60 replies to this topic

[zagibu]

WarZ, on 29 June 2015 - 09:35 PM, said:

People requesting the return of full blow pop tarting ...

... has got to be the most dumb-a**ed and SELFISH thing I've seen recently.

It was a BROKEN tactic. Therefore it was addressed numerous times. It was mostly nerfed out of the game for a REASON.

Begging for a return to that sh** storm is just plain stupid, short sighted, and completely selfish.

Epic face palming puts it lightly.

Well, they "fixed" poptarting by making jumpjets on the mechs in question completely useless. Instead, they should just have increased random firing angle while you are in the air. But hey, PGI was never big on making well thought out gameplay changes.

[Joseph Mallan]

Alistair Winter, on 29 June 2015 - 03:38 PM, said:

Let's assume that the IIC mechs have insignificant quirks. 5% here, 5% there, nothing major.

How do you think each of them compares with the Inner Sphere original mechs? Not the hero mechs, not the Oxide, not the Grid Iron. The normal variants.

• HBK IIC vs HBK-4G
  
• JR7 IIC vs JR7-7F
  
• ON1 IIC vs ON1-K (is that the best one? I've no idea)
  
• HGN IIC vs HGN-732B (or whichever you think is the best one)

Do you think the Inner Sphere mechs with quirks have enough to beat the Clan versions without any significant quirks?


https://mwomercs.com/origins

I would hope it can only be done by a really good pilot. Cause 2 AC20 should shatter a IS Hunchback 1 on 1 for instance.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 June 2015 - 02:20 AM, said:

I would hope it can only be done by a really good pilot. Cause 2 AC20 should shatter a IS Hunchback 1 on 1 for instance.

It might be close. Hunch with Dual Ultra 20s will have a burst fire mechanic and limited ammo. The IS Hunch has 1 FLD A/C20, more ammo, a quirked RoF, and STD engine for durability.

If the IS Hunch stays moving, it might come out a head actually. It depends if the IIC can destroy the IS Hunchback "hump" early in the engagement. Honestly, this one seems like it could be an interesting matchup.

As for the Jenner's, the IIC should ROFL stomp the IS Jenner. Clan SRMs don't nearly have the drawbacks that clan ballistics do. The Clan SRMs have about the same range as a IS Jenner's lasers (lasers have a slight edge in max range I think). Still, a IIC Jenner should be able to splat the crap out of the IS model with missiles.

[Alistair Winter]

Not only does the IS Hunchie do 20 damage with a single shell, and not only does it have a super-quirked rate of fire, but it's also fairly heat efficient. The Hunchie IIC is going to have a great initial burst of damage, but then it's probably going to have lower DPS due to being less heat efficient.

It'll be interesting to see though. I wonder if the new Clan battlemechs will make PGI swing the nerf bat on Clan weapons again. Not that I think it would be a good idea.

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 29 June 2015 - 03:39 PM, said:

The superquirked Hunchmobile will put up a fight, the rest are ggclosed.

Yes, the Hunchback, Metaoverlords of MWO.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Alistair Winter, on 30 June 2015 - 04:38 AM, said:

Not only does the IS Hunchie do 20 damage with a single shell, and not only does it have a super-quirked rate of fire, but it's also fairly heat efficient. The Hunchie IIC is going to have a great initial burst of damage, but then it's probably going to have lower DPS due to being less heat efficient.

It'll be interesting to see though. I wonder if the new Clan battlemechs will make PGI swing the nerf bat on Clan weapons again. Not that I think it would be a good idea.

Due to the IIC's heat and limited ammo, I'm thinking most players won't run the dual Ultra 20s anyway. I'm thinking either 2 things will happen...

1: Fire support with quad or tripple Ultra 5s or Ultra 2s.

2: Brawl setups with either dual Ultra or LBX 10s

It will be interesting to see how it plays out. I'm thinking the Ultra 5 setup or Ultra 2 might be fun.

P.S. with those 2 massive humps, I'm wondering if this might not be the first mech where you could skimp on CT armor. Torso twist at all, and the side torsos are taking all the fire. Those torsos might be another argument for quad fire support.

[Wildstreak]

Yeonne Greene, on 29 June 2015 - 07:15 PM, said:

HGN-IIC will be closer than appearances suggest if they fix Class I Jump-Jets; the IS HGN will be able to pop-tart again and a dual-Gauss advantage isn't enough to win that exchange every time. It'll be somewhat like the HBK-4G vs. the HBK-IIC, only a little more lopsided to the IIC since it can also stuff ERPPCs in there. Pop-tarting is very much a function of player skill.

