523 replies to this topic

[Kushko]

Solo for solo queue.

2-4man for group queue.

1-12man for CW and private matches.

Makes sense to me.

Would also love to see whos grouped with who in team stats to avoid feeling paranoid every time i/we get stomped.

Edited by Kushko, 26 June 2015 - 07:44 AM.

[Mystere]

Mudhutwarrior, on 26 June 2015 - 06:12 AM, said:

In pure numbers the group guys and 12 mans are the very distinct minority. I feel they have done more to hold the game back and drive new players away then any other part of the player base. This needs to be seriously considered moving forward especially since who was a part of the cheating bans and who they are watching now. It isn't the scubs or the steering wheel under hive . I think those involved here on the forums need to be closely watched as it follows a pattern.

Wow! You just used a very wide paint brush. Wow!

Some groupie must have really gotten your goat.

[Ngamok]

They should have just did what we asked them to do long ago. Have 3 queues; solo, 2-4/5, 6+ If his number are correct then the 2-4/5 queue will be hopping with players. Everyone who enjoys playing 6+ larger groups will be facing off against each other based on those percentages and two things will happen. Either they will enjoy fighting other larger groups or they will leave to play in the small group queue only. Then the larger groups will have what the old 8 man only queue was, a ghost town. This is why we can't have everything. So those 9+ groups just keep getting the pug lottery and smashing all the smaller teams.

[Zordicron]

Regardless of what has been said recently, IMO we will see little change in how the decisions for the game are handled. Russ won't change the grouping unless players are leaving because of it.

PGI has had this info since.... forever. Seriously, as if they have just discovered how many 12 mans there are? Get real. We have had a <1% crowd holding the ear of the lead dev for ages. nothing changed now, so far as I can tell.

- Recent "Esport" talk. really? the uber comp teams are insignificant, but we will push for ubercomp esports?

- CW, essentially designed for everyone, but with a total lack of seperation to keep the ubercomps out of puglandia. The praise was loud and long when they spilt group/solo. We put it right back in for CW, because the <1% wanted to do some clubbing. All they had to do was leave a planet or two available for only groups of 10 or more, or something similar, and the seperation would have been there. It was not, because Russ' tryhard pals needed some epeen pills. Yeah it sounds pretty blunt, but it's how I feel about that subject.

- Mech tiers, quirks- apparently the <1% were the go to for balance there. how bout those thunderbolt "trash" mechs. "lol Stalker 4N" Good thing we put those quirks where they are at, those mechs were total junk, and a little buff should put them right in the middle. Yup, thats how it worked out. GGClose tryhard mech tiers.

-New players. Our new player XP is terribad. How many new players do you think DL the game, and before logging in go looking for a tryhard unit to make a comp team? Now think about steam release in regards to the importance of <1%.

Look, i don;t want to exclude anyone. Some people love 12 man teams. Not really a big deal to make a spot for that, just make a game mode for it using existing game mechanics(maps, etc), add those "12 man only" planets to CW, etc. We had a 12 man only once. They complained there was nobody there. IMO, if it's less than 1% complaining they are a tiny minority.... yup, you sure are, deal with it. I mean, it's like sense of entitlement over 9000 to think the game should accomodate you.... no scratch that, be designed for you when you constitute essentially nothing of the playerbase.

I mean, is MWO trying to be the Ferrari of online games or something? Catering to the less than 1%? Too bad the industry, even genre of game, doesn't work that way.

[Johnny Z]

Kristov Kerensky, on 26 June 2015 - 07:19 AM, said:

You guys should LISTEN to the actual Town Hall, you've got some stuff all sorts of screwed up.

For starters, solo is the vast majority of the playerbase. Of the group que, 4 or less is the vast majority of the group que, 12 mans being 1% of the group que total.

This shows a number of things, some of which Russ even touched on.

1) 12 man stomps aren't anywhere near as common as people make out
2) large units make up a totally insignificant part of the playerbase
3) there aren't enough 12 man units in group que to get 12 mans facing 12 mans in the first place, factor in the fact that 1 will have Conquest and Assault and the other ONLY has Skirmish, perfect match otherwise, so no match is possible due to the mode choice.

Russ himself would like to see the non-CW group que limited to a max of 4 players per group, but he's not going to do it AT THIS TIME, but if the needs of the GAME make it necessary, it will happen.

