304 replies to this topic

[Brizna]

Commando pilots lets gather here and cry about this piece of enginery that used to be a beautiful little mech very fun to play.

Commando never was a competitive mech but it was good enough to play in pugland while contributing more often than not and together with locust it was one of the most challenging and rewarding mechs to play, alas then quirks came.

From that moment two mechs that used to be very similar have walked completely different paths, while some locust have been elevated almost to meta level all commandos received very underwhelming quirks, the justification apparently being that commando "tanks" better, while it's true that they can get more hits and distribute damage better that advantage palishes when you consider that:
1) Using the word tanking is total overstatement, commando is harder than locust sure but is one hit almost as easily against high PPFLD damage (gauss, PPC, AC20s...)
2) Even if it still is more durable than locust that is hardly important when you consider a lolcust will destroy any mech in TWO good volleys while rear coring, meanwhile a Commando will need like 4 volleys in longer CD and longer burn weapons.

TLDR: All commandos suck, only TDK is worth a dime and still it is very underwhelming. The only reason no one complains any more is because almost every commando pilot has moved to locusts and no one cares about commando any more.
Next week commando gets mechlab revamp what a waste of resources PGI, what commando needs is doubling its quirks.

[TercieI]

Dang. Now I need to take a Commando out tonight!

[Shadey99]

I actually have run out of other lights to master besides the Commando (& Urbie, but I don't have the RL cash for the Urbie right now) and I've fund them ok. Roughly on par with the Spider, though less 'tanky' with a stronger punch than most Spiders have.

[3xnihilo]

Commandos died in the quirkening. They can't output damage as well as a locust and they lack the jump jets that make spiders "good?" Plus you have to sacrifice speed (the main selling point on the fastest mech in the game) to fit anything resembling a decent amount of firepower. If we could get something like 100% increase in srm ammo per ton and 30-50% tighter srm dispersion, they could be the underwhelmingly awesome little monsters they once were.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

There is still hope, if the geometry update is accompanied by a thorough re-quirking. The 2D's engine cap also needs to be raised, since as it stands it has the lowest top speed of any IS ECM light, which makes it a fairly unattractive option compared to the much faster Pirate's Bane, and the slightly faster and much better armored SDR-5D and RVN-3L.

[TercieI]

PS WrathOfDeadguy, on 01 July 2015 - 04:22 PM, said:

There is still hope, if the geometry update is accompanied by a thorough re-quirking. The 2D's engine cap also needs to be raised, since as it stands it has the lowest top speed of any IS ECM light, which makes it a fairly unattractive option compared to the much faster Pirate's Bane, and the slightly faster and much better armored SDR-5D and RVN-3L.

Engine cap is barely relevant on the 2D. You can hardly make use of it at 210. With only one energy hardpoint, it's always going to struggle to have free tonnage for comparatively heavy missile weapons, especially when using 1.5 tons on ECM.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

I disagree... it absolutely would be a useful option to have. Is it always going to be starved for tonnage and difficult to build for? Yeah, it is. But nearly the same build I run on my XL210 2D would fit with a bigger engine, which would be a greater help than anything else I can think to do with it.

The number of slots required for a viable build on the 2D is IMO a bigger issue than the overall lack of tonnage... take this build, which is what's on my 2D right now. The necessity for 2 external DHS means I can't upgrade to Ferro without sacrificing either a weapon, ammo, or my ECM... but if the engine cap increases, then I can strip off one of those external heat sinks, add Ferro for another half a ton, and stick a XL225 in there for 160kph. Strip some armor from the head and now it's an XL235... and maybe take off half a ton of SRM ammo (which still leaves 25 shots per launcher, which I regard as the bare minimum), and then I've got the tonnage for XL240.

[stealthraccoon]

I guess a bigger engine would help, but I generally ran mine with the XL190 from my Locusts (fast enough for my play style I guess).

