Nightshade24, on 03 July 2015 - 04:13 AM, said:
Mathematically speaking the New player standard income of 50k to 70k per game (minus cadet bouns) would remain the same, if not increase by 5k.
Or you could just increase payouts without R&R.
Quote
On top of that due to the fact new people play trails (which is repair-less) would actually reach there first mech faster.
Not after they have their first mech. When I say new player, I don't just mean people right out of the gate; I mean players with < 500 drops. It's not about the first mech - if anything, it's not an issue before their first mech. After you've bought a mech, game design that forces you back into yucky trials is bad: Buying that first mech should be progress, something you're glad to have done.
Again, I say this as someone
who has played through it, not someone who just talked about it with people who were there (and often remember it with rose colored glasses) then drew their own conclusions with regards to how players would act.
Quote
Also for the cheap people out there they can do as I mentioned above and wait for the free repair time or wait a bit through it while playing another mech to play. Like me.
Playing in another mech is great when your an established player, not an option for a new player. Being forced to wait to play again is patently bad game design, too - you want players to keep dropping, to populate the matchmaker and make games better for everyone.
Quote
And yes, player behavoir is a problem, hence why we need the repair and rearm cost in game. It would stop people giving up so fast just because they lost there favourite PPC on there mech under the first 3 minutes and stuff and make people want to fight for longer instead of giving up. and looking at player behavour in previous events that supported players surviving a match (minus the raging near the end for the event...) it proved rather possitive, people used tactics more often and I had some of the best games I had in a long time in MW: O... I also saw more light mechs then heavies as well and such and assaults not randomly wondering off by themself as often.
Now, please don't misunderstand me. I'm not trying to be hostile, or argumentative. But this paragraph of yours?
YOU ARE HORRIBLY WRONG.
R&R does NOT cause people to stop giving up so fast. You'd think it would, but you'd be terribly wrong. People don't react that way in practice with R&R. What actually happened - what happened before, and will again - is that people play extra cautiously, and if they see things going poorly, they run and hide. Because right now, fighting to the bitter end is at least fun for most of us, and in the worst possible case nets you a bit more damage done, maybe a couple component destructions, maybe even another kill (and all these things end up with you being paid more!) In R&R, you have to decide: Do you keep fighting, or run and hide and shut down, hopefully to escape further harm? The earlier you run, the less damage you take, and the less you pay to reload and repair.
Quote
And new players behavour is already quite passive, they can't really get more passive then they are now...
HAHAHAHAHAHA!
You have no idea. Player behaviour absolutely can get more passive than it is now. More using allies for cover (because if they take damage instead of you, they have to pay to repair that damage instead of you). More staying back. More camping. Skirmish and Assault games would get *awful* because fighting from a defensive position > attacking one, and nobody EVER wants to lead the push because the first mech over the ridge is the one who pays the highest repair bills.
Quote
How ever I am not a heartless forumer. and would probably see the first 25 matches in your own mech provide free repairs as a congratulations from the MRBC for having your mercenary career grow.
Yeah, again: This only pushes it back. I'll address this more fully at the end of this post.
Quote
As I said, economic changes would occur. People who do not try / give up will get punished the most from this. While players that do try regardless of skill level would get equal or more rewards after implementation... and thanks to Elo.
Elo does work, but it works best in the "average player" range, and "average player" is a very broad range. Beyond that, it doesn't work so well, and in the group queue it may as well not be there at all. Also, at off hours it's sketchy at best.
Quote
R&R isn't a rich get richer and poorer get poorer... and ironically the new players will get the less impacts from this and this change supports nothing but less random charges and more co ordination. perhaps you ignored my earlier comments on the economy changes and alternate repair methods.
It has absolutely no effect on random charges and coordination. Players who will coordinate do, players who won't still don't. Again, this from experience.
Quote
And this isn't just role playing nonsense (even though that's 96% of us here atm are mainly for... haven't you seen most of the major units? CWI? CGBI? etc...) etc... it helps make a better economy as well as change the player behavior for the best.
