88 replies to this topic

[Zeusus]

SpectreHD, on 27 June 2015 - 07:32 PM, said:

Also, is Sony stupid? Why Robotech? Why not do a Macross movie.

Because Studio Nue (or whoever it is that makes Macross) has been making content and is making a new series right now. They don't need Sony.

[Charlie Grant]

Seems like an opportunity for cross-promotion.

[SpectreHD]

Zeusus, on 28 June 2015 - 05:57 AM, said:

Because Studio Nue (or whoever it is that makes Macross) has been making content and is making a new series right now. They don't need Sony.

Well, Studio Nue can't make a high budget live action film. Though it would be nice if they would collaborate with the guys that made the 2010 Space Battleship Yamato movie.

[C E Dwyer]

The chances have gone down.

Very Low opinion of Sony, their past record is that of bankers, give you an umbrella when the suns out, but take it back, when it rains.

They are shedding PC titles like a dog sheds hair in the spring, they just got rid of Everquest 2 and next, for crying out loud,and putting every thing into PS4.

So why would they want a PC title to challenge anything that might impact on a playstation Robotech console game.

If the film makes money that will be the next project after new plastic figures and robotech the gathering card games, and it will make money, people will go see it, there are far more people out there that think Fasa sucks for using robotech rip offs, than fans like us that want to see them.

You want to see Warhammers, Pheonix Hawks Marauders, then your best bet would be to go to the movie and mutter its a Wasp really under your breath, or buy the miniatures and paint them up in your favourite House unit colours

It sucks but that's the realistic outlook, though we can still dream

[Zeusus]

SpectreHD, on 28 June 2015 - 06:36 AM, said:

Well, Studio Nue can't make a high budget live action film. Though it would be nice if they would collaborate with the guys that made the 2010 Space Battleship Yamato movie.

I'm not sure that they can't actually, I'm certain if they wanted to they could. I feel its more a case of they just haven't felt the need.

[SpectreHD]

Zeusus, on 28 June 2015 - 07:17 AM, said:

I'm not sure that they can't actually, I'm certain if they wanted to they could. I feel its more a case of they just haven't felt the need.

I am sure they can, but they'd probably need to collaborate with actual movie studios to do so like the one that did the live action Space Battleship Yamato. An anime studio is large enough that they can handle a high budget movie themselves.

Cathy, on 28 June 2015 - 07:07 AM, said:

The chances have gone down.

Very Low opinion of Sony, their past record is that of bankers, give you an umbrella when the suns out, but take it back, when it rains.

They are shedding PC titles like a dog sheds hair in the spring, they just got rid of Everquest 2 and next, for crying out loud,and putting every thing into PS4.

So why would they want a PC title to challenge anything that might impact on a playstation Robotech console game.

If the film makes money that will be the next project after new plastic figures and robotech the gathering card games, and it will make money, people will go see it, there are far more people out there that think Fasa sucks for using robotech rip offs, than fans like us that want to see them.

You want to see Warhammers, Pheonix Hawks Marauders, then your best bet would be to go to the movie and mutter its a Wasp really under your breath, or buy the miniatures and paint them up in your favourite House unit colours

It sucks but that's the realistic outlook, though we can still dream

It is understandable for Sony to concentrate on their console. However, I do not think Sony will be able to go making plastic models or even game cards or at least be able to sell them in Japan. If anything, they will be made by companies outside of Japan by whoever HG licenses for toy/models/cards companies to produce them.

Sony cannot do that in Japan because there are many toy/model companies that produces Macross related items. One of them being Bandai, who produces Gundam model kits, whom produces a large number of Macross model kits especially for Macross Frontier.

Then there is the Macross fans in Japan who hopefully would not support the film.

Still, I can feel where you are coming from and things really do not feel hopeful especially about seeing the Unseens in this game.

[Alan Davion]

One Medic Army, on 27 June 2015 - 10:38 PM, said:

I just wish we could get some of the damn games outside Japan. I've played some, and they can be pretty awesome. At least the shows/movies can be found online subbed.

