351 replies to this topic

[EgoSlayer]

Mcgral18, on 29 June 2015 - 10:05 AM, said:

I don't believe that's the case; it should have 10HP like any other miscellaneous item in the mech, where the engine is 15HP, and do absolutely nothing special when destroyed.

Might be wrong, but that would greatly surprise me.
<snip>

A critical from a Gauss does 15 damage to the component - most components are only 10HP, so PPCs, and IS AC10/AC20 all can one shot crit components since a critical hit does 100% of the weapon damage to the component. The only percentage that gets applied to damage on critical is the bonus damage to the internal structure.
But if it isn't working then really all the crits in the head are useless crit padding for the one open slot and may as well be actuators as far as game mechanics are concerned.

[Jman5]

Mcgral18, on 29 June 2015 - 08:05 AM, said:

Yeah, I'm actually very surprised by all the negativity. I posted it on Outreach to get a discussion on it, and all I got was downvotes and insults.

Here I am trying to educate people on how the game works, and they don't even post their thoughts on it. How the hell did they manage to get the good reputation?


They are fully for Instagibs, and completely against discussions.

Don't let it get to you. The line of thinking for most people is this:

1. I rarely get headshotted
2. Therefore this isn't a big problem
3. Therefore I am against whatever you are proposing.

If you're right, and I believe you are, you will need to prove it by smashing your opponents faces in (literately) again and again. Like I said before, the best way to change peoples mind is to make it their problem.

Why do you think I started using LRMs? Back in December I tried to argue that LRMs were useful for a team, but most people refused to listen. So the only alternative I had was to show them myself. Along the way I started having way too much fun with them to switch back. I suspect if you can get good enough to headshot with at least some consistency, you'll also start having way too much fun. (and probably max out your Elo along the way)

Edited by Jman5, 29 June 2015 - 10:36 AM.

[mogs01gt]

I agree with the OP but I dont think that is the soul issue with the Gauss. The Gauss simply works to well at range and in close quarter combat, the charge mechanic needs removed and another form of balance needs created.

[MilesTeg1982]

so its this time of the month again - the "someone killed me with dual gauss so I make up some theoretical arguments and cry for a nerf"-thread ...

seriously we had the exact same discussion several times now - its really getting boring.

Gauss is one of the very few weapons in game which is not out of balance - neither is dual gauss - want some arguments -> use the search button of the forum, you'll find plenty

[Alistair Winter]

Mystere, on 29 June 2015 - 07:55 AM, said:

I'd rather players get educated than the game get dumbed down even more.

Well, sure, I agree. Are you implying I want the game to get dumbed down?

[Alistair Winter]

WM Quicksilver, on 29 June 2015 - 09:10 AM, said:

Complexity for the sake of complexity is not good. It should add depth to gameplay, and it really doesn't here.

I absolutely agree. Hence my suggestion in another thread about weapon synergy. If getting crits was a bigger deal in MWO, it would add much needed depth to the gameplay. But that kind of requires that the common player is aware of it, not just the comp teams and the forum patrons who remembers everything PGI writes in their patch notes over several years.

Agent 0 Fortune, on 29 June 2015 - 09:36 AM, said:

Sadly, the bonus damage is in lieu of a more robust critical system, one that includes engines, gyros, sensors, and life support. I am also on the fence regarding equipment health, in TT a component was destroyed if it was hit by an AC2, a MD laser, or any other weapon, in MWO, only weapons capable of doing 10 damage can reliably destroy equipment, making it far more likely that a location will be destroyed before equipment.

Yeah, it's sad. I wish death in MWO was more gradual and I wish you would gradually lose gyros, actuators, sensors, heat sinks, etc as you took more damage. It'd be nice to hear Bitching Betty list every destroyed equipment / ammo container / weapon as your mech falls apart. Of course, she does some of that stuff now, but not all of it. And it's somewhat rare to have a long, drawn-out death, due to relatively low TTK.

[Wintersdark]

EgoSlayer, on 29 June 2015 - 10:01 AM, said:

I believe that it only takes one Critical hit from Gauss, PPC, or AC10+ - if the critical hit is to the cockpit. I believe that Cockpit destroyed is a functioning mechanic, but it's still rare to see it happen.

Nope.

All "grey" components can suffer crits, but none of them actually do anything if destroyed. The only way to kill via headshot is to actually destroy the head itself.

