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Oh, The Irony!


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#61 ScarecrowES

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 02:41 PM

View PostSir Wulfrick, on 28 June 2015 - 01:39 PM, said:


Agree 100% with both of you. Despite it being fashionable to bash Microsoft, I'm very glad that they own the rights to Battletech. The MS army of lawyers is probably larger than the entire work force at HG and MS could easily drown them in legal warfare whereas PGI has no hope of doing so. The only difficulty is that MS appears to have no interest in developing the Battletech IP in-house. It has after all been more than 10 years since we got the original Mechwarrior 4.

I really do hope that MWO is a great success as it may convince Microsoft to pick up the IP and run with it, either assisting PGI in terms of devs and resources or at the very least squishing HG like the parasitic insect that it really is, thus giving us all the unseen mechs free of greedy IP ********.


It's unlikely MS would have to even file motions here. HG has not interfered with any other use of the reseen mechs in any other media. They have no leg to stand on here either, as long as PGI strays far enough away from the original unseen sources. Any motion HG can file in court would be thrown out.

MS need only send a carefully worded letter to HG asking for their intent regarding potentially blocking the use of their property and kindly remind them of the armada of lawyers at the ready to fight any hindrance.

In fact, I wonder if the MWO community could band together and petition MS to step in for the long term benefit of the property at large. Get them moving directly.

#62 Escef

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 02:51 PM

View PostScarecrowES, on 28 June 2015 - 02:41 PM, said:

It's unlikely MS would have to even file motions here. HG has not interfered with any other use of the reseen mechs in any other media. They have no leg to stand on here either, as long as PGI strays far enough away from the original unseen sources. Any motion HG can file in court would be thrown out.

MS need only send a carefully worded letter to HG asking for their intent regarding potentially blocking the use of their property and kindly remind them of the armada of lawyers at the ready to fight any hindrance.

In fact, I wonder if the MWO community could band together and petition MS to step in for the long term benefit of the property at large. Get them moving directly.


While MS certainly has the resources, the bigger question is if they have the will. Especially over such a niche property as MW.

#63 ScarecrowES

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 03:52 PM

View PostEscef, on 28 June 2015 - 02:51 PM, said:


While MS certainly has the resources, the bigger question is if they have the will. Especially over such a niche property as MW.


The reality would most likely be that any action taken on by MS to exert their rights to the property would not be met by any resistance by HG.

Let's think about it this way. If PGI were to sell a Project Phoenix pack that included any 4 of the remaining PP mechs we don't already have, among them being the Marauder, Warhammer, Rifleman, etc... what kind of monetary stream would such a pack represent to PGI? There's reason to believe such a pack would be the best-selling pack PGI could put out. If done well, there isn't a Battletech vet playing MWO who wouldn't pay hard cash for even one of those mechs, and it's likely PGI would sell the top-level pack at the highest possible numbers. There's little doubt here that those mechs represent the best money stream from mechs PGI can have at any point in the life of MWO.

PGI's existing stance of asking Harmony Gold for a blessing isn't going to work. It will NEVER be in HG's interest to say "yes" even if they have no LEGAL grounds to say "no." The threat of a lawsuit, however unfounded, is what prevents PGI from acting in its own self interest, the interest of the rights-holder (MS), and the interest of the property.

You can currently go out and buy Marauders in other media. You can order yourself an Iron Wind Marauder metal miniature right now if you chose. I can't imagine Iron Wind makes much money selling Marauder minis. HG leaves them alone. Relatively speaking, PGI probably doesn't stand to make a lot either - nothing worth filing suit over. But, It's probably fair to say PGI, and certainly MS, has more might than Iron Wind. Ultimately, it might just require that, as rights holders, PGI... but more specifically MS... flex a little muscle.

If the community were to point out, en masse, just how MUCH is at stake with these reseen mechs, it might spur the powers that be to action. Show that the community is united in support of their inclusion in the game, and how much money stands to be made now and in the future from these mechs, and PGI/MS might lift a finger to bolster the rights they already have.

Of course, the community has to support a redesign. Many community members want the original designs, which PGI can't have without HG being on board (they are not). And the townhall made it seem like Russ is bucking for support from HG to use the original work. This would be a mistake, of course, for anyone to hold onto the desire to include the original designs. If you're ever going to see a Marauder in a Mechwarrior game, it's going to be reseen. Folks need to be on-board with that.

Edited by ScarecrowES, 28 June 2015 - 04:00 PM.


#64 Alan Davion

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 04:08 PM

View PostScarecrowES, on 28 June 2015 - 03:52 PM, said:


The reality would most likely be that any action taken on by MS to exert their rights to the property would not be met by any resistance by HG.

Let's think about it this way. If PGI were to sell a Project Phoenix pack that included any 4 of the remaining PP mechs we don't already have, among them being the Marauder, Warhammer, Rifleman, etc... what kind of monetary stream would such a pack represent to PGI? There's reason to believe such a pack would be the best-selling pack PGI could put out. If done well, there isn't a Battletech vet playing MWO who wouldn't pay hard cash for even one of those mechs, and it's likely PGI would sell the top-level pack at the highest possible numbers. There's little doubt here that those mechs represent the best money stream from mechs PGI can have at any point in the life of MWO.

PGI's existing stance of asking Harmony Gold for a blessing isn't going to work. It will NEVER be in HG's interest to say "yes" even if they have no LEGAL grounds to say "no." The threat of a lawsuit, however unfounded, is what prevents PGI from acting in its own self interest, the interest of the rights-holder (MS), and the interest of the property.