I'm a member of CGBI. But units are still a small fraction of the overall player base. A majority of us forumgoers perhaps are role playing fans, but too much of a role playing focus tends to dissuade a lot of other players. As to "a better economy", again - the end of this post.
Quote
And people running away and hidding isn't exactly that annoying, I can quit any time and play another mech for eg or simply have fun on the easter egg hunt for the free kill... however it would occur less often as I did mention eject for ALL game modes. Thus people do not need to hide or suicide anymore.
People running away and hiding IS a problem, if you are on the winning team. You can't disconnect, or you lose earnings (you don't get the win bonus, etc, thanks to the anti-disconnect farming changes). If you're dead, sure, you can just disconnect, but that's only helpful when you're dead.
Eject allowed? Ok, things are starting to look bad, I've taken a bit of damage, but the game is still close. POP! I eject, save myself a lot of repairs, and screw those guys who are now down an otherwise functioning mechwarrior. They're screwed now... So another player on that team, seeing one eject and knowing they were already in a poor place, and now people are ejecting? That player ejects too. It's over for the rest.
And that's just smart play. Like how pro players play Texas Holdem and farm rookies: You don't play to win any given hand, you just fold instantly if your draw isn't statistically good. Minimal cost to get into the game, better odds when you only play the good hands mean you earn more money over multiple matches.
Now, the Economy, and how R&R doesn't help. In a perfect R&R implementation, it doesn't HURT, but it can't help. Assume players always repair their mechs, so you subtract that from the average match earnings to get the average net income. Whatever your desired average net income is, you get that either by having match rewards = desired net income, or match rewards - R&R = desired net income. Either way, you get the desired net income you want.
The difference, is that players fear death more with R&R. Players fear risk more. Despite aggressive play being a far better path to victory than passive play. This is an objective truth: passive play - not defensive play, but passive play - is the best way to lose matches. However, being the lone aggressive player on a passive team is a great way to die early, too. Thus, matches are very often decided by who has fewest passive players.
R&R makes that worse, as players become unreasonably risk adverse, and more players bring sub-par mechs to the battle. Not just "low tier" mechs, which players bring all the time, but mechs and builds designed to exploit R&R. They don't bother fully repairing their mechs. Then, like the Texas Holdem example above, they play the odds: Your bringing a dramatically sub-standard mech to the match so if you lose, it costs you essentially nothing, but if the rest of your team carries you you still earn a lot. That
happens, regardless of the balance. I remember my intense frustration, playing my first mech, and looking at the mechs I spawned beside. I'd see a couple zombie Centurions (that is, not Centurions equipped to zombie fight, but ones that hadn't been repaired, and only had their two CT Medium Lasers. And I'd know, right then, that that particular match was already lost unless freakishly the opposing team also had a lot of unrepaired mechs. So, the match was lost, and what's more I was going to lose even more money in unnecessary repairs.
In the end: Players make the desired average amount of money overall - that's an easy design point - but they are unreasonably discouraged by losses due to R&R, and that discourages play overall. Even if you actually are making the target amount, the same cbills per hour they'd make without R&R.
BUT THAT'S NOT ALL!
Now we get to the "exploits/griefing" section.
Rick and Rich see you in a match, just out of a brawl, with badly damaged armor but still ok, having just downed one of their teammates. In the early stages of his engagement with you, they strip your weapons. They could just kill you, but what fun is that? Oh, no. Instead, they take their time, tearing off your arms, a leg, both side torsos, before finally CT coring you. Woohoo! Massive repair bills! Awesome! Or instead, you eject the moment someone has you in a two on one, leaving your team down some damage done to the OPFOR, and no opportunity to save you.
Teams specialize in this, but at least for teams it goes both ways. Random solo players though? Rarely does word really get sufficiently around. It didn't really in the old days with a MUCH smaller player base, it certainly won't now.
13
you have a massive can opener but you're gonna run out of ammo fast.
