88 replies to this topic

[Mecrutio]

With Sony now owning the Harmony Gold Robotech rights, have the odds of us seeing a so called "Unseen Pack" gone up? I know I and many other players would pay an obscene amount of money for a pack involving the Phoenix Hawk, Warhammer, Maurader, Archer and/or Rifleman.

[MoonUnitBeta]

No. Sony doesn't own Robotech. Sony can only make a movie. HG still has all the rights and they're still going to be D-bags. Just the same as ever.

[One Medic Army]

The odds have, in fact, decreased.

Harmony Gold has a larger warchest, and they will believe the worth of the "Robotech" IP is higher.

I hereby urge everyone to boycott the Robotech movie, rather than let HG profit off if it. (Also since HG is involved in production, it will most likely be freaking terrible)

Edited by One Medic Army, 27 June 2015 - 05:02 PM.

[Johnny Z]

Who knows, I like to think the chances of Mechwarrior seeing those mechs in game has gone up. I have a very high opinion of Sony though.

They cant miss making an awsome Robotech movie although it would be expensive to make and as long as they dont go all cartoony with it. Movies are not the form of entertainment they once were, but no way I will miss watching that movie.

About the mechs, it wasnt long ago everyone was saying they wouldnt see the light of day. Lets face it they are just models of fun sci-fi stuff but they are still cool.

Edited by Johnny Z, 27 June 2015 - 05:14 PM.

[Alan Davion]

One Medic Army has it right.

The Robotech movie, along with the Robotech RPG Tactics war game have considerably reduced the likelihood of us ever seeing the Wasp, Phoenix Hawk, Crusader and all the others.

Unless PGI simply makes the remaining unseen, and with M$ at their back to offset the court costs. This is quite possibly the only option we have at the moment.

[darkkterror]

Alan Davion, on 27 June 2015 - 05:13 PM, said:

with M$ at their back to offset the court costs.

I kinda doubt that the Mechwarrior IP is so lucrative that Microsoft would be willing to spend the money defending against a lawsuit.

[Wintersdark]

darkkterror, on 27 June 2015 - 05:17 PM, said:

I kinda doubt that the Mechwarrior IP is so lucrative that Microsoft would be willing to spend the money defending against a lawsuit.

Indeed. There's no reason for Microsoft to help PGI in case of court costs: PGI licensed the Mechwarrior rights from them, and those rights encompass certain things. There is absolutely legal grey areas, and PGI demonstrably knows that. It's on PGI to act prudently.

Basically, if MS where to assist PGI legally in such an endeavour, they'd be throwing away their profits off the licence. Why do that?

[Alan Davion]

darkkterror, on 27 June 2015 - 05:17 PM, said:

I kinda doubt that the Mechwarrior IP is so lucrative that Microsoft would be willing to spend the money defending against a lawsuit.

Maybe you are right, maybe you are wrong.

If Mektek were still holding the IP, you'd probably be wrong. They could have likely made a spectacular game, and probably gotten all the Unseen into the game given a chance.

M$ didn't give them that chance and now we have this.

The point I'm trying to make is that with M$ taking care of things in court, it would finally set a precedent and get HG to relax its death grip on these specific mechs.

[Wintersdark]

Mecrutio, on 27 June 2015 - 04:58 PM, said:

With Sony now owning the Harmony Gold Robotech rights, have the odds of us seeing a so called "Unseen Pack" gone up? I know I and many other players would pay an obscene amount of money for a pack involving the Phoenix Hawk, Warhammer, Maurader, Archer and/or Rifleman.

This:

MoonUnitBeta, on 27 June 2015 - 04:59 PM, said:

No. Sony doesn't own Robotech. Sony can only make a movie. HG still has all the rights and they're still going to be D-bags. Just the same as ever.

Most frequently, IP rights are not fully sold but rather licensed. In this case, Harmony Gold owns those rights, and is licensing Sony to make a movie. Sony pays HG, so HG earns more $; AND their IP becomes (assuming the movie is awesome) more valuable in the process. Sony makes millions off the movie, everyone involved wins.

[Johnny Z]

You guys are silly, one of the guys running Mechwarrior already said they wouldnt go that route.(courts) It almost sounded like it was hinted that a different route had already been taken to get them in game in fact. Funny stuff either way.

Let the rumour mill churn because no way can anyone say they arent in the cards for Mechwarrior at this point. Unless it is clearly stated otherwise and even then.


Someone once said to me "So you think everyone at Sony are geniuses." I replied "No, but they are smart enough to hire geniuses."

Edited by Johnny Z, 27 June 2015 - 05:36 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Alan Davion, on 27 June 2015 - 05:23 PM, said:

Maybe you are right, maybe you are wrong.

If Mektek were still holding the IP, you'd probably be wrong. They could have likely made a spectacular game, and probably gotten all the Unseen into the game given a chance.

No, they couldn't have. Mektek doesn't have anywhere near the financial resources to play with Harmony Gold.

Quote

M$ didn't give them that chance and now we have this.

The point I'm trying to make is that with M$ taking care of things in court, it would finally set a precedent and get HG to relax its death grip on these specific mechs.

Maybe. But Microsoft doesn't care about a couple specific mechs; they likely don't care at all about Mechwarrior beyond it being an asset amoungst countless ones they can leverage for a few bucks. On the other hand, going to court with HG would cost MS millions. They've got way more important things to deal with than fighting over inconsequential parts of a relatively low-value IP.

[Alan Davion]

Wintersdark, on 27 June 2015 - 05:26 PM, said:

No, they couldn't have. Mektek doesn't have anywhere near the financial resources to play with Harmony Gold.

