistic) would also need some love.

Dude...

Adder is fine now. Many viable builds+ 3 high mounted hardpoints. Myst lynx is fine now. Nothing special, but a fun 25 mech that can show teeth sometimes. Ice Ferret is fine now. 142km/h little laser boat.

Are you playing these mechs at all? Didn't you notice they all received quirks some time ago? Small ones, but enough in most cases.
I refer only to those ones as I play them regularly.

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 25 June 2015 - 11:18 PM.

[Nightshade24]

Deathlike, on 25 June 2015 - 10:39 PM, said:

Those Grasshoppers need that major missile quirk!

Seriously, you're overblowing on the matter. The only missile quirked thing of craziness is the Hunchback-4J and that is actually not how you compare things (the Doomcrow is more than an LRM boat anyways).

Huginn is a bit out of wack, if you have piloted any IS mech with SRM's or even some mediums (btw especially an oxide pilot).

Hunchback?... for some reason that specificly doesn't rustle my jimmies however 30-35% would be better overall and then the cooldown module could do the rest.

Also if you read my posts earlier above (as mentioned earlier) the Stormcrow doesn't really need a missile quirk much at all.
However... the nova and ice ferret would be more to the level of the Hunchback 4J in desperateness.

FupDup, on 25 June 2015 - 10:38 PM, said:

I don't count Ze Quarkz as part of weapon balance, I count them as mech/chassis/variant balance (because that's where they're localized to).


I think you're grossly underestimating the impact of -0.2 spread brah!

I kinda do when all IS mechs in this case got the quirks for it unless they got no M hardpoint. we were specifically talking about the jenner oxide compared to jenner IIC.

[bad arcade kitty]

Deathlike, on 25 June 2015 - 10:39 PM, said:

Seriously, you're overblowing on the matter. The only missile quirked thing of craziness is the Hunchback-4J and that is actually not how you compare things (the Doomcrow is more than an LRM boat anyways).

huggin

also crow needs to pick way more than 2 lrm-10 to compete with hunch (3 lrm-15?) which means more heat, ghost heat etc
also clan lrms don't even shoot in compact salvos

[Nightshade24]

Prof RJ Gumby, on 25 June 2015 - 11:17 PM, said:

Dude...

Adder is fine now. Many viable builds+ 3 high mounted hardpoints. Myst lynx is fine now. Nothing special, but a fun 25 mech that can show teeth sometimes. Ice Ferret is fine now. 142km/h little laser boat.

Are you playing these mechs at all? Didn't you notice they all received quirks some time ago? Small ones, but enough in most cases.
I refer only to those ones as I play them regularly.

I do... and also....

Compare the ER PPC adder or the large laser adder to the Panther for eg... if we take the assumption skill level is equal.
Panther would win. Unless said skill level is so horid that the 2.5 damage spread of the er ppc for clans was an advantage...

On top of that: it doesn't have any quirk what so ever to make flamers more viable... kinda one of the most iconic weapons on that thing... literally on every adder... the savings grace for BT's work when infantry get in close or vehicles... etc.
That may not be much of an issue... buuuuuuuuut I would still preffer a stronger ER PPC quirk or give it a special quirk to remove the splash er ppc's for pinpoint or nearly pinpoint. ie 13 damage pinpoint and 1 spreads.

Adder using it's LRM options on 2M options or SRM's on 2M options isn't that strong... kinda makes me go back to my idea of omnipod set bonus providing quirks... another thing that was thrown around was a degrade point for quirks on some mechs....

back on topic:

Mist lynx... now lets compare the traditional sniper roll of the C for lasers... to the Locust...

3V:

ER large laser:
9 damage.
Range: 1012.5 (no modules).
Max range: 2025 (no modules).

Cl ER large laser for mist lynx C...
11 damage
Range: 740
max: 1480
(at approx 810 range, it does same or less damage then the 3V)

only quirk for the mist lynx C for the E weapons is 5% less heat for ER large laser.

which would add to...

