94 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

Pjwned, on 29 June 2015 - 03:49 PM, said:

How is that not absurdly overpowered if that's true, especially with access to clan XL engines which are still broken?

And uber hardpoint inflation.


Without the inflation, they would still have been good, just not overbearingly so; but PGI went and DOUBLED the bloody things.

[FupDup]

Pjwned, on 29 June 2015 - 03:49 PM, said:

How is that not absurdly overpowered if that's true, especially with access to clan XL engines which are still broken?

PGI's answer is probably to the effect of "lol."

To be fair, though, maybe that so-called "Rebalancing of Everything" in the next 1-2 months might help out in this regard.

[Ultimax]

Kristov Kerensky, on 29 June 2015 - 03:22 PM, said:

Russ said in the Town Hall that the IIC follows the standard BattleMech construction rules, you can swap engines, Endo or Ferro, and so on. They aren't OmniMechs, there are no OmniPods, they are BattleMechs designed and built by the Clans using the original Star League Defense Forces blueprints and updated with Clan Tech.

So basically when players wanted mixed tech, and people said "IS would then be OP over Clans", PGI decided to then give that ability exactly, to the faction that currently has all of the top tiers occupied at every weight class except lights, which is soon to be over.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 29 June 2015 - 03:57 PM.

[FupDup]

Ultimatum X, on 29 June 2015 - 03:56 PM, said:

So basically when players wanted mixed tech, and people said "IS would then be OP over Clans", PGI decided to then give that ability exactly, to the faction that currently has all of the top tiers occupied at every weight class except lights, which is soon to be over.

While the IIC mechs do have the very real potential of being metalords, it doesn't fit the definition of "mixed tech." Mixed tech means equipping IS mechs with Clan stuff and equipping Clan mechs with IS stuff. For example, putting an IS AC/20 on a Hellbringer or a Clan Medium Pulse Laser on a Vindicator.

The IIC mechs are still Clan mechs using Clan stuff, just with the often desirable Battlemech customization rules instead of Omnimech customization rules.

Edited by FupDup, 29 June 2015 - 04:01 PM.

[Greenjulius]

This kind of sickens me. If the mechs had the same number of hardpoints as their IS counterparts, I'd be more likely to accept it. However, the combo of the following makes this hard to take:

1.) Clan XL - Need I say more?
2.) Clan Weapons - weigh less, more damage, more range
3.) Fully min/max capable - now you aren't limited to the single engine choice, and you can't complain about being "forced" into Clan XL, because you can STD as much as you want.
4.) MORE HARDPOINTS - WHY? This makes zero sense. Clan weapons already do more damage per hardpoint than IS weapons. Did these mechs really need more hardpoints?

Up to this point, power creep has been somewhat subtle. An extra hardpoint here, a better designed overall mech there. This straight up just make the four IS counterparts inferior. I only own Jenners out of the group, but this Jenner IIC is so much better in every regard that it's an insult to Oxide owners.

They really need to explain why it even makes sense to own any of the old mechs. I want to hear more information on the limitations of this new crop of power creeping mechs.

This crap is making time to kill shorter and shorter with each new wave, and it's destroying the previously unique gameplay. We are getting too close to having Mech of Duty rather than Mechwarrior.

Edited by Greenjulius, 29 June 2015 - 04:04 PM.

[0rionsbane]

Orion IIC, god i want it, but i wonder if its worth it. probably gonna get it because well, target audience. i hope on the Is side of things we get some more tech like LFE etc, and probably another massive quirk overhaul to try and balance the outliers i still dont get why they ever would give a mech 50% to a weapon or more than 10% to heat reduction its just asking for op.

[Mavairo]

Greenjulius, on 29 June 2015 - 04:00 PM, said:

This kind of sickens me. If the mechs had the same number of hardpoints as their IS counterparts, I'd be more likely to accept it. However, the combo of the following makes this hard to take:

1.) Clan XL - Need I say more?
2.) Clan Weapons - weigh less, more damage, more range
3.) Fully min/max capable

Up to this point, power creep has been somewhat subtle. An extra hardpoint here, a better designed overall mech there. This straight up just make the four IS counterparts inferior. I only own Jenners out of the group, but this Jenner IIC is so much better in every regard that it's an insult to Oxide owners.

They really need to explain why it even makes sense to own any of the old mechs. I want to hear more information on the limitations of this new crop of power creeping mechs.

And you know full well that this is going to replace every single old mech too eventually.

Screw This. I think it's time for a break from mwo.

[Mechteric]

If the unseens make an appearance, I would almost guarantee it would have to be the IS variants first, not their IIC variants.

Only because doing otherwise would be kinda lame :-P

[Pjwned]

FupDup, on 29 June 2015 - 03:50 PM, said:

PGI's answer is probably to the effect of "lol."

To be fair, though, maybe that so-called "Rebalancing of Everything" in the next 1-2 months might help out in this regard.

If PGI is "rebalancing everything" because they're introducing absurdly overpowered mechs then I can't imagine their efforts will be anything other than dogshit, especially given their track record.

I'm trying not to jump to conclusions too fast, but I didn't realize those IIC mechs are battlemechs and that PGI seems to have deemed it unnecessary to balance them properly, so I hope PGI has some good answers but this sounds like the anvil that broke the camel's back to me.

