351 replies to this topic

[Kristov Kerensky]

Mcgral18, on 28 June 2015 - 06:39 PM, said:

I've got no problem with Gauss doing 30 damage and being very easy to use

As you say, I don't like how it's one of the best crit weapons in the game, with 1 point of heat, and the longest range in the game because it still has 3x optimal.


Changing that also changes 30 damage becoming greater than 33, in this case.



Other option is to fix PP FLD being the best crit weapons in the game.

The 'fix' to this problem is to make crits work as they SHOULD, damage to armor is only to armor, no crits until you've removed all the armor and are dealing damage directly to the internals, damage split between armor and internals shouldn't be considered for a crit, problem solved, for those who consider this a problem.

Again, I have no issues with it as it stands right now, I EXPECT to get 1 shot kills if my cockpit takes enough damage, it's part of TT, it's part of EVERY single PvP game I play where skill with aim matters and the body has targetable areas like the head. BF, CoD, PS2, many others over the decades, it's a common thing and PvPers expect it, AIM means something.

[Mystere]

DoctorDetroit, on 28 June 2015 - 06:30 PM, said:

I am for limiting any one shot potential because it dissuades hackers. Good players wont go for cockpit so it wont hurt real gameplay. Only a positive benefit to stop 1 shot potential.

Doing away with the hacker bogeyman, or any other bogeyman for that matter, would be much better for the game than dumbing it down further for the LCD crowd.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Its possible to one shot mechs with an alpha on their inner sphere XL engine critted side torsos.

Its possible to one shot mechs with an alpha in a rear center torso.

Why don't people petition PGI to ban side torso and rear torso one shots?

[Mystere]

I Zeratul I, on 28 June 2015 - 07:19 PM, said:

Its possible to one shot mechs with an alpha on their inner sphere XL engine critted side torsos.

Its possible to one shot mechs with an alpha in a rear center torso.

Why don't people petition PGI to ban side torso and rear torso one shots?

I presume head shots have a severe psychological dimension attached to them. It is the same as seeing a single person beheaded as compared to an entire family being blown to bits by a 1000 pound bomb.

Edited by Mystere, 28 June 2015 - 07:34 PM.

[DAYLEET]

Mystere, on 28 June 2015 - 07:12 PM, said:

Hold a second! It looks like you were initially for it, and then you were against it. Make up your mind. Do you consider it a problem or not?

I don't consider it a problem.

Jman is right, stuff don't get fixed until people abuse it. Go ahead abuse headshot if you can.

[Lostdragon]

I Zeratul I, on 28 June 2015 - 07:19 PM, said:

Its possible to one shot mechs with an alpha on their inner sphere XL engine critted side torsos.

Its possible to one shot mechs with an alpha in a rear center torso.

Why don't people petition PGI to ban side torso and rear torso one shots?

Because we gave up on the fight to get PGI to remove perfect convergence. This was discussed ad nauseam for over two years, especially by people who play the lightest mechs, and PGI has never given any indication they even consider it an issue or want to do anything about it. If you play a light you just have to accept the fact that sometimes you are gonna get one shot by dual gauss or AC40s and that isn't likely to change.

[Dino Might]

Surprising that anyone has a problem with the state of play now, because it's so uncommon to get headshotted as to be a negligible factor when considering mech design. It is similar to the front/back armor spread debate. At the end of the day, tally up how many times you died to CT front vs back cored out, RT/LT front vs back cored out, and Head destroyed, then adjust armor values to try and balance those statistics to your preference.

As for getting one-shotted, just play a Locust. Then any torso is essentially your head - you get hit with dual gauss on something other than an arm, your game is over. I like it that way. Adds to the excitement when you are making the mad, serpentine dash to safety.

Edited by Dino Might, 28 June 2015 - 07:44 PM.

[Mystere]

DAYLEET, on 28 June 2015 - 07:35 PM, said:

I don't consider it a problem.

Jman is right, stuff don't get fixed until people abuse it. Go ahead abuse headshot if you can.

And therein lies my issue with this whole thing. Why even imply that something needs "fixing" when it is not even considered a real problem.

Lostdragon, on 28 June 2015 - 07:37 PM, said:

Because we gave up on the fight to get PGI to remove perfect convergence. This was discussed ad nauseam for over two years, especially by people who play the lightest mechs, and PGI has never given any indication they even consider it an issue or want to do anything about it. If you play a light you just have to accept the fact that sometimes you are gonna get one shot by dual gauss or AC40s and that isn't likely to change.

And I am perfectly fine with that. I'm just going to have to rely on speed, stealth, and guile to stay alive while at the same time I am trying to kill you.

Edited by Mystere, 28 June 2015 - 07:47 PM.