The "Another Century's Episode" series springs to mind.

Although I admit I'm more of a "Mobile Suit Gundam" fan when it comes to that series.

[ScarecrowES]

So much ridiculousness in this thread. A few simple facts:

-You will never see the original "unseen" designs for Project Phoenix mechs in MWO or any other Mechwarrior game. Those images are dead as far as the Battletech universe is concerned. It's time to let them go.

-There is absolutely ZERO reason you can't see any of the "reseen" Project Phoenix mechs in MWO, including the popular ones like Warhammer and Marauder. HG has no rights whatsoever to any of the reseen designs, and no copywrite claim on them. FASA's licensees have been selling products with reseen PP designs for years, and you can currently buy Marauders and Warhammers in other media completely uncontested by HG.

-If HG has chosen not to contest any media use for profit of any of the reseen designs they've bought off on in the past, they legally haven't got a leg to stand on whenever a product using those reseen designs as a basis transfers said designs to other media. Basically, if they didn't fight it before, they can't fight it now. Attempting to sue now, after having given their blessing years ago, simply won't work to their benefit.

-This would not necessarily prevent HG from filing a motion in court in an attempt to "protect" its own copywrite claims anyway. They would, however, be completely, legally, in the wrong. Any such motion would certainly not see trial. MS or PGI would not have to invest "millions of dollars" as people claim to fight off a lawsuit.

-This whole situation could be instantly nipped in the bud simply by Microsoft standing up and exercising the property rights it has. A simple letter to HG telling them to **** off would suffice.

If folks would just let the "unseen" die already, this wouldn't be an issue. We could have our Marauders. Hell, I had an original TT kit with the Warhammer on the cover. That image is iconic to me. But that's not Battletech anymore.

Edited by ScarecrowES, 28 June 2015 - 04:19 PM.

[Alan Davion]

ScarecrowES, on 28 June 2015 - 04:17 PM, said:

So much ridiculousness in this thread. A few simple facts:

1. You will never see the original "unseen" designs for Project Phoenix mechs in MWO or any other Mechwarrior game. Those images are dead as far as the Battletech universe is concerned. It's time to let them go.

2. There is absolutely ZERO reason you can't see any of the "reseen" Project Phoenix mechs in MWO, including the popular ones like Warhammer and Marauder. HG has no rights whatsoever to any of the reseen designs, and no copywrite claim on them. FASA's licensees have been selling products with reseen PP designs for years, and you can currently buy Marauders and Warhammers in other media completely uncontested by HG.

3. If HG has chosen not to contest any media use for profit of any of the reseen designs they've bought off on in the past, they legally haven't got a leg to stand on whenever a product using those reseen designs as a basis transfers said designs to other media. Basically, if they didn't fight it before, they can't fight it now. Attempting to sue now, after having given their blessing years ago, simply won't work to their benefit.

4. This would not necessarily prevent HG from filing a motion in court in an attempt to "protect" its own copywrite claims anyway. They would, however, be completely, legally, in the wrong. Any such motion would certainly not see trial. MS or PGI would not have to invest "millions of dollars" as people claim to fight off a lawsuit.

5. This whole situation could be instantly nipped in the bud simply by Microsoft standing up and exercising the property rights it has. A simple letter to HG telling them to **** off would suffice.

6. If folks would just let the "unseen" die already, this wouldn't be an issue. We could have our Marauders. Hell, I had an original TT kit with the Warhammer on the cover. That image is iconic to me. But that's not Battletech anymore.

Numbered for better reference.

1. The current crop of Phoenix mechs are already around 90% of their original unseen artwork. Granted they are from two completely unrelated animes, but it can be done.

2. The problem with this is, the reseen Warhammer and Marauder are freaking butt-ugly, and frankly don't look like they'd even walk properly in MWO... I'm talking specifically about the Marauder in this case, due to it being a top-heavy chicken-walker. The only reseen that is really aesthetically pleasing is the Crusader.

