228 replies to this topic

[Rahul Roy]

You are missing that the first CW event resulted in the changes in which match type you get.

No longer do you get the most favorable match type for your 'side' if your 12-man group queued first (including if you had several 12-man groups waiting in the queue).

That was the only way more smaller pug groups could possibly have an impact.

Now the key to success is a combination of unit size + skill.

Size to get enough matches within a given time in the ceasefire, even if they are ghost drops and skill to ensure enough matches are victory in case they are NOT ghost drops.

A team with superior skill can now single-handedly defend any planet (though I doubt they ever would want to, or have to).

No team regardless of skill can single-handedly capture a planet.

It's good and bad.

[Gremlich Johns]

YEA!!! PGI wants to totally control the way YOU play their game.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

One of the flawed game mechanics that was highlighted by the recent CW event is a Unit's ability to defend the planets that they have tagged, and how the tag for a planet can shift (it only takes one successful defense by another unit).

If there is going to be an incentive for tagging planets, for investing Unit Coffers in additional planetary infrastructure, and an incentive for a smaller unit size, there needs to be a method for that smaller unit to be able to defend that planet without having a 12-man on standby 24/7, ready to respond to a call-to-arms.

228th IBR is one of the few units that has regular players in each "prime time" time zone, and we cannot (yet) field a 12-man for more than about half the week (outside of major CW events) ... and we're currently about twice the size specified as the target.

Edited by Kageru Ikazuchi, 09 July 2015 - 07:08 PM.

[Crockdaddy]

Gremlich Johns, on 09 July 2015 - 05:43 PM, said:

YEA!!! PGI wants to totally control the way YOU play their game.

That isn't true per se. The idea floated out in the town hall is largely in response to voices in the community expressing their displeasure at the dominance of large groups. Anyone that plays and reads the forums knows and understands this. But like the OP I am unsure if a unit cap / limit will have a major impact / difference exactly. NS is an example of a sort of medium / sorta large unit that has an outsized impact on the map. NS only recently made it over the 100 member number and in fact if we were to prune our roster (which we sometimes do) we would drop immediately back under 100. However we have a larger more active base of players. Typically 60 to 70% of our membership plays each month. What doesn't happen as easily is the formation of 12 man groups. Post Tukayyid it has been difficult to maintain a 12 man in the NA timezone (our most active time) with any consistency. Usually we have 8 to 18 guys online and we fill in groups with other units. Largely Interest has waned due to lack of evolution in CW game mechanics. Maps are nice ... new mechs are cool ... but unless there is an event or an eventual evolution of what it means to take a planet for our unit / faction it is hard to get motivated. Not even mentioning that even finding a CW match inside of Kurita prior to the most recent event was difficult to do. I don't have the answers but I am unsure that breaking up mega groups will have much of an impact.

[VoodooLou Kerensky]

Its just a practice grounds for the e-sports teams. If it was truely a 'Thinking Persons MechWarrior game' the Maps would be huge (takes 30-45 minutes for the fastest mech to move from one side of map to the opposite side), the DZ's would be randomized between 3-4 places for each side and it wouldnt have a timer.

In lore the Battle of Tukayyid took 21 days Comstar fielded 12 'Armies' which is roughly 6 Divisions each so 72 Divisions vs 25 Galaxies (a little more than 8 Divisions) which makes it 9 vs 1 and ComStar barely won http://www.sarna.net...edCom_Civil_War 8 hours to win a planet is rediculous.

[Flutterguy]

VoodooLou Kerensky, on 09 July 2015 - 07:17 PM, said:

Its just a practice grounds for the e-sports teams. If it was truely a 'Thinking Persons MechWarrior game' the Maps would be huge (takes 30-45 minutes for the fastest mech to move from one side of map to the opposite side), the DZ's would be randomized between 3-4 places for each side and it wouldnt have a timer.

In lore the Battle of Tukayyid took 21 days Comstar fielded 12 'Armies' which is roughly 6 Divisions each so 72 Divisions vs 25 Galaxies (a little more than 8 Divisions) which makes it 9 vs 1 and ComStar barely won http://www.sarna.net...edCom_Civil_War 8 hours to win a planet is rediculous.

Your numbers are a bit off. Comstar had 6 armies which were the equivalent to 144 regiments (closer to the equivalent of 16 divisions, a division is 3 brigades which in turn is 3 regiments). The clan galaxy is the rough equivalent to a brigade, so 25 galaxies is about the equivalent to 75 regiments. All in all, Comstar had about a 2:1 advantage over the clans.

Edited by Flutterguy, 09 July 2015 - 10:01 PM.