ER large laser: 8
C ER large laser: 10 (pre quirk) 9.5 (post quirk)


Mist lynx thus in this situation will be unable to compete with a mech that is 5 tons less then it and is 39 kph faster-ish with the only advantage is jumpjets... oh and locust 3V has much less duration

Locust 1V? this is more about heat and fire rate of the er large laser by 50%

NERGY RANGE: 15.00 %

ER large laser...
Heat: 7.2
Fire rate: 1.625!!!!!!!
Durration: 0.625!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CL ER large laser...
Heat: 9.5
Fire rate: 3.25
Duration: 1.5

1V and 3V both out do the mist lynx C in snipping abilities...

Mist lynx C in lore: very good reconnaissance sniper, good range and damage for generic light standards, especially 25 tonner.

Locust 1V and 3V: generic cheap scout mech, not made for mech vs mech combat, is very short range....


Where did this tables turn around?




Also Ice ferret is relatively fine... however the cicada C for the simular role has a 50% velocity for the er ppc and other stronger quirks and this thing is as fast and durable as a ice ferret if not is faster while being nearly heat neutral...

At this view, Ice ferret would not mind much of a heat and velocity quirk (oh and removing a big chunk of velocity... targeting computer 7 can't even match that...)

Deathlike, on 25 June 2015 - 11:09 PM, said:

That's not even accurate at all, so let me set the record straight.

Many of the Clan Mechs are terrible as currently constituted by the omnimech construction system. These things are not limited to, but include the following:

Terrible hardpoints (Mist Lynx-Prime is a waste, Summoner has the least effective # for what it has)
Low tonnage (through the lack of Endo/FF, or both on certain variants)
Hardlocked hardpoints due to rules (the Clan BAP on the Mist Lynx could be 1 DHS that it sorely needs)
Scale (Nova - same size as CB, Kitfox, Adder, Mist Lynx's arms)


Many of the variations have some bad combinations of those things, so as much as it's easy to put blanket statements, you can't truly do that. It's technically the same issue with some of the IS mechs (what does a Commando do these days that a Lolcust can't do?) So, you can't really lump them all in the same boat for the same reason. Even the Summoner could be better, but man all that tonnage is wasted on 5 tons of JJs.

Again, you can't blanket statement everything... there are different problems for different mechs and you can't really lump them all together and say they suck because of IS quirks. It doesn't work that way.

if the person uses blanket statements, I will use blanket statements, and it's not just any blanket, but it's that high grade merino sheep blanket kinda stuff. With a cute little kitty design on the sides and it smells of lanvenders.

I fight fires with fires.

[Deathlike]

Nightshade24, on 25 June 2015 - 11:20 PM, said:

Huginn is a bit out of wack, if you have piloted any IS mech with SRM's or even some mediums (btw especially an oxide pilot).

I don't think it is, but then again I just bought it recently (for a match that isn't going to happen, so whatever).

I think people overfocus on the spam, instead of shooting its legs, which has always been a Raven weakness since the expansion of its leg boxes due to excessive whining.

Quote

Also if you read my posts earlier above (as mentioned earlier) the Stormcrow doesn't really need a missile quirk much at all.
However... the nova and ice ferret would be more to the level of the Hunchback 4J in desperateness.

I never mentioned that the Stormcrow needed positive quirks.

The Nova is not a missile boat of any sort, so you're wasting my time discussing it.

The Ice Ferret serves a totally different role than the Hunchback, and are not directly comparable in any way.

Quote

I kinda do when all IS mechs in this case got the quirks for it unless they got no M hardpoint. we were specifically talking about the jenner oxide compared to jenner IIC.