3. I don't really have an argument to make over this one, but I do have a question... When have you seen any of the reseen mechs in any media other than BT/MW, because I sure as shootin' haven't.

4. Your point is valid on this one.

5. Again, you have a valid point, but it's unlikely to happen.

6. Again, people are simply not going to let it go, it's human nature really. Yes, we could have the Warhammer and Maruader in MWO, but I seriously doubt anyone wants those fugly reseen ones. It's possible to make the unseen fit the current aesthetic mythos of MWO, while still retaining most, or almost all of their original aesthetic appeal, as we've already seen with the current Phoenix mechs.

Could someone dig up that picture that someone made in gimp or photoshop of the Marauder which they made using parts from the Catapult, Shadow Hawk and Cataphract?

[ScarecrowES]

Alan Davion, on 28 June 2015 - 04:31 PM, said:

3. I don't really have an argument to make over this one, but I do have a question... When have you seen any of the reseen mechs in any media other than BT/MW, because I sure as shootin' haven't.

Iron Wind Metals currently sells these, 100% legally and without harassment from HG. You can also buy, if you chose, various other tabletop materials, including print books, etc, with reseen images.

Marauder IIC 2

Pretty close to the original.
Or the updated:
Marauder II MAD-4S


Or if you like a more extreme version of the reseen designs:
Marauder MAD-4X and MAD 5L


And just some of the others:
Warhammer WHM-4L/9S


Wasp WSP-3L


Valkyrie VLK-QD1


And so-on. All are legal for use. Or you know... to adapt from.

[Alan Davion]

Those are still primarily for use in BT/MW tabletop.

I was talking about media /other/ than BT/MW, anime, comics, other games, etc.

[Anjian]

Lightfoot, on 28 June 2015 - 03:55 AM, said:

Isn't Harmony Gold using some variations of MechWarrior mechs? I am not familiar with them, but I seem to remember a thing that looked like a Mad Cat.

It's funny though because Copyright law is wide open to new creations, but when is a robot a special robot that is copyrighted and trademarked and how far does that extend? Does this mean if I make a Marauder with the top-gun offset and the arms raised higher (Ebon Jaguar-like) that I have infringed or created newness? I say the latter, but you begin to see there are a finite number of robot segment combinations and then we players change all the weapons. So if the names were changed and the segments shifted around trademarks would not be violated because that is name and identifiable appearances and a robot is like the alphabet or colors so it of itself is not copyrightable like Windows vs Folder Options but the original creations you make from the robot are.

Your reasoning is correct. But... PGI still simply doesn't have the resources to match HG in court. They just don't.

FYI, Wizkid's Mechwarrior Dark Age sets did reintroduce the Unseen, Marauder, Warhammer, Rifleman and the like. HG could have challenged them but they didn't. Why? Because Wizkids was owned by Topps. Big company, backed by an investment firm run by Michael Eisner. The Michael Eisner.

One company has an army of lawyers (Topps). The other doesn't (PGI). Its as simple as that.

Edited by Anjian, 28 June 2015 - 07:13 PM.

[Smokeyhavoc]

Simple fact is that AFIK or can tell is that Scarecrow is right, HG really can't say a f'n word about the reseen images and those could very well end up in our mechbays (hopefully with a little love from Alex). Would I love to drop in an old version Marauder? OH F'n HELL YEAH!!! But the reality because of our godforsaken legal system is is that won't happen. So ya know what I'll take the reseen and have a damn good time driving em.


(hey Alan)

[ScarecrowES]

Alan Davion, on 28 June 2015 - 04:56 PM, said:

Those are still primarily for use in BT/MW tabletop.

I was talking about media /other/ than BT/MW, anime, comics, other games, etc.

To my knowledge, Battletech has always had a limited breadth for media inclusion. Aside from materials related to tabletop gameplay (which are fully licensed and legal, and left alone by HG), there was the old Battletech cartoon from... the '90s? No films as far as I know. Many many books with associated imagery where necessary, but I'm not sure about comics or other visual-heavy print materials not directly related to the table-top game.