[Aresye]

VoodooLou Kerensky, on 09 July 2015 - 07:17 PM, said:

Its just a practice grounds for the e-sports teams. If it was truely a 'Thinking Persons MechWarrior game' the Maps would be huge (takes 30-45 minutes for the fastest mech to move from one side of map to the opposite side), the DZ's would be randomized between 3-4 places for each side and it wouldnt have a timer.

Think about it really hard. You spend 50min getting your heavy to the fight, you end up on the wrong end of discovering a firing line, and 8 mechs focus you down in less than 10s. Now it's back to the DZ to spend another 40-50min getting to the fight.

About how long do you think players would put up with that BS? I doubt many would even complete a single match before they said, "f*** it," and quit the game.

Excellent idea to completely kill the game though. Good job!

[Necromantion]

Aresye Kerensky, on 09 July 2015 - 09:50 PM, said:

Think about it really hard. You spend 50min getting your heavy to the fight, you end up on the wrong end of discovering a firing line, and 8 mechs focus you down in less than 10s. Now it's back to the DZ to spend another 40-50min getting to the fight.

About how long do you think players would put up with that BS? I doubt many would even complete a single match before they said, "f*** it," and quit the game.

Excellent idea to completely kill the game though. Good job!

If it was set up like planetslide kinda with dropships being able to choose locations and stuff it would be cool as heck but yeah totally not going to happen with this game or this developer. I can dream though...

[Kain Demos]

VoodooLou Kerensky, on 09 July 2015 - 07:17 PM, said:

Its just a practice grounds for the e-sports teams. If it was truely a 'Thinking Persons MechWarrior game' the Maps would be huge (takes 30-45 minutes for the fastest mech to move from one side of map to the opposite side), the DZ's would be randomized between 3-4 places for each side and it wouldnt have a timer.

In lore the Battle of Tukayyid took 21 days Comstar fielded 12 'Armies' which is roughly 6 Divisions each so 72 Divisions vs 25 Galaxies (a little more than 8 Divisions) which makes it 9 vs 1 and ComStar barely won http://www.sarna.net...edCom_Civil_War 8 hours to win a planet is rediculous.

We all want bigger maps but 45 minutes.....dude, wtf?

[Crockdaddy]

VoodooLou Kerensky, on 09 July 2015 - 07:17 PM, said:

Its just a practice grounds for the e-sports teams. If it was truely a 'Thinking Persons MechWarrior game' the Maps would be huge (takes 30-45 minutes for the fastest mech to move from one side of map to the opposite side), the DZ's would be randomized between 3-4 places for each side and it wouldnt have a timer.

In lore the Battle of Tukayyid took 21 days Comstar fielded 12 'Armies' which is roughly 6 Divisions each so 72 Divisions vs 25 Galaxies (a little more than 8 Divisions) which makes it 9 vs 1 and ComStar barely won http://www.sarna.net...edCom_Civil_War 8 hours to win a planet is rediculous.

Dude ... the dominant FPS game(s) are Call of Duty, Battle Field, Counter Strike, etc. MWO when compared to either game MWO easily comes across as a "Thinking Man's Shooter".

Edited by Crockdaddy, 10 July 2015 - 08:17 AM.

[Aresye]

Crockdaddy, on 10 July 2015 - 06:28 AM, said:

Dude ... the dominant FPS game(s) are Call of Duty, Battle Field, Counter Strike, etc. MWO when compared to either game MWO easily comes across as a "Thinking Man's Shooter".

MW has always been very close to a generic FPS game. MW2, MW3, MW4, and MWLL all had perfect convergence, respawn, classic multiplayer modes like Capture the Flag, deathmatch, free for all, etc. The only "thinking" aspects of the game dealt with mech building and location based damage.

There's a crowd of players that don't understand that though. They say they want MWO to be more like "True MechWarrior," yet are vehemently against every feature (ex: respawn) that would actually make the game like other MW games. They say they want MW, but what they really want is TableTop: Online, a path that I have no doubts would forever seal MWO's fate as an obscure title that will never see widespread popularity.

Doesn't negate the fact that we ABSOLUTELY need more depth to gameplay, and it's not outside the realm of possibility to have the most immersive MW game ever while still appealing to the fast paced FPS crowd. The problem is we have twitchy e-sports shooters on one side, and lore fanatics on the other side, and neither of them are willing to compromise for the greater good of the game.

[VoodooLou Kerensky]

Crockdaddy, on 10 July 2015 - 06:28 AM, said:

Dude ... the dominant FPS game(s) are Call of Duty, Battle Field, Counter Strike, etc. MWO when compared to either game MWO easily comes across as a "Thinking Man's Shooter".