Commando's are just plain fun, and I guess they are a little more rugged than some of the Locusts, but the Locust has many more loadout options (where is my Commando 1C???)
I haven't really gotten into the TDK, just feels like a Locust 1E, and I'd rather have SRM's.

The Commando would benefit from my original argument based on a very early game mechanics decision: armor values were doubled, so ammunition counts should have been doubled as well; if all of our weapons do essentially half damage, the compensation should have been twice as many rounds in the magazines. Otherwise there is a disadvantage to using any weapons that rely on ammunition to operate (ballistics and missiles). Considering a SRM2 vs a Medium Laser

The SRM2 does 5 damage if both missiles hit, with 50 shots per ton (making at least 2 tons of weight), unquirked range is limited to 270m and the velocity and spread can make aimed fire iffy.
The 1 ton medium laser does 5 damage and has unlimited ammo, there is no trajectory or velocity issues and it has a max range far beyond SRM's...
I'd love to compare it to a similar ballistic, but there is a giant hole between the .5 ton machinegun and the 6 ton AC2.

...basically why wouldn't you rely on lasers? (oh yeah, and DHS are more effective in this game too, so heat hasn't been a good balance mechanism).

Edited by stealthraccoon, 01 July 2015 - 09:39 PM.

[TercieI]

PS WrathOfDeadguy, on 01 July 2015 - 08:21 PM, said:

I disagree... it absolutely would be a useful option to have. Is it always going to be starved for tonnage and difficult to build for? Yeah, it is. But nearly the same build I run on my XL210 2D would fit with a bigger engine, which would be a greater help than anything else I can think to do with it.

The number of slots required for a viable build on the 2D is IMO a bigger issue than the overall lack of tonnage... take this build, which is what's on my 2D right now. The necessity for 2 external DHS means I can't upgrade to Ferro without sacrificing either a weapon, ammo, or my ECM... but if the engine cap increases, then I can strip off one of those external heat sinks, add Ferro for another half a ton, and stick a XL225 in there for 160kph. Strip some armor from the head and now it's an XL235... and maybe take off half a ton of SRM ammo (which still leaves 25 shots per launcher, which I regard as the bare minimum), and then I've got the tonnage for XL240.

Yep, that's a good point. The 225 is only a net .5ton heavier than the 210 and it grants you a TrueDub and allows FF, so it actually nets out to lighter. At a full ton more than that, I think the 240 will be the wrong choice, but the 225 certainly would help. I have usually run it in the vicinity of an XL195 personally, but I don't run it at all since IS streaks are such garbage and there are better SRM options. But now I'm going to have to mess with it a bit. Stupid thread...

EDIT: looking at your current build, I'd consider dropping to an XL200 for a whole ton savings vs. the XL210. You can take more ammo or upgrade the ML to an MPL, which both adds damage and pairs more naturally with the SRM-dictated striking style because of shorter beam. Personally, I'd try this since I don't like the facetime required for accomplishing anything with 2s.

Edited by Terciel1976, 02 July 2015 - 06:04 AM.

[Shadey99]

Terciel1976, on 02 July 2015 - 05:57 AM, said:

Yep, that's a good point. The 225 is only a net .5ton heavier than the 210 and it grants you a TrueDub and allows FF, so it actually nets out to lighter. At a full ton more than that, I think the 240 will be the wrong choice, but the 225 certainly would help. I have usually run it in the vicinity of an XL195 personally, but I don't run it at all since IS streaks are such garbage and there are better SRM options. But now I'm going to have to mess with it a bit. Stupid thread...

While I used my XL 190 Locust engines initially... Most of mine now run 225s which gives them speed equal to Firestarters and just slightly outrun Panthers. After 225 you tend to trade firepower for speed and that's fine for the ML Death's Knell that doesn't need much space for weapons, but running missiles requires a serious investment in tonnage so a trade off has to be done.

That said I do 300-400 damage most games with my not even basiced Commandos... Which is a bit less than I do in say my Blackjacks or Hunchies (that I'm also leveling atm) or my Adders which I finished just a bit ago... But still good numbers.

