68 replies to this topic

[Juodas Varnas]

Hit the Deck, on 26 June 2015 - 11:40 PM, said:

"To balance them against their predecessor, some of the the upcoming IIC 'Mechs will get hardpoints deflation."



Imagine that.

Oh how nice.
.
Because all IS mechs are always limited by their hardpoints and not their much heavier equipment and XL engines that are basically suicide if you put them in (with a few exceptions)...

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 26 June 2015 - 11:46 PM.

[Hit the Deck]

Juodas Varnas, on 26 June 2015 - 11:46 PM, said:

Oh how nice.
.
Because all IS mechs are always limited by their hardpoints and not their much heavier equipment and XL engines that are basically suicide if you put them in (with a few exceptions)...

Well, the Atlas, HGN, VTR, and ON1-chan share the same trait that they can't boat. The Clan's EXE-PRIME is an example of not enough hardpoints but saved by the Clan's Omnipod construction rules. Unfortunately it still can't save the SMN though..., because FASA.

[Bishop Steiner]

Juodas Varnas, on 26 June 2015 - 11:46 PM, said:

Oh how nice.
.
Because all IS mechs are always limited by their hardpoints and not their much heavier equipment and XL engines that are basically suicide if you put them in (with a few exceptions)...

go ask mr Summoner or the SPider what it's like to be lacking hardpoints.

[TheCharlatan]

I love Jenners. I like the IIc's looks and will buy it 100%.
Can't wait for a locust IIc!

Edited by TheCharlatan, 27 June 2015 - 03:32 AM.

[Tennex]

Hit the Deck, on 26 June 2015 - 11:40 PM, said:

"To balance them against their predecessor, some of the the upcoming IIC 'Mechs will get hardpoints deflation."



Imagine that.

I guess they can do that since most of the variants will be made up

[FalconerGray]

Soon....

[Mardek]

The color pattern make me want to be blind =P

the jenner is.... jenner

huncback its cool

thats not a orion at all

highlander its ok but could be improved a little

Sorry to be a joykiller but i think pgi could take a break from creating new mech and go full speed on balancing and improving the game

[ScarecrowES]

Mardek, on 27 June 2015 - 07:54 AM, said:

The color pattern make me want to be blind =P

the jenner is.... jenner

huncback its cool

thats not a orion at all

highlander its ok but could be improved a little

Sorry to be a joykiller but i think pgi could take a break from creating new mech and go full speed on balancing and improving the game

The art team and the coding, UI, etc teams are different. Artists can't code, and vice versa. So for all intents and purposes, all teams within PGI are already going full speed at what those respective teams actually have the expertise and personnel to accomplish. In your opinion should they, then, fire their artist staff and take on additional coders?

[LordBraxton]

Juodas Varnas, on 26 June 2015 - 11:46 PM, said:

Oh how nice.
.
Because all IS mechs are always limited by their hardpoints and not their much heavier equipment and XL engines that are basically suicide if you put them in (with a few exceptions)...

People are dismissing Varnas too quickly here. An orion with a clan XL, and even 3 slots (1 ballistics 2 energy or 2 ballistic 1 energy) would still be drastically superior to any IS orion.

Looking at their concept art, just to do stock loadouts these mechs will have enough hardpoints to make their IS equivalents obsolete. The IS HBK with it's insane quirks might be the only competition. The Orion and Highlander especially are such garbage...

This is tragic. It's basically telling players you have to buy the new clan tech to play orions or highlanders..

Edited by LordBraxton, 27 June 2015 - 08:07 AM.

[Mardek]

ScarecrowES, on 27 June 2015 - 07:58 AM, said:

The art team and the coding, UI, etc teams are different. Artists can't code, and vice versa. So for all intents and purposes, all teams within PGI are already going full speed at what those respective teams actually have the expertise and personnel to accomplish. In your opinion should they, then, fire their artist staff and take on additional coders?

Art team could focus on maps instead of splitting effort on both mechs and maps =)

[ScarecrowES]

Mardek, on 27 June 2015 - 08:08 AM, said:

Art team could focus on maps instead of splitting effort on both mechs and maps =)

The folks doing maps and the folks doing mechs are two different groups. Or I should say, they're divided in such a way that noone can do each others' jobs. You have your modelers doing mechs, and mesh folks doing the map geometry... graphic artists doing texture work, etc. It's not as though you can just take the folks doing modeling work on mechs and put them to work making meshes for maps. The texture artists almost certainly work both.

However, PGI makes money from mech sales. Not putting out mechs on a regular basis means MWO will cease to exist. If you want to be playing this game in 6 months, the constant inflow of mechs is necessary. Mech sales mean map rework, bug fixes, CW additions, mech balancing, etc.

[Mardek]

ScarecrowES, on 27 June 2015 - 08:22 AM, said:

The folks doing maps and the folks doing mechs are two different groups. Or I should say, they're divided in such a way that noone can do each others' jobs. You have your modelers doing mechs, and mesh folks doing the map geometry... graphic artists doing texture work, etc. It's not as though you can just take the folks doing modeling work on mechs and put them to work making meshes for maps. The texture artists almost certainly work both.

However, PGI makes money from mech sales. Not putting out mechs on a regular basis means MWO will cease to exist. If you want to be playing this game in 6 months, the constant inflow of mechs is necessary. Mech sales mean map rework, bug fixes, CW additions, mech balancing, etc.

A GOOD game makes money even if theres no packs.
having a bazillion mechs and poor maps or poor game mechanics to play those its useless

[Summon3r]

Roadkill, on 26 June 2015 - 05:04 PM, said:

Right. That's my point. In in the lore, the IIC Mechs were "2nd line" because lore. Or in any kind of campaign where repair & rearm could come into play.

