137 replies to this topic

[Wronka]

Mcgral18, on 30 June 2015 - 11:26 AM, said:

It can do a STD engine.

Comes stock with one; using that: Dual Gauss, 60 rounds, 2 MPLs

Strip the left side and add a LPL on the same side as the Gauss if you want. But, 2 bombs in the ST holding all your guns is a pretty risky thing.

Clans have a STD engine? Or does it just come with a stock IS STD engine? If so, wouldn't you be leaving a huge benefit out on the table by not running a clan XL? Were talking 9.5 tons on a 300 engine for the cost of only 4 critical slots and no other downside.

Edited by Wronka, 30 June 2015 - 11:40 AM.

[Kira Onime]

Wronka, on 30 June 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

Clans have a STD engine? Or does it just come with a stock IS STD engine?

Orion IIC & IIC-A comes with an STD engine.
B & C come with an XL.

[Gas Guzzler]

Wronka, on 30 June 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

Clans have a STD engine? Or does it just come with a stock IS STD engine? If so, wouldn't you be leaving a huge benefit out on the table by not running a clan XL? Were talking 9.5 tons on a 300 engine for the cost of only 4 critical slots and no other downside. The more I think about this the more it seems these mechs will not come with clan engines.

Running an XL would lose you the benefit of running dual gauss in one torso.

Think of it, the only mech with dual gauss completely unaffected by whether or not the re-institute delayed convergence..

[Mcgral18]

Wronka, on 30 June 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

Clans have a STD engine? Or does it just come with a stock IS STD engine? If so, wouldn't you be leaving a huge benefit out on the table by not running a clan XL? Were talking 9.5 tons on a 300 engine for the cost of only 4 critical slots and no other downside. The more I think about this the more it seems these mechs will not come with clan engines.

STD engines are all the same; makes no difference.




As for coming with isXL engines...impossible. The Hunch IIC-A comes with 20DHS, Endo+Ferro and a XL200.

It has no free slots, at all. That's with a cXL. If it had an isXL, impossible to fit everything because it would be 2 slots over capacity.

[Wronka]

KiraOnime, on 30 June 2015 - 11:36 AM, said:

Orion IIC & IIC-A comes with an STD engine.
B & C come with an XL.

I understand that now, thanks. I just didn't think there was such a thing as a clan STD engine, so it didn't make sense to me that they would come with an IS STD engine. Still wonder if it is worth it to run at the cost of 9.5 tons and no other upside but to run dual gauss.... maybe it is idk.

Mcgral18, on 30 June 2015 - 11:43 AM, said:

STD engines are all the same; makes no difference.




As for coming with isXL engines...impossible. The Hunch IIC-A comes with 20DHS, Endo+Ferro and a XL200.

It has no free slots, at all. That's with a cXL. If it had an isXL, impossible to fit everything because it would be 2 slots over capacity.

Yes you are right, they come with clan XL, i deleted that part of my comment since I was indeed incorrect. Thanks for the post.

[0rionsbane]

i currently run my orion protector with a guass 2 er ll and a lrm 20 with a xl 300. the thing preforms quite well allows me to suppress with lrms\guass then continue to snipe with the lasers and guass.

There is one thing i just dont understand about the meta of boating, and that is flexibility, if you are all short range and you have a long range team mate then just by focusing that team mate the enemy can have a advantage and out range the short range team mate. if you all had a lrm 5 even this would never be an issue. and your heat in short ranges would be better to boot by having one less laser. to me the primary fallacy is that heat is often sidelined in favor of burst damage, but your would need less burst damage if you did 30 points of damage before you engaged.

[Wronka]

0rionsbane, on 30 June 2015 - 11:46 AM, said:

i currently run my orion protector with a guass 2 er ll and a lrm 20 with a xl 300. the thing preforms quite well allows me to suppress with lrms\guass then continue to snipe with the lasers and guass.

There is one thing i just dont understand about the meta of boating, and that is flexibility, if you are all short range and you have a long range team mate then just by focusing that team mate the enemy can have a advantage and out range the short range team mate. if you all had a lrm 5 even this would never be an issue. and your heat in short ranges would be better to boot by having one less laser. to me the primary fallacy is that heat is often sidelined in favor of burst damage, but your would need less burst damage if you did 30 points of damage before you engaged.