Blanket statements are woefully inaccurate more often than not, thus making this point is a wasted effort.

bad arcade kitty, on 25 June 2015 - 11:23 PM, said:

huggin

also crow needs to pick way more than 2 lrm-10 to compete with hunch (3 lrm-15?) which means more heat, ghost heat etc
also clan lrms don't even shoot in compact salvos

I don't use LRMs, so trying to compare missile boats is wrong.

HBK-4J typically runs dual LRM10s due to quirks (did you even check the quirks at all?)... occasionally with Artemis with a TAG head laser. Any other additional weapons is anyone's guess.

I've run Clan LRMs before and didn't have too many issues with it (other than LRMs being bad/inconsistent regardless of IS or Clan).

Nightshade24, on 25 June 2015 - 11:48 PM, said:

if the person uses blanket statements, I will use blanket statements, and it's not just any blanket, but it's that high grade merino sheep blanket kinda stuff. With a cute little kitty design on the sides and it smells of lanvenders.

I fight fires with fires.

I don't think you understand how discussion or debates work, and thus it doesn't help your position, regardless of the opinions stated.

[bad arcade kitty]

Deathlike, on 25 June 2015 - 11:50 PM, said:

HBK-4J typically runs dual LRM10s due to quirks (did you even check the quirks at all?)...

i do. that's why i said that a crow will need more launchers to compete with it

[Nightshade24]

Deathlike, on 25 June 2015 - 11:50 PM, said:

I don't think it is, but then again I just bought it recently (for a match that isn't going to happen, so whatever).

I think people overfocus on the spam, instead of shooting its legs, which has always been a Raven weakness since the expansion of its leg boxes due to excessive whining.




I never mentioned that the Stormcrow needed positive quirks.

The Nova is not a missile boat of any sort, so you're wasting my time discussing it.

The Ice Ferret serves a totally different role than the Hunchback, and are not directly comparable in any way.



Blanket statements are woefully inaccurate more often than not, thus making this point is a wasted effort.






I don't use LRMs, so trying to compare missile boats is wrong.

HBK-4J typically runs dual LRM10s due to quirks (did you even check the quirks at all?)... occasionally with Artemis with a TAG head laser. Any other additional weapons is anyone's guess.

I've run Clan LRMs before and didn't have too many issues with it (other than LRMs being bad/inconsistent regardless of IS or Clan).



I don't think you understand how discussion or debates work, and thus it doesn't help your position, regardless of the opinions stated.

Look to my earlier comment>

That and also I can say **** about the Nova using LRM's...

Quote

Alt. Config. D Intended as a fire support 'Mech, the D configuration has an LRM-20 launcher for long range direct and indirect fire support and an LB-X Autocannon/5 that allows it to work as a vehicle hunter and in an anti-aircraft role.

NVA-D

Unless you want the D(hahaa....) to be specifically added into the game to get any form of missile quirks even though the C also has missiles... then go ahead, but it has the same hardpoints as the C but no E hardpoint....

If you ask me, 2 x LRM 10 and 1 x LRM 20 are definitely a missile boat for simular tonnage nad same weight class mechs...
Same damage as well ...



Ice ferret? Both for there tech base are fast mechs that can lob LRM's over. lore wise at least. ofc directly it isn't that much but 3 x LRM 5 and 2 x LRM 10 without quirks is simular.... 5 less damage but the DPS makes up for that.

Would like a 25% fire rate for LRM 5's on that thing.

[Bleary]

Locust IIC. 25 tons, max engine cap, a minimum of 9 energy hardpoints. It will be hilarious.

[Nightshade24]

Note: did further research and the B is on the other arm and the M is in the arm, thus meaning if hte D is released you can have a twin missile nova...

[Mcgral18]

Nightshade24, on 26 June 2015 - 12:02 AM, said:

Note: did further research and the B is on the other arm and the M is in the arm, thus meaning if hte D is released you can have a twin missile nova...

Not if, when

[bad arcade kitty]

ter roshark nova when (:
she had a hand missile launcher

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Nightshade24, on 25 June 2015 - 11:48 PM, said:

I do... and also....