Jump Jet fix is supposed to be better thrust but less fuel. Result is intended to be faster movement but prevent height thus giving mobility without bringing back poptarting.
If you want Pop-Tarts, you're gonna have to go the PathMark.

[FupDup]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 June 2015 - 04:39 AM, said:

Yes, the Hunchback, Metaoverlords of MWO.

Well, Hunchies are in a better place (because of their turboquirks up the wazoo) relative to other mediums than the Jenny, Onion, and Lowlander are compared to other lights, heavies, and assaults. The IS Hunchies at least have something to cling to compared to the IIC version, the others really don't.

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 30 June 2015 - 09:40 AM, said:

Well, Hunchies are in a better place (because of their turboquirks up the wazoo) relative to other mediums than the Jenny, Onion, and Lowlander are compared to other lights, heavies, and assaults. The IS Hunchies at least have something to cling to compared to the IIC version, the others really don't.

simply laughing at the "superquirk" label, as opposed to WVR-6K, DRG-1N, etc they still seem to be modestly represented. Thus whilst on the high side of viable, I would say if anything, at least in this current quirk/meta, they are simply one of the few examples of well thought out quirks, for the most part.

Mind you, I feel quirks in general need to be reined in, in which case the HBKs may also need to be revised. But atm? Superquirked? I would dispute that.

[Hit the Deck]

Wildstreak, on 30 June 2015 - 09:39 AM, said:

Jump Jet fix is supposed to be better thrust but less fuel. Result is intended to be faster movement but prevent height thus giving mobility without bringing back poptarting.
If you want Pop-Tarts, you're gonna have to go the PathMark.

Uh, they should not reduce the fuel reserve but just make the thrust greater. I know that Russ mentioned it but I lost the specific. Could you please point it to me?

[FupDup]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 June 2015 - 09:46 AM, said:

simply laughing at the "superquirk" label, as opposed to WVR-6K, DRG-1N, etc they still seem to be modestly represented. Thus whilst on the high side of viable, I would say if anything, at least in this current quirk/meta, they are simply one of the few examples of well thought out quirks, for the most part.

Mind you, I feel quirks in general need to be reined in, in which case the HBKs may also need to be revised. But atm? Superquirked? I would dispute that.

Well, a lot of people complain about the Grid Iron...didn't you as well at one point?

The 4J has seen similar accusations by various forumites from time to time...

Do note that when I say "superquirked" I don't mean "overpowered," I just mean that the values are kinda large and the PowerLevel difference between a quirked Hunchie and unquirked Hunchie is pretty big.

[Revis Volek]

This is all based on our CURRENT quirks and balance....


Which is going to change, so this thread is actually pointless. This will be changing before the IIC's even come out from what Russ has said/wrote.

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 30 June 2015 - 09:50 AM, said:

Well, a lot of people complain about the Grid Iron...didn't you as well at one point?

The 4J has seen similar accusations by various forumites from time to time...

Do note that when I say "superquirked" I don't mean "overpowered," I just mean that the values are kinda large and the PowerLevel difference between a quirked Hunchie and unquirked Hunchie is pretty big.

The Grid Iron is, actually the sole member of the family that arguably (and I fall to the "yes" camp) fit the descriptor. The reason I have always found the whines about the 4J superfluous is that quite simply we are talking about LRMs, and a mere 2x 10 racks. The sheer inefficiency of the weapon requires excessive help to actually BE effective.

Whilst a Gauss Rifle receiving a 67% cooldown, well, speaks for itself, even if one chooses to ignore it ac10/20s almost as well, in actual practice, as the 4G/4H regardless of Ulti's fetish for the velocity boost, which I would wager 90% of the playerbase doesn't notice or take any noted advantage of.

[Wildstreak]

Hit the Deck, on 30 June 2015 - 09:50 AM, said:

Uh, they should not reduce the fuel reserve but just make the thrust greater. I know that Russ mentioned it but I lost the specific. Could you please point it to me?

See notes here.

Quoted part.

Quote

#LegoPirates - There have been numerous complaints about jumpjets and in particular class 1 jumpjets are there any plans to revisit and revise jumpjets since its still not beneficial to take more than 1 jumpjets.

* A change is coming in July 7th for Class 1 Jumpjets. Bigger initial boost, more thrust but less available fuel. Going go a little higher and get there faster

I mentioned it here and you responded.