12 mans will NOT be excluded from CW, that's not even an option. Removing them from the non-CW group que is a possibility since they DO have CW to drop in, Cease Fires however throws an issue in, but as Russ said, private matches could be done to fill that time.

CW will see changes this fall that make it more attractive to large units and everyone else, so the current boredom with CW may well change, we'll have to wait and see. Russ went over the CW changes in some detail, they sound interesting, but as with all things PGI, I'll reserve judgement until implementation. At that point, we could very well see 12 mans removed from the non-CW group que options.

There will be NOTHING except either the current grouping options outside of CW OR they will change to a 4 player max and that's it, no 5-12 or any variations thereof, because, per Russ and as experience has shown us, any group over 4 immediately causes the whining to commence, and the volume of the whining has NO direct relationship to the actual data.
So Russ won't even consider anything else, it's not worth it.

Fact : 12 mans aren't even a single percentage of the total playerbase, and only 1% of the group playerbase.

All those saying otherwise are simply unaware of the reality, try to educate them on it, and when that fails, ignore them, as they literally do not make up enough of the total playerbase to even be a consideration.

Sad but true, this game is designed from the ground up for teams, but the vast majority play it solo. This won't change when it goes to Steam either, so don't get all hopeful on that account.

As for why CW was done when large groups are not even a fraction of the playerbase, hey, did it EVER occur to you that maybe CW isn't JUST for large groups? It was designed for EVERYONE to play, it is actually supposed to be THE game mode of MWO, what we do now in the non-CW ques was SUPPOSED to be a placeholder until CW was up and running, and it was to remain as something to do for those who wanted a break from CW. Guess you folks missed that in the past 4 years of discussions by PGI about how the game was meant to be?

CW is the Clan Invasion, rather the centerpoint of the entire MWO experience, the Clans versus the great Houses and Mercs of the Inner Sphere, straight from the BTech lore and canon. Solo, small group, large group, it is supposed to be THE thing we're here to experience.

Not this bs TDM over and over with 23 other random people for nothing but some xp and cbills that we've been stuck with for 3 years now. Do try and remember that, ok?

Well said.

[Mystere]

I Zeratul I, on 26 June 2015 - 06:30 AM, said:

I like 12 mans.

They make things challenging and interesting.

If you ever wondered how you would fare against the borg in star trek or a sith lord in star wars. You have only to face a skilled 12 man team while pugging in the CW queue.

12 mans are the final boss in this game. Final boss doesn't need nerfing.

I play only solo and I still approve of this message.

Besides, I have a fine collection of limbs taken from those same 12-mans. <maniacal >

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Boris The Spider, on 26 June 2015 - 07:28 AM, said:

Kind of goes back to what I have been saying since open-beta. The way to stop comps wrecking pubbies is to offer better rewards for higher level game play.

You could ban 12 man groups and there would still be pugs in the solo queue suffering 20 game losing streaks. Even in a 4 man group queue -- there will be mismatches and stomps. Eliminating 12 mans from the equation doesn't necessarily even the gap in skill to a point where people feel like they have 50/50 odds of winning every game.

It might be said the main issue isn't the size of groups, its the average gap of experience/skill. Some 12 man groups have a much higher experience/skill level than the team they're facing. That isn't likely to change anytime soon. Even in the solo queue there are plenty of 12-0 stomps.

The solution to a gap disparity in experience/skill isn't necessarily to make skilled players suffer.

Its to introduce tutorials and features than even the playing field and help the less skilled player demographic to improve.

Balancing matches could be pointless to discuss as long as sync dropping exists.

You could ban 12 mans from the queue & they could still sync drop in 3 x 4 mans. Nothing would change.

The idea people have where they pretend all 12 man groups are elite killing machines isn't an accurate stereotype. I have seen some 12 mans who looked as if they were composed 80% or more of new players.

I don't know where people get the idea that teams will spontaneously become balanced if 12 mans are removed from the equation. But I definitely think it isn't true.

[Johnny Z]

Eldagore, on 26 June 2015 - 07:50 AM, said:

Regardless of what has been said recently, IMO we will see little change in how the decisions for the game are handled. Russ won't change the grouping unless players are leaving because of it.

PGI has had this info since.... forever. Seriously, as if they have just discovered how many 12 mans there are? Get real. We have had a &lt;1% crowd holding the ear of the lead dev for ages. nothing changed now, so far as I can tell.

- Recent &quot;Esport&quot; talk. really? the uber comp teams are insignificant, but we will push for ubercomp esports?