The problem with LRM 5 is if anyone has AMS your weapon is 100% useless. You just burnt up at minimum 3+ tons and crits (depending on how much ammo you equipped) for a weapon that gets fully countered by a single .5 ton AMS.

[JustEvil]

Khobai, on 30 June 2015 - 01:14 AM, said:

(...) They were built at the clan factories and clan factories dont have comstar wizards that can add quirk enchantments to mechs.

Comstar Wizards made my day, lol.

[Deathlike]

Wronka, on 30 June 2015 - 11:51 AM, said:

The problem with LRM 5 is if anyone has AMS your weapon is 100% useless. You just burnt up at minimum 3+ tons and crits (depending on how much ammo you equipped) for a weapon that gets fully countered by a single .5 ton AMS.

Grasshopper said:

Say whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?

Seriously though, the IIC variants will generally be better than the IS versions with like one exception (a JJ Hunchback-IIC has potential despite the quirked IS Hunchy).

The question is if that's going to be gamebreaking. It may not necessarily be.

However, IS Omnimechs with SHS are very much likely DOA.

[Wintersdark]

Deathlike, on 30 June 2015 - 12:11 PM, said:

Seriously though, the IIC variants will generally be better than the IS versions with like one exception (a JJ Hunchback-IIC has potential despite the quirked IS Hunchy).

The question is if that's going to be gamebreaking. It may not necessarily be.

However, IS Omnimechs with SHS are very much likely DOA.

I do think it's a reasonable assumption that they'd allow IS Omni's to upgrade to DHS, what with SHS being what they are. Paul's SHS K2 notwithstanding I'm sure they understand how SHS are actually unusable in the game.

[Scout Derek]

KiraOnime, on 29 June 2015 - 04:32 PM, said:

Convince me otherwise if you disagree.

Hate to disagree, but they aren't. They're going to be like IS mech customization, only with clan tech. What I like about this pack is the prices; I'm in joy of not having to spend $120USD for mechs that have locked engines and upgrades, and locked jump jets.

Wintersdark, on 30 June 2015 - 12:34 PM, said:

I do think it's a reasonable assumption that they'd allow IS Omni's to upgrade to DHS, what with SHS being what they are. Paul's SHS K2 notwithstanding I'm sure they understand how SHS are actually unusable in the game.

That's one upgrade that'll be exclusive to them, as IS DHS take up 3 Crits compared to clans DHS of 2 crits.

[Roadkill]

Wronka, on 30 June 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

Clans have a STD engine?

Engines are, for most purposes, the same for Clans and IS. The only difference that I know of is that the Clan XL uses fewer crits than the IS XL, which is what allows you to live through a side torso destruction in a Mech using a Clan XL. Weight is the same, though.

Most Clan Mechs use XL engines, but there are a few (even Omnimechs) that use standard engines. So yes, the full suite of standard engines should be available to Clans should you want to use them in your Clan Battlemech customizations.

[Lugh]

KiraOnime, on 29 June 2015 - 04:38 PM, said:

The problem isn't the free tonnage, that part is great, the problem is the ****** hard points they both have.
All over the place and no variant truly focuses 1 type of weapon.

Yes because you can't put three clan pulse large pulse lasers in that shoulder can you?!? some people...

Edited by Lugh, 30 June 2015 - 01:03 PM.

[Scout Derek]

One thing however I will hate will be the forums we always get as soon as they release, such as this one I thought up of is the hunchie IIC:

"Why the hell does it have only weapons in torsos? Every time I peak I get sheared of all my good weapons, and when I run a XL both sides die!!! Pls fix pgi, give us the early adopter variant to those that bought hunchie 2C!"

For the highlander:

"Pgi fix the highlander 2C, it's just a highlands with clan tech."

And the same would be said about the Orion.....

And the nerfing cries about the jenner....

You complainers stay away from my orgin clan mechs!!!!! D:<

Lugh, on 30 June 2015 - 12:56 PM, said:

Yes because you can't put three clan pulse large pulse lasers in that shoulder can you?!? Idiot.

Think about it, maybe he wants a side to shield with and shoot...

Isn't that what a centurion does, hell, even a regular hunchie does?

[Kristov Kerensky]

Every single one of the IIC Mechs, using the stats PGI has listed currently, are anything but DoA, but hey, that's been said about every single new Mech added to the game to date, why would it stop now when it's got a stunning streak of being wrong going, right?

kesmai, on 30 June 2015 - 12:37 AM, said:

I'm exited how they will explain the absence of quirks on the 2c mechs. As they are just an evolved version of inner sphere tech they should logically inherit the quirks of their is counterparts.