[Ultimax]

Jman5, on 29 June 2015 - 10:27 AM, said:

If you're right, and I believe you are, you will need to prove it by smashing your opponents faces in (literately) again and again. Like I said before, the best way to change peoples mind is to make it their problem.

Nothing can change my opinion on this.


I fully support 30 - 35 tons of weapons (includes ammo) being able to headshot kill a target.


So if the crit system is changed, then I'd like to see Head Internal Structure reduced to compensate to allow this.


Why?


Because it's hard to do, it's rare and it adds an element of danger to the game that I like without it being so easily repeatable as to consistently circumvent the rest of the armor/component system.




Headshotting in FPS games is common, and while we are piloting giant stompy robots - we do have cockpits/heads where the pilot is and blowing through that with 2x Gauss rifles seems plausible.

[DONTOR]

Nice! I only need 25 more headshots for 100, and I wasn't previously aware Dual Gauss could 1 hit, I will have to start plinking away at my last 25 now!

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Alistair Winter, on 29 June 2015 - 11:17 AM, said:

Yeah, it's sad. I wish death in MWO was more gradual and I wish you would gradually lose gyros, actuators, sensors, heat sinks, etc as you took more damage. It'd be nice to hear Bitching Betty list every destroyed equipment / ammo container / weapon as your mech falls apart. Of course, she does some of that stuff now, but not all of it. And it's somewhat rare to have a long, drawn-out death, due to relatively low TTK.

The only problem is this only exacerbates the snowball effect we already currently entertain. Part of the reason that was even a thing in BT was because matches would last much longer than they already did without the "falling apart" effect and some of those matches take forever. TTK would have to go up past Closed Beta levels for that to be appropriate gameplay wise imo. It is one of those things that appealed to me when they first announced a new MW entry, but after a while I realized that gameplay wise MW4 was headed in the right direction in that regard.



EDIT:

Ultimatum X, on 29 June 2015 - 11:21 AM, said:

Because it's hard to do, it's rare and it adds an element of danger to the game that I like without it being so easily repeatable as to consistently circumvent the rest of the armor/component system.

This is just my thought experiment, but I would actually prefer it not necessarily be an instagib (if the next part were implemented in its place). That said, I would love to see things like it, in that each section has one or too tiny hitboxes that when hit, pass through the armor and deal full damage to a section's internals. So rather than large armorable rear sections, you would have "exhaust port" sized weakpoints on the rear torso areas that would deal damage directly to internals.

It would never be a part of MWO not to mention would maybe cause issues with regards to so many hitboxes with special conditions, but it would be interesting to see.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 29 June 2015 - 11:32 AM.

[Mcgral18]

MilesTeg1982, on 29 June 2015 - 11:06 AM, said:

so its this time of the month again - the "someone killed me with dual gauss so I make up some theoretical arguments and cry for a nerf"-thread ...

seriously we had the exact same discussion several times now - its really getting boring.

Gauss is one of the very few weapons in game which is not out of balance - neither is dual gauss - want some arguments -> use the search button of the forum, you'll find plenty

No actually, I've been the one doing the killing in one shot.


I thought I'd test it, and share my findings. It seems there's quite a few people not reading.


Where's the last thread that mentioned one shotting with Dual Gauss? Get them for me, support your argument. My OP has the evidence how how the crit system works, and how the Gauss Rifle is one of the best crit weapons out there, along with having the best range, second best damage, fastest travel time and among the easiest weapon to use.



I'm not doing crying; I'm examining the weapon system and sharing my findings. What are you doing?

[MilesTeg1982]

Mcgral18, on 29 June 2015 - 11:38 AM, said:

I thought I'd test it, and share my findings. It seems there's quite a few people not reading.

rubbish - you can not translate testing grounds into a real match - you are making something up here kid. The only reason why people do that is because they want a weapon to get nerfed - so congrats, your bright enough for not directly asking for the nerf, does not change anything.

wanna know how I know you are making something up? Cause I actually do use Dual Gauss builds (798K EXP on DWF Primes, 826K EXP with DWF-B, 837K EXP on DWF-A, 1.232K EXP on CTF-4X - all of them with Dual Gauss and not even considering other Dual Gauss Mechs I tried over time). Headshot happen very rarely, Headshot kill with no other damage done? never experienced that. Most of the time - 1-shot-kills actually happens is someone turning his back to a high alpha build with very little or no rear armor - congrats, there is only 1 way to fix this: nerf brain

ps. this forum actually does have a working search funktion - just enter dual gauss ...