So your saying that since the other games are utter crap that by default makes MWO a Thinking Persons game? By that reasoning 'CandyLand' is the 'Thinking Persons' version of 'Chutes and Ladders' and 'Duck Dynasty' is the 'Thinking mans TV show' in comparrison to 'HoneyBooBoo', and while technically true because one is less crappy than the other it doesnt change the fact that MW2,MW3,MPBT:3025,MW4 and MWLL still makes MWO look like BTech for Dummys.

Since MW2 it was US the Players that created maps for the game to increase the diversity of the drops for the 3110 Systems that make up the BTech Universe. It was US the players that created the Leagues, which had started the whole Community Warfare thing but then it was Called Planetary Battles and both Clan and Inner Sphere units happily used the Bidding Process to schedule battles and what kind of load outs etc that gave it its Diversity.so that every planet wasnt the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over Ad Nauseum. MWO is modeled after WoT and heres where we get the real big problem, None of the Games you mentioned Nor WoT has what we do, CANON. Canon that goes back to 1984-85. All the games you mention take place on Earth. MWO has 3110 Systems and very few have conditions that match and none of them have the exact same planetary stats.

TL:DR-Because the other games are stoopid, MWO is The Greatest thing since sliced bread. NOT!

[VoodooLou Kerensky]

Aresye Kerensky, on 10 July 2015 - 09:44 AM, said:

MW has always been very close to a generic FPS game. MW2, MW3, MW4, and MWLL all had perfect convergence, respawn, classic multiplayer modes like Capture the Flag, deathmatch, free for all, etc. The only "thinking" aspects of the game dealt with mech building and location based damage.

There's a crowd of players that don't understand that though. They say they want MWO to be more like "True MechWarrior," yet are vehemently against every feature (ex: respawn) that would actually make the game like other MW games. They say they want MW, but what they really want is TableTop: Online, a path that I have no doubts would forever seal MWO's fate as an obscure title that will never see widespread popularity.

Doesn't negate the fact that we ABSOLUTELY need more depth to gameplay, and it's not outside the realm of possibility to have the most immersive MW game ever while still appealing to the fast paced FPS crowd. The problem is we have twitchy e-sports shooters on one side, and lore fanatics on the other side, and neither of them are willing to compromise for the greater good of the game.

Very well put Bloodkin. I am totally willing to compromise to make the game we've been waiting for since Solaris VII on AOHell, and we almost had it with MPBT:3025. But when MS pulled out to start developing MW4 once again it was waiting time again. I would really like to get rid of the 'Star Wars Movies' Lasers, since Military grade lasers are colorless and you can only make out heat shimmers with out IR. And while our current Military Grade lasers appear to be a solid line it is infact pulses. But the pulses are powered by Cold Fusion reactors that are pumping Mega Kilo Joules of energy out to a weapon thats supposed to be instant hit and damage (and yes I get that in the TT the pulse lasers spread damage but thats why we have a simulator where even the most rock steady of hands will beable to put 3 laser pulses on a moving target, while moving in the exact same spot.

And to be honest Militarily the Clans are idiots. Whats the best way to Stop someone from doing what you dont want them to do any more? You hit them with something that scares the bejesus outta the Survivors. How best to do that in a Space scenario? Partially Relativistically charged (aka sped up) 'Dinosaur Killer' sized asteroids in a impacting orbit or Track. You goto the next system announce surrender or die and if they do not surrender Send in the Space Rock. And I dont want that for the game since that takes all the fun out of it and why we play Giant Stompy Robots.

TL;DR- Move along Move along nothing to see here. Unless you want to buy a US Citizens Passport into New Mexico, Im selling them Cheap because one of my ancestors was the Founder of Truth or Consequences, New Mexico making me a hereditary Ambassador with the authorization to sell US Citizen New Mexico Passports. Act now and if you buy more than 3 the price lowers significantly.

[Kain Demos]

Aresye Kerensky, on 10 July 2015 - 09:44 AM, said:

MW has always been very close to a generic FPS game. MW2, MW3, MW4, and MWLL all had perfect convergence, respawn, classic multiplayer modes like Capture the Flag, deathmatch, free for all, etc. The only "thinking" aspects of the game dealt with mech building and location based damage.

There's a crowd of players that don't understand that though. They say they want MWO to be more like "True MechWarrior," yet are vehemently against every feature (ex: respawn) that would actually make the game like other MW games. They say they want MW, but what they really want is TableTop: Online, a path that I have no doubts would forever seal MWO's fate as an obscure title that will never see widespread popularity.