- CW, essentially designed for everyone, but with a total lack of seperation to keep the ubercomps out of puglandia. The praise was loud and long when they spilt group/solo. We put it right back in for CW, because the &lt;1% wanted to do some clubbing. All they had to do was leave a planet or two available for only groups of 10 or more, or something similar, and the seperation would have been there. It was not, because Russ' tryhard pals needed some epeen pills. Yeah it sounds pretty blunt, but it's how I feel about that subject.

- Mech tiers, quirks- apparently the &lt;1% were the go to for balance there. how bout those thunderbolt &quot;trash&quot; mechs. &quot;lol Stalker 4N&quot; Good thing we put those quirks where they are at, those mechs were total junk, and a little buff should put them right in the middle. Yup, thats how it worked out. GGClose tryhard mech tiers.

-New players. Our new player XP is terribad. How many new players do you think DL the game, and before logging in go looking for a tryhard unit to make a comp team? Now think about steam release in regards to the importance of &lt;1%.

Look, i don;t want to exclude anyone. Some people love 12 man teams. Not really a big deal to make a spot for that, just make a game mode for it using existing game mechanics(maps, etc), add those &quot;12 man only&quot; planets to CW, etc. We had a 12 man only once. They complained there was nobody there. IMO, if it's less than 1% complaining they are a tiny minority.... yup, you sure are, deal with it. I mean, it's like sense of entitlement over 9000 to think the game should accomodate you.... no scratch that, be designed for you when you constitute essentially nothing of the playerbase.

I mean, is MWO trying to be the Ferrari of online games or something? Catering to the less than 1%? Too bad the industry, even genre of game, doesn't work that way.

Once the tutorial is added the entire situation for new players is improved and all queues will improve at least a bit. Any other improvements to the NPE everyone is chatting about will also help.

The Star map having challenges like 12 man premade teams isnt a bad thing. Once balance is better and everything else taken into account the situation wont be nearly as bad as before in any way.

Had to add this yet again, newbie players should be warned to be preped for some hard core battle before they go onto the Galaxy map. That sort of thing would help alot, even for the regular queues or Solaris if that is ever added. Should have been in yesterday.

A 12 man team working their way to the top of each House and Clan is awsome, like really awsome for those teams. Maybe 2 rival guilds fighting it out trying to out do each other with advances on the Galaxy map to take a lead position in a given faction etc. Great stuff for guilds/units.

Making something to strive for, for lance sized groups and solo players would also be cool.

Edited by Johnny Z, 26 June 2015 - 08:10 AM.

[Triordinant]

TWIAFU, on 26 June 2015 - 06:19 AM, said:

You can cut the English sh*t right now.

Right. And you want to limit group size because some 7% only play in larger groups going back to when we could only play in groups of 4. Remember that? How much people HATED not being able to play with friends? Having to choose who to leave behind.

I'm telling you that you can't understand English because I NEVER said I wanted to limit group size and you STILL keep saying that I did. Either you can't understand English or you can't understand anything.

[Lugh]

Kushko, on 26 June 2015 - 07:44 AM, said:

Solo for solo queue.

2-4man for group queue.

1-12man for CW and private matches.

Makes sense to me.

Would also love to see whos grouped with who in team stats to avoid feeling paranoid every time i/we get stomped.

So wait, you can't tell by the unit tags who's grouped with who? *boggle*

[Imperius]

When me and my friends match up we start with about 3 then slowly build. We get faced with 12 mans and sometimes we lose, but we also do win.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP BEATING THIS DEAD HORSE AND ACCEPT YOU JUST GET OUTPLAYED!!!!

[Vxheous]

Eldagore, on 26 June 2015 - 07:50 AM, said:

- CW, essentially designed for everyone, but with a total lack of seperation to keep the ubercomps out of puglandia. The praise was loud and long when they spilt group/solo. We put it right back in for CW, because the <1% wanted to do some clubbing. All they had to do was leave a planet or two available for only groups of 10 or more, or something similar, and the seperation would have been there. It was not, because Russ' tryhard pals needed some epeen pills. Yeah it sounds pretty blunt, but it's how I feel about that subject.

Look, i don;t want to exclude anyone. Some people love 12 man teams. Not really a big deal to make a spot for that, just make a game mode for it using existing game mechanics(maps, etc), add those "12 man only" planets to CW, etc. We had a 12 man only once. They complained there was nobody there. IMO, if it's less than 1% complaining they are a tiny minority.... yup, you sure are, deal with it. I mean, it's like sense of entitlement over 9000 to think the game should accomodate you.... no scratch that, be designed for you when you constitute essentially nothing of the playerbase.