Edited by MilesTeg1982, 29 June 2015 - 11:50 AM.

[Mcgral18]

MilesTeg1982, on 29 June 2015 - 11:49 AM, said:

rubbish - you can not translate testing grounds into a real match - you are making something up here kid. The only reason why people do that is because they want a weapon to get nerfed - so congrats, your bright enough for not directly asking for the nerf, does not change anything.

wanna know how I know you are making something up? Cause I actually do use Dual Gauss builds (798K EXP on DWF Primes, 826K EXP with DWF-B, 837K EXP on DWF-A, 1.232K EXP on CTF-4X - all of them with Dual Gauss and not even considering other Dual Gauss Mechs I tried over time). Headshot happen very rarely, Headshot kill with no other damage done? never experienced that. Most of the time - 1-shot-kills actually happens is someone turning his back to a high alpha build with very little or no rear armor - congrats, there is only 1 way to fix this: nerf brain

ps. this forum actually does have a working search funktion - just enter dual gauss ...

So, you're just spewing ********, is what you're saying.


You don't want to back up any of your statements, and have nothing to refute my facts?


The Training Grounds is exactly how the live game works. Please, at least try.

[MilesTeg1982]

Mcgral18, on 29 June 2015 - 11:55 AM, said:

The Training Grounds is exactly how the live game works. Please, at least try.

of course enemie players don't move, you don't have screen shake from weapon impacts and there is a latency of 0 in a real match ... there is really no difference to testing grounds

[Mcgral18]

MilesTeg1982, on 29 June 2015 - 11:59 AM, said:

of course enemie players don't move, you don't have screen shake from weapon impacts and there is a latency of 0 in a real match ... there is really no difference to testing grounds

Which does nothing to prevent 30 PP FLD decapitating 33 IS+A.


Go try it on an Atlas some time. They have a clearly defined hitbox unlike, say, a Catapult (it's the higher window, not the lower one or the sides) or most Clam cockpits.


Atlas you can get with Lasers (which is considerably harder than Gauss, despite hitscan).



The mechanics remain the same, which is what I'm showcasing.

[MilesTeg1982]

Mcgral18, on 29 June 2015 - 12:03 PM, said:

Atlas you can get with Lasers (which is considerably harder than Gauss, despite hitscan).

I'll believe you if you show me a video of someone killing enemie mechs (no matter which one) with dual gauss headshots and no other damage in real matches several time and being able to repeat that. Have fun trying, see you in a 1000 years

[Mcgral18]

MilesTeg1982, on 29 June 2015 - 12:09 PM, said:

I'll believe you if you show me a video of someone killing enemie mechs (no matter which one) with dual gauss headshots and no other damage in real matches several time and being able to repeat that. Have fun trying, see you in a 1000 years

I see you've given up.


Can you recommend a video capture software? 30 seconds of FRAPs isn't ideal.

[MilesTeg1982]

Mcgral18, on 29 June 2015 - 12:21 PM, said:

I see you've given up.

you are not working for the greek gouverment, are you?

[EgoSlayer]

MilesTeg1982, on 29 June 2015 - 12:09 PM, said:

I'll believe you if you show me a video of someone killing enemie mechs (no matter which one) with dual gauss headshots and no other damage in real matches several time and being able to repeat that. Have fun trying, see you in a 1000 years

Wow, really? The mechanic is the exact same, real match or testing ground. The mechanics and health don't change. Two people in a private match could demonstrate the same thing, it would just require two people with premium time to prove, but it's completely necessary in this case because the testing ground mechanics are the exact same.

FYI I've dual Gauss head shot mechs in match at least twice. It can happen, it's just rare. And hard when people are moving round avoiding fire - but that is completely irrelevant in the discussion of *if* it can happen because the testing here is about the *mechanic* (it can happen) not the frequency of the occurance.

[Mcgral18]

MilesTeg1982, on 29 June 2015 - 12:23 PM, said:

you are not working for the greek gouverment, are you?

You don't want me to prove you wrong?

At least post something useful, or just stop.