Aim is more mobility but no poptarting.
We'll see.

[Hit the Deck]

Wildstreak, on 30 June 2015 - 11:19 AM, said:

See notes here.

Quoted part.
....

I mentioned it here and you responded.

Aim is more mobility but no poptarting.
We'll see.

Ah,yes, thanks! I do remember that I replied someone's post about this but didn't know that it was yours!

[Y E O N N E]

Wildstreak, on 30 June 2015 - 09:39 AM, said:

Jump Jet fix is supposed to be better thrust but less fuel. Result is intended to be faster movement but prevent height thus giving mobility without bringing back poptarting.
If you want Pop-Tarts, you're gonna have to go the PathMark.

That depends on if the trade-off between thrust and fuel is inversely proportional without a scalar applied afterward. They could double the thrust but only reduce fuel by one quarter, after all.

But we'll see. I did notice that you can stick an AC/20 in the HGN-733C's arm. Is that new? I thought one of the HGN's biggest drawbacks was an inability to mount an AC/20 like the Atlas, and that seems to not be the case anymore.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 30 June 2015 - 03:31 PM.

[Hit the Deck]

Yeonne Greene, on 30 June 2015 - 03:30 PM, said:

....
But we'll see. I did notice that you can stick an AC/20 in the HGN-733C's arm. Is that new? I thought one of the HGN's biggest drawbacks was an inability to mount an AC/20 like the Atlas, and that seems to not be the case anymore.

It's not new. You can play 733C as a jumping Atlas like the Victor.

[Mcgral18]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 June 2015 - 09:46 AM, said:

simply laughing at the "superquirk" label, as opposed to WVR-6K, DRG-1N, etc they still seem to be modestly represented. Thus whilst on the high side of viable, I would say if anything, at least in this current quirk/meta, they are simply one of the few examples of well thought out quirks, for the most part.

Mind you, I feel quirks in general need to be reined in, in which case the HBKs may also need to be revised. But atm? Superquirked? I would dispute that.

Well, 3x RoF does fit the Superquirk; the 4J and 4SP.


The IIC can compared to the 4J with an LRM60+A (and 1k ammo+TAG) but does it slower and with more heat. More durable, probably. Can lose a hunch and still have 50% firepower.

4SP will out-SRM the IIC missile boat, with 6 equivalent SRM6s to only 4, with more lasers (25 damage VS 16). Alpha is another thing, where the IIC wins handily due to twice the upfront SRMs.


4G is under the superquirk, at only 42%. Not even double, but still notable. A contender against 2 cAC20s, but UAC20s have RNGeesus to contend with for superiority, or 5 seconds of nothing (of which 2-3 4G AC20s can be fired).


4P and 4H are both sad in the superquirk department. Grid Iron has the 3x recycle, but only 2x RoF due to charge. Less durable, but faster and can effectively bring lasers with enough ammo.

[El Bandito]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 June 2015 - 09:46 AM, said:

simply laughing at the "superquirk" label, as opposed to WVR-6K, DRG-1N, etc they still seem to be modestly represented. Thus whilst on the high side of viable, I would say if anything, at least in this current quirk/meta, they are simply one of the few examples of well thought out quirks, for the most part.

Mind you, I feel quirks in general need to be reined in, in which case the HBKs may also need to be revised. But atm? Superquirked? I would dispute that.

HBK-4J is definitely super-quirked. None should dispute that. It's LRM quirks allows the mech to put out Heavy class suppressive fire with enough ammo to last the match, while retaining its Medium class mobility. As easy-mode mech as I have ever played.

Grid Iron is also a super-quirked Gauss monster, but not as easy mode as above.

4SP is also super-quirked, but it has to get close to do the work.


On top of heavy offensive quirks, the Swaybacks such as Grid Iron and the 4G had received up to 30 more HP (armor+internals) quirk on their hunch--thus nullifying their weak point. Now it is better to try to leg them than try to shoot off their big hunch should you meet one 1v1.

Edited by El Bandito, 30 June 2015 - 04:13 PM.

[Night Thastus]

The only real disadvantage of the clan 'Mechs right now is the fixed equipment. (Engine, heatsinks, endo, ferro, non-dynamic slots for endo and ferro, etc)

IIC 'Mechs have no fixed equipment, but all of the joys of Clan Mechs. (Lighter weaponry, 7 slot endo and ferro, clan XL's)

This kinda makes them OP as f*ck.