The Mechwarrior series, along with other licensed video games, are probably the largest subset of media outside the table-top sources. You've got 4 numbered main titles in the MW series, 2 Mercs sub-titles, dozens of expansions. Then MechAssault, Tactics, Commander, etc. The series is largely represented in videogames outside TT.

Currently, MWO is the only videogame representation of Battletech still active, and thus is the only real representation of the Battletech brand outside of materials related to tabletop. However, regardless of breadth, the rules are the same. Reseen mechs are legal for use regardless of media. HG hasn't lifted a finger to stop Battletech printed materials, figures, so-on, so-forth, as long as they don't specifically infringe on the copyrights they hold.

I mean... look at the Marauder IIC I posted up there. That's not too far off from the original Marauder art, but HG hasn't seen fit to sue FASA or Iron Wind Metals over it.

Anjian, on 28 June 2015 - 07:12 PM, said:

Your reasoning is correct. But... PGI still simply doesn't have the resources to match HG in court. They just don't.

FYI, Wizkid's Mechwarrior Dark Age sets did reintroduce the Unseen, Marauder, Warhammer, Rifleman and the like. HG could have challenged them but they didn't. Why? Because Wizkids was owned by Topps. Big company, backed by an investment firm run by Michael Eisner. The Michael Eisner.

One company has an army of lawyers (Topps). The other doesn't (PGI). Its as simple as that.

Remember, PGI is a developer building Mechwarrior games under license from Microsoft. Microsoft owns the rights to Mechwarrior. By your own logic, Microsoft's army of lawyers far outstrips even Topps.

[MBT808]

To be honest, the whole issue with harmony gold is silly. From what I understand from the reading I've done on the subject, the unseen mechs were a result of the owners rights not being clear at the time and resulted in a misunderstanding and unnecessary actions on harmony golds part. Also from what I can tell harmony gold really seem to hate battletech for this reason and there refusing to let their little grudge go.

I also wouldn't count on Sony for rights either, considering MWO is a game owned my Microsoft and their competition. So Sony would probably not be an option. I think if there was a legal battle, harmony gold would likely lose it since Microsoft could probably buy their whole company and they would have no choice but to give mwo the rights to the unseen mech. But that's somewhat unlikely to happen(especially the buy out part). The best way to get Microsoft involved would be to appeal to their wallet. If PGI could convince Microsoft that the rights are Worth the effort, Microsoft will back them up without a doubt.

The only other alternative would be to introduce the unseen mechs, but be careful and make them a certain percentage different compared to the robotech/other mechs that there's nothing that Harmony gold can claim cause their different enough to be seperate designs legally speaking. At least if I understand how it works legally anyways.

[Rhent]

Robotech always was a bit of a crap anime, the IP is just about crap now compared to modern day animes. Good luck with that blockbuster of a loss.

[MeiSooHaityu]

What Sony hasn't said yet, is the new Robotech movie is going to be a Adam Sandler/Happy Madison production!

Seriously, could you imagine the rage and tears? Some evil stuff there.

[CygnusX7]

Considering that.. I'd think PGI was owned by Adam Sandler. His productions do have a Canadian feel to them.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

MoonUnitBeta, on 27 June 2015 - 04:59 PM, said:

No. Sony doesn't own Robotech. Sony can only make a movie. HG still has all the rights and they're still going to be D-bags. Just the same as ever.

arent they all in jail or something? How do you sue from there

[MoonUnitBeta]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 10 August 2015 - 12:22 PM, said:

arent they all in jail or something? How do you sue from there

OOoh?! Music to my ears! Hahaha
That would be wonderful.
Let’s send them fanart renditions of the Marauder and Warhammer engaged in sexually suggestive positions that say "Enjoy your time! Love/from: Mechwarrior fans. Macross FTL!"