I mean, is MWO trying to be the Ferrari of online games or something? Catering to the less than 1%? Too bad the industry, even genre of game, doesn't work that way.

The bulk of the Ubercomps, like Lords, EmP, SJR, do not play CW (they may have solo players from those units that will drop in CW, but that is about it) If you are complaining about 228, QQ, -MS-, and groups like those, I can guarantee that groups of 4-6 players from those units will still hard carry games and ROFLstomp you in CW, because all it really takes is 4-6 good players with good positioning/good mech builds/good aim to carry CW matches.

The rest of your points have merit though, I give you that.

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 26 June 2015 - 08:15 AM.

[Mystere]

Imperius, on 26 June 2015 - 08:13 AM, said:

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP BEATING THIS DEAD HORSE AND ACCEPT YOU JUST GET OUTPLAYED!!!!

[Lugh]

Imperius, on 26 June 2015 - 08:13 AM, said:

When me and my friends match up we start with about 3 then slowly build. We get faced with 12 mans and sometimes we lose, but we also do win.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP BEATING THIS DEAD HORSE AND ACCEPT YOU JUST GET OUTPLAYED!!!!

And then LEARN from it. A couple times a night we get matched against the same teams we saw at other times that night. Sometimes we win, sometimes we lose and against the best comp teams when it goes from 1-12 to 8-12 in that same night you know your play improved in that second game.

Sadly most people are TERRIBLE judges of their own skill level, either vastly overestimating it(most of them) or vastly underestimating it(more rare).

[Kristov Kerensky]

Lugh, on 26 June 2015 - 08:06 AM, said:

So wait, you can't tell by the unit tags who's grouped with who? *boggle*

If you aren't in the group que, tags mean nothing but that you've got some members of the same unit who randomly got tossed in the game together, usually on opposite teams. However we have people like MudHut who swears THIS is do to sync dropping and entire teams are doing it to pugstomp in the solo que. This is something some people actually believe is happening, they probably also believe in things like unicorns and straight men with feelings and good fashion sense too, so keep that in mind

In the group que, you see people with the same tag, odds are they dropped together, so like you, I'm not really sure wtbf Kushko is talking about here. Maybe he believes that groups are syncing for solo que?

[Weeny Machine]

kesmai, on 25 June 2015 - 11:43 PM, said:

It is called solaris. We need that. Including the fact that a player on solaris is not availabe for cw. Infact the solo and group queue should be eliminated and solaris arena play should be done instead. For real warfare there would be cw. So either pLAy cw or arena with a few days to switch between those modes.

Why should the solo queue eliminated? It is something totally different from Solaris. If that should happen, then I won't touch this game anymore. This game reeks of arena-esque gameplay - not Battletech warfare. Being forced even more in this kind of crappy arena mode won't be acceptable for me. And I dare to say that I won't be the only one

Edited by Bush Hopper, 26 June 2015 - 08:52 AM.

[Piney II]

I don't see PGI eliminating the solo queue. The game would die outright and very quickly.

[Revis Volek]

If this game was more fun, had more to it and was just allaround more enjoyable you would see those numbers go up.

When CW was in Beta 1 and we were having fun we had 2-5 12 mans in out TS a day....so i think Russ is seeing thse numbers on a game thats dying on the vine.

Bring a better game and the groups will come...but we already had 4 man groups only and it sucked...could not play with that 5th unit mate or friend. Couldnt have 2 4's of the same unit play together....its sucked and everyone knows it sucked and it was changed.

If he goes back to 4 man groups only after changing it almost a year ago i will loose my ****....

This 2 step forward 9 steps back ******** has got to stop....

[CDLord HHGD]

Introduce a threshold. Groups of <5 can PUG it up. Groups >4 go into the group queue. Or any number split thereof. There should be a mechanic against sync dropping though and unit tag can play a role in that.

[caseysrevenge]

And here we are again the same old discussion that had been proven wrong in the past,We dropped with 12 mans had a lot of fun then yoho change it to 4 v 4 8 v 8 the group died down and left to play other games.
You say people leave before playing ??? I have seen dedicated players leave with there money because they changed 12 v 12 to 8 v 8.So now you want to do the same.Without the whales were i'm part of this game will die out very soon.
Because as we al know there is not such a thing as free to play,