[BigBadVlad]

Last I was using my 2D was months ago... and found I could be most helpful with a single ERPPC, ECM, and I think I got BAP on it too for the Advanced Sensor Range boost. Used Advanced Sensor Range and Target Decay Modules for spotting for LRMs on my team from far away. The ERPPC let me make assaults turn and look around to find where the heck is that coming from hehe?!?!? The ERPPC was also useful for taking out the other teams ECM but when Hellbringer came out there was just too much ECM to be able to do this any more. Switched to sticking with some others and providing ECM to my teammates as best as I could and shooting from the backfield.

Not overly effective and haven't used any Mandos because, yeah Pirate's Bane... much more fun with 4 mediums and speed

[InspectorG]

3xnihilo, on 01 July 2015 - 03:26 PM, said:

Commandos died in the quirkening. They can't output damage as well as a locust and they lack the jump jets that make spiders "good?" Plus you have to sacrifice speed (the main selling point on the fastest mech in the game) to fit anything resembling a decent amount of firepower. If we could get something like 100% increase in srm ammo per ton and 30-50% tighter srm dispersion, they could be the underwhelmingly awesome little monsters they once were.

Quirk them similar to the Spider V.

Commandos cant hold enough ammo for srms. Need heat efficientcy/cooldown for Energy because hardpoint restriction.

PGI should just use the same formula: one gets ERLL quirks, another Wubs, Another ML, last gets SRM.

Streak SRM range 100% cooldown 100% would be funny. Trollmando lives!!!!

Needs more Accel, reverse Accel as well.

[3xnihilo]

InspectorG, on 02 July 2015 - 07:49 AM, said:

Quirk them similar to the Spider V.

Commandos cant hold enough ammo for srms. Need heat efficientcy/cooldown for Energy because hardpoint restriction.

PGI should just use the same formula: one gets ERLL quirks, another Wubs, Another ML, last gets SRM.

Streak SRM range 100% cooldown 100% would be funny. Trollmando lives!!!!

Needs more Accel, reverse Accel as well.

The 2D with super streak quirks would be awesome! I still think they could fudge the ammo quantity per ton for commandos though and the locust 3s while they are at it, but mostly for he 3a and 1d so you can carry srms and run fast.

[Chadamir Fitzkrieg]

Well, I still average 500+ damage with 2-3 kills in my 1B and 350+ damage in my 1D. More quirks would be lovely and the removal of the minimum number of heatsinks would honestly make the Commando more viable with SRMs, as the poor 2D at best has to commit 2 more tons to heatsinks it simply does not need.

[ShinVector]

Actually the Commando had some very nice MPLS quirks.. That some how was deemed OP and was NERFED !!

The TDK is nice for the Cbill bonus...

But honestly I have the most fun in the game bullying bad assault pilots... hehehehe..

[B L O O D W I T C H]

first shock, Leg damage for 171 kph non jump jet light mech.
second shock, left out of quirkening.
they are still fun to play with, but nowhere as useful as the used to be.

[stealthraccoon]

Didn't someone mentions a visual update for the Commando next patch? Any reference for that? Seems about time the little guy gets some love.

[Darwins Dog]

In the last town hall Russ said that everything but the stalker will have it's geometry update. I hope that means more tubes for the 1B, although the volley fire with an SRM6 makes it more accurate.

[Koniving]

Brizna, on 01 July 2015 - 02:30 PM, said:

Commando whirs around a dark corner.

(Just kinda noticed it's whining not whirring; still, feed all the memes!) >.>

[Brizna]

Koniving, on 02 July 2015 - 10:37 AM, said:

(Just kinda noticed it's whining not whirring; still, feed all the memes!) >.>

Commando whirs around dark corners just fine, it's the shoting after that that is undewhleming

Edited by Brizna, 02 July 2015 - 12:32 PM.