No, they shouldn't inherit those quirks as these aren't Inner Sphere Mechs with Clan Tech on them, they are redesigned from the ground up using Clan Tech throughout and based on the Clan way of combat.


Khobai, the Jenner did indeed exist when Aleksandr took the SLDF on the Exodus, and they took Jenners with them, it entered production in September 2784, and the Exodus started in November. They also took the only existing Atlas II's in the Inner Sphere, a SLDF Royal Regiments only Mech, as all of the Royal Regiments went with Aleksandr. The Atlas II wasn't seen again in the Inner Sphere until 3077 when the Word of Blake took the Hesperus II factories and started making it again, using Mixed Tech. Aleksandr used an Atlas II once in the Periphery Uprisings and it was the favorite Mech of Nickolas, who has his refitted with Clan Tech once they got it. He did not use an Atlas IIC as there is no such Mech, it was a Mixed Tech Atlas II.

Just a little BTech history lesson for you Khobai, as you do seem interested it in, I hope you enjoy.

[Revis Volek]

KiraOnime, on 30 June 2015 - 08:50 AM, said:

DoA was probably too harsh of a statement to open with.
Will they be unplayable? No of course not. They'll be playable, just like every other mech.
Comps mechs? Most probably not unless they have something really good going for them. *1 or 2 variants excluded*.
These mechs simply don't fit the type of mechs I like. I prefer mechs going all out on 1 type of weapon instead of trying to be a jack of all trades.

Yea i agree DOA, more then likely not....

Tier One.....lol hell no (maybe the Jr7 IIC)

But, i think this is nice. We have the ability to make all the mechs we currently have (Via Omni pods) whatever we want so i am ok with being "stuck" so to speak with a few lemons that will have to be played as support mechs more then likely.

It brings some diversity if nothing else and will keep them feeling like old IS mechs IMO.

[Bleary]

The forum is terrible at predicting tiers. Just . . .terrible. All we can say for certain is that the buzz -positive or negative- will be completely wrong about at least one of these 'Mechs.

[Scout Derek]

Bleary, on 30 June 2015 - 01:49 PM, said:

The forum is terrible at predicting tiers. Just . . .terrible. All we can say for certain is that the buzz -positive or negative- will be completely wrong about at least one of these 'Mechs.

Lol I can say they'll be better than usual clan mechs in that they will be more customized, but who needs omnipods when you get hardpoint inflation on a jenner :-p

[Deathlike]

Wintersdark, on 30 June 2015 - 12:34 PM, said:

I do think it's a reasonable assumption that they'd allow IS Omni's to upgrade to DHS, what with SHS being what they are. Paul's SHS K2 notwithstanding I'm sure they understand how SHS are actually unusable in the game.

Well, I would assume so too (SHS is bad, and people who vouch for that should feel bad), but then again it was used for justification for describing coolant when it was added to the game.

We're just lucky no Champion mech has SHS (assuming, we leave PGI to their own devices, it could be categorically laughable if they even thought of that for a moment, but we've seen lots of bad mech designs...).

[Wintersdark]

Bleary, on 30 June 2015 - 01:49 PM, said:

The forum is terrible at predicting tiers. Just . . .terrible. All we can say for certain is that the buzz -positive or negative- will be completely wrong about at least one of these 'Mechs.

Because there are so very many people who don't really understand the game. Even at high levels of play - skill in the game is not at all related to understanding how the game works, and how the meta develops.

Most players just don't understand, and that's fine. They'll use builds that other people post, strategies that others design, and they'll measure new things by those yardsticks, not really understanding what factors contribute to making a build good, or strategy successful. This isn't an insult, it's not a failing of those people. It's a particular skillset and means of thinking, that's all.

It does suck, though, because the vast amount of noise in forums from people who don't really understand wtf they're talking about can be frustrating... particularly when they're just parroting what someone else told them, without really understanding it.

Then you end up with "This new mech doesn't fit <the current meta> and as such it's bad". The problem with that is, those statements are made without really examining if the new mech is sufficiently good otherwise - perhaps in an unexplored way - that it can change the meta, at least, be a part in it's ongoing evolution.