You can currently go out and buy Marauders in other media. You can order yourself an Iron Wind Marauder metal miniature right now if you chose. I can't imagine Iron Wind makes much money selling Marauder minis. HG leaves them alone. It's probably fair to say PGI, and certainly MS, has more might than Iron Wind. Ultimately, it might just require that, as rights holders, PGI... but more specifically MS... flex a little muscle.

If the community were to point out, en masse, just how MUCH is at stake with these reseen mechs, it might spur the powers that be to action. Show that the community is united in support of their inclusion in the game, and how much money stands to be made now and in the future from these mechs, and PGI/MS might lift a finger to bolster the rights they already have.

Of course, the community has to support a redesign. Many community members want the original designs, which PGI can't have without HG being on board (they are not). And the townhall made it seem like Russ is bucking for support from HG to use the original work. This would be a mistake, of course, for anyone to hold onto the desire to include the original designs. If you're ever going to see a Marauder in a Mechwarrior game, it's going to be reseen. Folks need to be on-board with that.


The part in bold is the real key here.

Any of the Macross Phoenix mechs would have to be redesigned regardless in order to fit into MWOs current aesthetic mythos.

I forget who it was, but someone posted a thread about a redesigned Marauder in MWO, and they used parts from the Catapult, S.Hawk and Cataphract to make it, and frankly it looked really close to the original Marauder art, but used assets completely unique to MWO.

Granted the picture was a photo-shopped mish-mash, but the key is, it looked enough like the original to appeal to that crowd, while differentiating itself from the disputed Zentradi Officer Pod image. So it's entirely possible that Alex and/or the rest of the art and design team could make the really popular Macross Phoenix mechs using current in-game assets, plus a little originality of their own.

The question is, how many of the Macross mechs could be worked like that? Right now I only think the Rifleman, Warhammer and Marauder could be safely brought into MWO after a once-over from Alex and the art team.

The Wasp/Stinger, and maybe the Valkyrie, I really can't see those mechs working, purely from a gameplay perspective, without some amount of armor/hardpoint inflation.

The Phoenix Hawk and Crusader are the only ones I don't have any idea on how they'd be made to fit into MWO, considering their original artworks were incredibly iconic, i.e. the Super and Armored Valkyries/Veritechs, respectively.

The Ostscout, Ostroc and Ostsol are the only Macross derived mechs that can be used in their original and/or upgraded forms, and frankly only the Ostroc and Ostsol are the only ones worth using from a gameplay perspective.

#65 ScarecrowES

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 04:43 PM

You basically have to sit the community down and state, quite firmly, the original "unseen" designs are off limits. It's not going to happen, end of story. For all intents and purposes, those designs never existed. As iconic as they are, they're icons of a different franchise.

The Marauder's redesigns are all pretty good. You've got various editions from the standard Marauder to the IIC to the 2, and all are fully legal for use in Mechwarrior properties. Any variation on those is perfectly acceptable, and the IIC looks most like the original.

The reseen Warhammer is hideous, and I'm sure Alex can do a better job. The Rifleman offers plenty of chance for MWO to make it its own. As for the Phoenix Hawk, Crusader, Wasp, and Stinger... their reseens aren't much different than any of the other humanoid mechs that share the Project Phoenix grouping. If it can work for the others, it can work for them.

The Marauder, honestly, is by far the easiest of the bunch.

#66 CMDR Sunset Shimmer

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 05:07 PM

View PostScarecrowES, on 28 June 2015 - 04:43 PM, said:

You basically have to sit the community down and state, quite firmly, the original "unseen" designs are off limits. It's not going to happen, end of story. For all intents and purposes, those designs never existed. As iconic as they are, they're icons of a different franchise.

The Marauder's redesigns are all pretty good. You've got various editions from the standard Marauder to the IIC to the 2, and all are fully legal for use in Mechwarrior properties. Any variation on those is perfectly acceptable, and the IIC looks most like the original.

The reseen Warhammer is hideous, and I'm sure Alex can do a better job. The Rifleman offers plenty of chance for MWO to make it its own. As for the Phoenix Hawk, Crusader, Wasp, and Stinger... their reseens aren't much different than any of the other humanoid mechs that share the Project Phoenix grouping. If it can work for the others, it can work for them.

The Marauder, honestly, is by far the easiest of the bunch.


I will forever and always tout the WHM 8K model as what the basis for the reseen warhammer should be.

Posted Image

#67 Escef

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 05:28 PM

View PostFlash Frame, on 28 June 2015 - 05:07 PM, said:


I will forever and always tout the WHM 8K model as what the basis for the reseen warhammer should be.

Posted Image


Is it "supposed" to look like that, or were the missile launcher and searchlight elevated by way of kit bash? Either way, I don't think the way those are raised ends up working very well... Better than I could do, of course. There's a couple reasons I never got into minis, and one of them is how horrible the upper limit of my skill in fitting and painting is.

Anyway, I feel the 9S Whammie keeps most of the basic aesthetic of the mech.
Posted Image

Edited by Escef, 28 June 2015 - 05:29 PM.


#68 CMDR Sunset Shimmer

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 05:38 PM

The missile and searchlight in that shot are kitbashed higher.

They're ment to sit flush with the shoulders.

#69 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 03:53 AM

View PostFlash Frame, on 28 June 2015 - 05:38 PM, said:

The missile and searchlight in that shot are kitbashed higher.

They're ment to sit flush with the shoulders.

Sorry what?
Posted Image

No no I understand what you meant now!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 29 June 2015 - 03:56 AM.






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