[DAYLEET]

Mystere, on 28 June 2015 - 07:46 PM, said:

And therein lies my issue with this whole thing. Why even imply that something needs "fixing" when it is not even considered a real problem.

If you think it's a problem, and i say it's not, then you should make it my problem. But as a general rule, in multiplayer video games, if there's a but or an exploit, the best if not only way to get it fixed is to abuse it.

[Wintersdark]

As I said elsewhere, I don't think it's a problem. I have lots of issues with our crit system, but this isn't one of them.

Cockpitting a moving, fighting mech is HARD. If someone just stares at a dual gauss or similarly kitted mech, they deserve what happens to them.

Hell, one shotting mechs is even easier in tabletop, though as a "for balance, core rule ignore" guy I shouldn't make that argument.

This is not a problem.





I can still count the times I've been one shot (via cockpit) on one hand... In three years of play. Three years!

I won't agree this is a problem until it's happening very rampant against moving, fighting targets.

[Tarogato]

Alan Davion, on 28 June 2015 - 06:13 PM, said:

If there were images around here that highlighted where the head/ct hit boxes differentiated, ...

Plus that's a lot of mechs to go around and attempt to highlight just where the head hit box actually is.

Here you go: http://mwomercs.com/...x-localization/

[627]

I have no mech with more than 12 points of armor in the head. Not even the catapults have that, and those where notorious for the big head hitbox.

Even if I shut down due to overheat I don't get beheaded. Head hitbox is so tiny that it seems noone even bother to shoot it.

And that makes sense in a way - If you hit the head and don't get lucky with crits or stripped armor, you "wasted" a perfectly good alpha. That 30 or whatever Damage could have killed or severely hurt the CT, instead it hit a component you will likely miss with your next shot.

And hitting the cockpit with both gauss rounds is another story. In my experience this is what makes the cat so unique, the guns are tight. With the jager and phract with the wide arms, I often get mixed results where those shiny balls hit.

So in the end, with all the drawbacks of the gauss, it totally should be able to behead a mech.
That's always called a Luckshot and should be in the game.

[Ace Selin]

Im OK with Dual Gauss or any other very high damage weapon having a very tiny but possible chance to head shot kill me.
Its only happened twice to me, once i overheated and got killed (my fault) and the other time was a lucky shot into my Jagers cockpit whilst fighting.

I've been killed the same amount of times by Arty/Airstrikes to the head (in my lights), and would rather the head shot chance of Arty/Airstrikes be lowered.

[kapusta11]

Shouldn't hitting really small hitbox be somehow rewarded? How can one hate fun so much?

[Shikata nai]

#badplayerscryingforeasiergame

[Moldur]

Hats off to the people that can get insta gib headshots. If it were an issue, we would see it more.

[jss78]

I've been head-shotted about 3 times in my ~1000 games. And I routinely reduce head armour to save weight, as well as store ammo in the head, because it's so rare to get hit there.

In general I don't mind that slight chance of being one-shot killed. Maybe I'm a masochist, but I kind of enjoy that feeling that no matter what you do, you're never completely safe. Keeps you honest.

Edited by jss78, 29 June 2015 - 01:20 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Lachesis Muta, on 29 June 2015 - 01:05 AM, said:

#badplayerscryingforeasiergame

McGral is anything but a bad player crying for an easier game.

I don't agree this is a problem, but I respect where he's coming from here. He wants longer TTK, doesn't want instagib shots.

He deserves the respect at least of a proper response.

[Shikata nai]

Wintersdark, on 29 June 2015 - 01:21 AM, said:

McGral is anything but a bad player crying for an easier game.

I don't agree this is a problem, but I respect where he's coming from here. He wants longer TTK, doesn't want instagib shots.

He deserves the respect at least of a proper response.

Longer TTK will make this game so much more boring and tbh anyone who is moveing properly won't be headshot except due to luck of the opponent. If someone is staying around he pretty much deserves the headshot of a solid player.

[Wintersdark]

Lachesis Muta, on 29 June 2015 - 01:23 AM, said:

Longer TTK will make this game so much more boring and tbh anyone who is moveing properly won't be headshot except due to luck of the opponent. If someone is staying around he pretty much deserves the headshot of a solid player.

a fair response.

I disagree about TTK. Longer TTK means players need more skill to win, as a single lucky shot is insufficient to kill. You need to out brawl your opponent, do more accurate damage rather than just trying to push ever more damage out.

The game is, IMHO, always improved by longer TTK.

Still, I don't feel the dual gauss headshot being an instagib some 17 percent of the time is a problem for largely the reasons you state (and have already been said in the thread) it just doesn't happen enough to warrant fixing.

Edited by Wintersdark, 29 June 2015 - 01:32 AM.