Edited by Pjwned, 29 June 2015 - 04:06 PM.

[FupDup]

Pjwned, on 29 June 2015 - 04:04 PM, said:

If PGI is "rebalancing everything" because they're introducing absurdly overpowered mechs then I can't imagine their efforts will be anything other than dogshit, especially given their track record.

I'm trying not to jump to conclusions too fast, but I didn't realize those IIC mechs are battlemechs and that PGI seems to have deemed it unnecessary to balance them properly, so I hope PGI has some good answers, but this sounds like the anvil that broke the camel's back to me.

Well, we'll see. So far the changes have been hush-hush, but Sean Lang insists that it's a "gamechanger." Supposedly it might be up for testing in the PTS sometime in July, but I would expect that date to slip by.

[Alan Davion]

0rionsbane, on 29 June 2015 - 04:01 PM, said:

Orion IIC, god i want it, but i wonder if its worth it. probably gonna get it because well, target audience. i hope on the Is side of things we get some more tech like LFE etc, and probably another massive quirk overhaul to try and balance the outliers i still dont get why they ever would give a mech 50% to a weapon or more than 10% to heat reduction its just asking for op.

In the Town Hall they did say that over the next couple months there's going to be sweeping, top-to-bottom balance fixes across the board, as well as I think physical overhauls to a number of mechs.

I do imagine that there will be some stuff introduced to help the IS keep balance with the Clans, as the IICs won't be released until bleeding December.

[Kristov Kerensky]

IIC Mechs are pure Clan, they aren't Mixed, they are old Star League designs redone by the Clans with the Clan mentality and Tech. We've always known that Clan BattleMechs would far more powerful per se than the OmniMechs simply because they can swap all the same things IS BattleMechs can. Their limitation is their hardpoints, and the IIC Mechs aren't following that very well.

Jenner IIC comes with 3 short range racks on it, not 6. NONE of the Jenner IIC variants come with the number of weapons PGI has given them for hardpoints, and most of the other IIC Mechs are exactly the same, extreme hardpoint inflation.

We really need to pitch a serious fit over this, it's the ONLY limitation to the power level of the Clan BattleMechs, their hardpoints. Canon hardpoints make them powerful enough, but to go and double those makes them stupidly OP.

[Impyrium]

Ah, this forum. Such a fantastic source of positive, constructive attitudes...

Not only are these 'mechs waaaaaaay out until they're released which means there're probably not even finalised internally on how they will function, PGI made a big point during the Town Hall to say they're going to be looking at completely redoing the balance system.

So, before everyone commences Operation Overreaction, remember that A. It's a game, not your life, and B. This is a way out and highly subject to change... I seriously, seriously doubt even PGI will allow obviously highly advantaged machines into the game without some catch or negative point.

[ShadowSpirit]

Just saw the hard points on the IIC mechs ...

Bravo. Bravo.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Dingo Red, on 29 June 2015 - 04:21 PM, said:

Ah, this forum. Such a fantastic source of positive, constructive attitudes...

Not only are these 'mechs waaaaaaay out until they're released which means there're probably not even finalised internally on how they will function, PGI made a big point during the Town Hall to say they're going to be looking at completely redoing the balance system.

So, before everyone commences Operation Overreaction, remember that A. It's a game, not your life, and B. This is a way out and highly subject to change... I seriously, seriously doubt even PGI will allow obviously highly advantaged machines into the game without some catch or negative point.

You must be VERY new here if you think PGI won't add something that's so obviously OP, they've done it before, repeatedly, after being forewarned by the community that they are about to add something OP.

[Otto Cannon]

If the way these mechs will balance hasn't even been worked out yet, they shouldn't be selling them yet.

There's no 'but IGP made us do it' excuse to fall back on any more.

[Impyrium]

Kristov Kerensky, on 29 June 2015 - 04:32 PM, said:

You must be VERY new here if you think PGI won't add something that's so obviously OP, they've done it before, repeatedly, after being forewarned by the community that they are about to add something OP.

Not new at all, I'm just fed up with the constant negativity that often surrounds stuff like this.

An alternative is to be positive and consider that PGI isn't the same as they were many moons ago, and will take into account the consequences of what they're releasing before the release it.

[Ultimax]

FupDup, on 29 June 2015 - 03:59 PM, said:

While the IIC mechs do have the very real potential of being metalords, it doesn't fit the definition of "mixed tech."

That part is irrelevant.


Combining Battle mech customization, with superior Clan weapons, superior Clan Engines, superior Clan DHS, superior Clan Endo & Ferro, etc., is what people felt would be problematic.


Well, here we are. Except it's clan faction just getting even stronger.

[FupDup]

Ultimatum X, on 29 June 2015 - 04:50 PM, said:

That part is irrelevant.

Combining Battle mech customization, with superior Clan weapons, superior Clan Engines, superior Clan DHS, superior Clan Endo & Ferro, etc., is what people felt would be problematic.

Well, here we are. Except it's clan faction just getting even stronger.

I agree that it's problematic, I'm just playing semantics over definitions.

[Destructicus]

I love the Unseen as much as anybody but I can't believe people are still holding their breath.