Compare the ER PPC adder or the large laser adder to the Panther for eg... if we take the assumption skill level is equal.
Panther would win. Unless said skill level is so horid that the 2.5 damage spread of the er ppc for clans was an advantage...

On top of that: it doesn't have any quirk what so ever to make flamers more viable... kinda one of the most iconic weapons on that thing... literally on every adder... the savings grace for BT's work when infantry get in close or vehicles... etc.
That may not be much of an issue... buuuuuuuuut I would still preffer a stronger ER PPC quirk or give it a special quirk to remove the splash er ppc's for pinpoint or nearly pinpoint. ie 13 damage pinpoint and 1 spreads.

Adder using it's LRM options on 2M options or SRM's on 2M options isn't that strong... kinda makes me go back to my idea of omnipod set bonus providing quirks... another thing that was thrown around was a degrade point for quirks on some mechs....

back on topic:

Mist lynx... now lets compare the traditional sniper roll of the C for lasers... to the Locust...

3V:

ER large laser:
9 damage.
Range: 1012.5 (no modules).
Max range: 2025 (no modules).

Cl ER large laser for mist lynx C...
11 damage
Range: 740
max: 1480
(at approx 810 range, it does same or less damage then the 3V)

only quirk for the mist lynx C for the E weapons is 5% less heat for ER large laser.

which would add to...

ER large laser: 8
C ER large laser: 10 (pre quirk) 9.5 (post quirk)

Mist lynx thus in this situation will be unable to compete with a mech that is 5 tons less then it and is 39 kph faster-ish with the only advantage is jumpjets... oh and locust 3V has much less duration

Locust 1V? this is more about heat and fire rate of the er large laser by 50%

NERGY RANGE: 15.00 %

ER large laser...
Heat: 7.2
Fire rate: 1.625!!!!!!!
Durration: 0.625!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CL ER large laser...
Heat: 9.5
Fire rate: 3.25
Duration: 1.5

1V and 3V both out do the mist lynx C in snipping abilities...

Mist lynx C in lore: very good reconnaissance sniper, good range and damage for generic light standards, especially 25 tonner.

Locust 1V and 3V: generic cheap scout mech, not made for mech vs mech combat, is very short range....

Where did this tables turn around?

Also Ice ferret is relatively fine... however the cicada C for the simular role has a 50% velocity for the er ppc and other stronger quirks and this thing is as fast and durable as a ice ferret if not is faster while being nearly heat neutral...

1. Very condition-dependant. If both perfectly fresh, maybe. Both ADR and PNT are decent with ppc's. You can disarm a panther much faster than the adder (one arm 2 ppcs vs two arms/side torsos). HSR would most probably decide on the winner.

2. SRM adder is strong. This thingie can hold 4xsrm6 + artemis. 48 points of quite nicely grouped alpha + nice shake on continuous fire. Ammo to do 1200 damage.
LRMS - dunno, don't use.

3. Myst lynx sucks as sniper. Whether we like it or not, in MWO he is much fitted for other roles.
Locust too. 1ERLL? 9damage alpha. ~9,25 you have those machineguns and shoot at point blank range. Laughable firepower. In addition, the max possible range of IS ERLL is 1500 meters. It's coded You can have +999% range quirk, you can do full damage at 1500m, at 1501m it will always be 0 damage.

4. Cicada C has very strong quirks for that single ppc it can hold. SINGLE PPC. No suprise it's so heat neutral. And so not-used-at-all. Because - guess what - 3C sucks
---
Btw. Cicada C is tier 4 on metamechs, IS tier list. Locusts you mentioned are tier 4 and 5. Clans don't even have tiers 4 and 5. Your examples for overquirking/IS advantage are mechs so terrible that they've been quirked insanely to stop being total trash, but they are still total trash...