Doesn't negate the fact that we ABSOLUTELY need more depth to gameplay, and it's not outside the realm of possibility to have the most immersive MW game ever while still appealing to the fast paced FPS crowd. The problem is we have twitchy e-sports shooters on one side, and lore fanatics on the other side, and neither of them are willing to compromise for the greater good of the game.

Those earlier titles were primarily single player games, with the multiplayer being added more or less as an afterthought. I think what most people are wanting are missions like what the campaigns in those games offered but in a multiplayer setting. Larger maps, nav points, convoy escort/destructions, base assaults (not an orbital cannon alone, I mean levelling an entire base with hardened bunkers, turrets, 'mechs, etc), assassinations, combined arms, dropship seek and destroy, stealth/sneak in to destroy, pure recon, etc.

Edited by Kain Demos, 10 July 2015 - 10:57 AM.

[Crockdaddy]

VoodooLou Kerensky, on 10 July 2015 - 10:03 AM, said:

So your saying that since the other games are utter crap that by default makes MWO a Thinking Persons game? By that reasoning 'CandyLand' is the 'Thinking Persons' version of 'Chutes and Ladders' and 'Duck Dynasty' is the 'Thinking mans TV show' in comparrison to 'HoneyBooBoo', and while technically true because one is less crappy than the other it doesnt change the fact that MW2,MW3,MPBT:3025,MW4 and MWLL still makes MWO look like BTech for Dummys.

Since MW2 it was US the Players that created maps for the game to increase the diversity of the drops for the 3110 Systems that make up the BTech Universe. It was US the players that created the Leagues, which had started the whole Community Warfare thing but then it was Called Planetary Battles and both Clan and Inner Sphere units happily used the Bidding Process to schedule battles and what kind of load outs etc that gave it its Diversity.so that every planet wasnt the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over Ad Nauseum. MWO is modeled after WoT and heres where we get the real big problem, None of the Games you mentioned Nor WoT has what we do, CANON. Canon that goes back to 1984-85. All the games you mention take place on Earth. MWO has 3110 Systems and very few have conditions that match and none of them have the exact same planetary stats.

TL:DR-Because the other games are stoopid, MWO is The Greatest thing since sliced bread. NOT!

Yay for being a gaming Elitest. What I said was relevant. When compared to the bulk of games played online today MWO is a thinking mans shooter. It is different than the run of the mill CoD.

Frankly while I don't care much for CoD anymore I'd hardly call the game crap. It is just a reiteration of more of the same. If you can't see how this game is different from the big 3 FPS online multiplayer games then no biggy ... we have a difference of opinion.

I'd love to have deeper game play that is more in depth. Absolutely. If this game was open to the modding community I could only imagine some of the cool things we would get to see. In some respects I prefer features from prior MW games but in other ways I very much enjoy this one too. I don't have the easy answer nor do I know the current road map for MWO to have a great deal of hope right now.

[Gremlich Johns]

No way is MWO a thinking man's shooter. you select your primary weapons, join a team, shoot crap up, try to win.

[TWIAFU]

Gremlich Johns, on 10 July 2015 - 02:27 PM, said:

No way is MWO a thinking man's shooter. you select your primary weapons, join a team, shoot crap up, try to win.

The game is what you make of it.

What you made sounds boring as hell - glad we don't play the same game.

[Kin3ticX]

Well, lets try a 108 unit cap and see if potential smaller units still feel big units make them pointless. (talking about the ones that stopped playing, not the ones that are still here)

Edited by Kin3ticX, 11 July 2015 - 12:35 AM.

[Necromantion]

Kin3ticX, on 10 July 2015 - 04:56 PM, said:

Well, lets try a 108 unit cap and lets see if potential smaller units still feel big units make them pointless. (talking about the ones that stopped playing, not the ones that are still here)

The big units will just have even higher activity %'s and still outshine the smaller units crying about their ability to compete because of the last event

[Kin3ticX]

Necromantion, on 10 July 2015 - 09:34 PM, said:

The big units will just have even higher activity %'s and still outshine the smaller units crying about their ability to compete because of the last event

I fully expect the active big units to form regiments. Nothing will be stopping them from playing together and every drop still advances their faction. The idea here is to remove that "big unit or die" barrier to entry. Still nothing to be done about activity levels but with unit caps unit leaders will have to make tougher decisions.

With the big active units in regiments, they will be able to focus on certain attack lanes in different ways or compete with each other on the same planet. During events, regiments can either switch factions or compete with each other in the same faction. Some units may decide to have 24/7 Clan or IS regiments and let players move back and forth.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 11 July 2015 - 01:05 AM.