Maybe. But Microsoft doesn't care about a couple specific mechs; they likely don't care at all about Mechwarrior beyond it being an asset amoungst countless ones they can leverage for a few bucks. On the other hand, going to court with HG would cost MS millions. They've got way more important things to deal with than fighting over inconsequential parts of a relatively low-value IP.

Except for the fact you're forgetting that Mektek put mechs like the Wasp and Marauder into MW4, and the fact that they looked within 90% of their original forms and HG never raised a stink over that.

[Wintersdark]

Alan Davion, on 27 June 2015 - 05:37 PM, said:

Except for the fact you're forgetting that Mektek put mechs like the Wasp and Marauder into MW4, and the fact that they looked within 90% of their original forms and HG never raised a stink over that.

I'm not forgetting anything.

What people have gotten away with in the past isn't really relevant. There's more dollars on the line here, mechs that are individually sold for real money.

That's the whole problem with this situation: It's the threat of a lawsuit that's the biggest danger. It's not even about winning the lawsuit (which is entirely up in the air, as IP law is a mess) but the threat. Russ has talked to HG, and has gotten nowhere. If he were to try to put these mechs in the game anyways, HG would basically have to sue; they couldn't overlook it.

And basically, the moment the lawsuit starts, PGI is out a metric ****-ton of cash, possibly a ruinous amount. Outcome is irrelevant if they cannot afford to take the lawsuit to it's conclusion. So, all Harmony gold has to do at that point is demand a large pile of cash (but smaller than the cost of fighting the lawsuit) alongside a garauntee that PGI doesn't infringe on their IP, and PGI has to bend over and and take it up the ass. That, right there, is how IP law works in practice.

Mechs go away, PGI loses likely hundreds of thousands of dollars, and we're back where we were at the start.

[Novakaine]

Wonder what n00b would waste a dime on a Robotech movie?
Good luck with that one Sucker-Sony.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Wintersdark, on 27 June 2015 - 05:24 PM, said:

Most frequently, IP rights are not fully sold but rather licensed. In this case, Harmony Gold owns those rights, and is licensing Sony to make a movie. Sony pays HG, so HG earns more $; AND their IP becomes (assuming the movie is awesome) more valuable in the process. Sony makes millions off the movie, everyone involved wins.

Exactly.
Sony's only making a movie, they have no say in the rights that HG owns on the unseen.

[Wintersdark]

Novakaine, on 27 June 2015 - 05:44 PM, said:

Wonder what n00b would waste a dime on a Robotech movie?
Good luck with that one Sucker-Sony.

Eh? The vast mountains of people who don't know a thing about Battletech or even Robotech. These both really predate teenagers and kids in their 20's today anyways. Us Battletech junkies aren't exactly numerous, or even the target market.

Target market? Young people who want to watch robots blowing **** up.

[Johnny Z]

Wintersdark, on 27 June 2015 - 05:43 PM, said:

I'm not forgetting anything.

What people have gotten away with in the past isn't really relevant. There's more dollars on the line here, mechs that are individually sold for real money.

That's the whole problem with this situation: It's the threat of a lawsuit that's the biggest danger. It's not even about winning the lawsuit (which is entirely up in the air, as IP law is a mess) but the threat. Russ has talked to HG, and has gotten nowhere. If he were to try to put these mechs in the game anyways, HG would basically have to sue; they couldn't overlook it.

And basically, the moment the lawsuit starts, PGI is out a metric ****-ton of cash, possibly a ruinous amount. Outcome is irrelevant if they cannot afford to take the lawsuit to it's conclusion. So, all Harmony gold has to do at that point is demand a large pile of cash (but smaller than the cost of fighting the lawsuit) alongside a garauntee that PGI doesn't infringe on their IP, and PGI has to bend over and and take it up the ass. That, right there, is how IP law works in practice.

Mechs go away, PGI loses likely hundreds of thousands of dollars, and we're back where we were at the start.

Please. Your talking about business men not spoiled petty imbeciles. Its a fact maybe its not workable to have some versions of the mechs in Mechwarrior, maybe it is? But take the ******** threats of court actions out of this equation.

[Wintersdark]

Johnny Z, on 27 June 2015 - 05:47 PM, said:

Please. Your talking about business men not spoiled petty imbeciles. Its a fact maybe its not workable to have some versions of the mechs in Mechwarrior, maybe it is? But take the ******** threats of court actions out of this equation.

This is IP law. It's not "******** threats of court actions" like those moronic forumwarriors who claim they'll sue if their mech gets nerfed. Lawsuits are threatened over IP all the time; and Harmony Gold in particular absolutely do this, and do sue people over using their IP without licensing.

And, that's the whole point. When you own the IP, suing someone and forcing a settlement like I describe is good business. You don't have the cost of the lawsuit, you just gain a big payoff from the target company because it's cheaper for them to do that than fight.

That **** happens every day.

Edited by Wintersdark, 27 June 2015 - 05:50 PM.

[FupDup]

Alan Davion, on 27 June 2015 - 05:37 PM, said:

Except for the fact you're forgetting that Mektek put mechs like the Wasp and Marauder into MW4, and the fact that they looked within 90% of their original forms and HG never raised a stink over that.

MW4 was released by MT for free though, which meant that MT wasn't really profiting from adding the unseen to their game.

[Wintersdark]

FupDup, on 27 June 2015 - 05:49 PM, said:

MW4 was released by MT for free though, which meant that MT wasn't really profiting from adding the unseen to their game.

Exactly the point.

On the other hand, PGI is selling the mechs themselves. They are a commercial good. HG would jump on that instantly.