In MWO, none of that exists, and all tech is supposed to be roughly equal. But part of that equality is that Clan Omnimechs aren't allowed to freely upgrade like IS Battlemechs can.

IIC variants aren't Omnimechs, they're Battlemechs. So if PGI keeps with their current policy, the IIC variants will be able to use Clan tech but will also have the ability to freely upgrade just like IS Mechs.

Think about it. If you could carry Clan tech on IS variants, would you ever bother with a Clan Omnimech again?

So PGI's going to have to be very careful to ensure that these IIC variants are not OP. Something that we don't know yet is going to seem like a nerf, but it'll be intended to keep their power at the same level as IS Battlemechs and Clan Omnimechs.

this is all part of the overall issue within MWO, mechs should never have been balanced 1 to 1 equally or attempted to. its long past time to try balancing by a number of mechs on the battlefield, its done in other games, for example world of warships where one team with a higher so called "battle value" has 2 less ships then the other team.

something along these lines would probably have saved PGI many many customers over the course of their mass nerfage to the so called "omni-mech".

at least on test servers to see how it would have worked, id be very interested to test it out.

[Mardek]

Summon3r, on 27 June 2015 - 08:46 AM, said:

this is all part of the overall issue within MWO, mechs should never have been balanced 1 to 1 equally or attempted to. its long past time to try balancing by a number of mechs on the battlefield, its done in other games, for example world of warships where one team with a higher so called "battle value" has 2 less ships then the other team.

something along these lines would probably have saved PGI many many customers over the course of their mass nerfage to the so called "omni-mech".

at least on test servers to see how it would have worked, id be very interested to test it out.

there is in lore and its called stars vs lances (10 vs 12)

Edited by Mardek, 27 June 2015 - 09:02 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Not that the mechs look bad, and aesthetics being a subjective thing, what bothers me is that certain mechs don't entirely fit the established MWO art style. Like, the Highlander IIC in particular. It does not follow the same sort of style that we've come to expect in the game. The quality is fine, and it is a very, very close mimicry of the tabletop model, but it doesn't look like it belongs in MWO. Too lanky and the proportions seem off (lower legs and the head, the oversized rifle arm). Fits the model but deviates an awful lot from the chunkier, bulkier redesigns everything else seems to have received.

Orion IIC and Hunchback IIC look about right to me, though I dislike the Hunchback's center torso design. It just looks odd to me. The Jenner IIC, otoh, has a really, really weird looking face and the legs seem too skinny to me. Almost like they bolted locust legs to it and smashed it in the face with a hammer.

The pack does not interest me too heavy in and of itself, but what it represents, Clan Battlemechs, does. We might get to see some interesting mech designs like the Vapor Eagle (oh god yes), Grizzly, Kodiak, and Supernova. Come to think of it, I do not think the Vape was ever in any prior mechwarrior game, and it is such a sexy, sexy looking mech.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 27 June 2015 - 09:12 AM.

[Tennex]

Pariah Devalis, on 27 June 2015 - 09:11 AM, said:

Not that the mechs look bad, and aesthetics being a subjective thing, what bothers me is that certain mechs don't entirely fit the established MWO art style. Like, the Highlander IIC in particular. It does not follow the same sort of style that we've come to expect in the game.

Agreed, we've been slowly inching away form the tank plating syle art that used to be in the game.

In the case with the Highlander IIC i think it doesnt fit the art consistency because of the cartoonish proportions of the shoulder circle. Sure, its closer to the original art, but the original art never had standards of realism like this game does.
I think they could reduce the size of the circular shoulders, or make it more geometric

Edited by Tennex, 27 June 2015 - 09:14 AM.

[Hit the Deck]

Yeah, I think Alex stays too true to the original materials and miniatures this time. I don't mind if their silhouette and overall proportions are similar but our ingame versions should give an impression that the 'Mechs are believable constructs. The "hat", "kneecaps", and "wheels for shoulders" on the Highlander IIC don't help this notion T_T

Edited by Hit the Deck, 27 June 2015 - 09:28 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Tennex, on 27 June 2015 - 09:13 AM, said:

Agreed, we've been slowly inching away form the tank plating syle art that used to be in the game.

In the case with the Highlander IIC i think it doesnt fit the art consistency because of the cartoonish proportions of the shoulder circle. Sure, its closer to the original art, but the original art never had standards of realism like this game does.
I think they could reduce the size of the circular shoulders, or make it more geometric

Shoulder Circles, the entire lower leg structure, the proportionally tiny head, and the way oversized gauss rifle arm all contribute. If it looked a little more like the IS HGN, being a little more compact, I think they could pull off suitable nods towards the original, but it just looks weird right now....

[ScarecrowES]

Mardek, on 27 June 2015 - 08:34 AM, said:

A GOOD game makes money even if theres no packs.
having a bazillion mechs and poor maps or poor game mechanics to play those its useless

How else do free to play games make money but by selling you things?

[Twilight Fenrir]

Anjian, on 26 June 2015 - 10:49 PM, said:

If its a light, a medium, a heavy, and an assault, it has the makings of a Clan pack.

However, the problem is that they lack variants;

I think these are better off on the Gift Store.

The Highlander is the only assault IIC they can legally make --- the rest of the IIC assaults are based, guess what, on the Unseen.

Based on the designs already and incoming in the game, the other IIC mechs that may have a door opened to the game are:
Urbanmech
Griffin
Thunderbolt
Shadowhawk
Commando
Locust
Wolfhound

Wait, what? How can there be a Wolfhound IIC? That was designed 250 or so years after the Exodus. Unless that's just what they called Phelan's Grinner after it was rebuilt?