[Nightshade24]

Mcgral18, on 26 June 2015 - 12:04 AM, said:

Not if, when

[bad arcade kitty]

i read it as 'please gib me poop'

sorry -____-

[Nightshade24]

Prof RJ Gumby, on 26 June 2015 - 01:26 AM, said:

1. Very condition-dependant. If both perfectly fresh, maybe. Both ADR and PNT are decent with ppc's. You can disarm a panther much faster than the adder (one arm 2 ppcs vs two arms/side torsos). HSR would most probably decide on the winner.

2. SRM adder is strong. This thingie can hold 4xsrm6 + artemis. 48 points of quite nicely grouped alpha + nice shake on continuous fire. Ammo to do 1200 damage.
LRMS - dunno, don't use.

3. Myst lynx sucks as sniper. Whether we like it or not, in MWO he is much fitted for other roles.
Locust too. 1ERLL? 9damage alpha. ~9,25 you have those machineguns and shoot at point blank range. Laughable firepower. In addition, the max possible range of IS ERLL is 1500 meters. It's coded You can have +999% range quirk, you can do full damage at 1500m, at 1501m it will always be 0 damage.

4. Cicada C has very strong quirks for that single ppc it can hold. SINGLE PPC. No suprise it's so heat neutral. And so not-used-at-all. Because - guess what - 3C sucks
---
Btw. Cicada C is tier 4 on metamechs, IS tier list. Locusts you mentioned are tier 4 and 5. Clans don't even have tiers 4 and 5. Your examples for overquirking/IS advantage are mechs so terrible that they've been quirked insanely to stop being total trash, but they are still total trash...

Metamechs is 1 guys opinion and is very situational.

The guy could put the Dragon 5N as the IS top tier mech and the Dragon 1N a T6 mech because it's "so ****" that T5 is not enough to describe it but it doesn't make it law.

I could say that, but it wouldn't be true.

Personally I do not think Metamechs is a valid source. It's too opinion based and that's what it was made for, it does good for it's task. But it's task is not to win forum wars and tried to be used as the bible.

Anyway, 1500 max range is still pretty insane and that isn't even the max range then for the locust, that's a 50% damage range, and the Fact the locust is a mech that out does the mist lynx as a sniper due to quirks is absurd, as without quirks the stats will fall to the mist lynx, and the mist lynx when put in clan vs clan battles (aka avoid of stupid quirks) does pretty well as a sniper.

ironically the range and damage advantage clans boasted in lore is not present in MW: O it seems... because IS lasers on mechs like the stalker and locust out do the snipping capabilities over the dedicated mist lynx C and such.

Also if you haven't noticed, the majority of Mist lynxes are built for range combat...

the prime being a missile boat...
the C being a laser sniper...
the D being a fire suppression sniper. ..
The E being a mixed range missile boat...
Z being a logn range fire support...

ofc the A and F are spotters and then we have a few rare close range mechs.

but the majority is long range.

The D only buff needed would be velocity and range (minors) and not a quirk: but to FORCE THAT DAMN UAC 2 / LBX 2 / AC 2 INTO THE "hand" area and not be that supid top moutned arm thing... seriously, it removes the hand by force for a ugly stump just to not put the gun there but instead on top....

The prime? Generic quirks... I think now is rather nice, just needs trimming on the MG-

I notice a patturn... in short: this is in need of a design pass as most of the weapons are larger then they should be... at least the box containing them for odd reasons... ...


Also they do not need over quirks to be not trash... I do not even consider them trash before hand, They were decent-ish, but not going to cary the team every time...

Ironic the Cicada 3C was my best mech when I started playing this game... it was my fave trail mech and before you newbies (huh... used that term for it's original meaning... new people) this was BEFORE champion versions were out... it was stock mechs, and the cicada 3C was my first mech to the 500 damage margin even after the first champs came in...

... however catapult champion put that up to 800 for my record which stayed there for nearly a year until my Battlemaster 1G got over 1000.