246 replies to this topic

[DAYLEET]

I understand that if you own 8.1 you might want the 10 but if you are on 7 your best bet is to wait for games to actually use dx12 and then wait some more to see how it develops.

BTW w10 is free even for people who have pirated version of 7 and 8.1. At least it was, maybe the option has been removed now that w10 is officially out.

The beta was buggy on my old X4 940BE who runs 7 perfectly.

[Russ Bullock]

KraftySOT, on 30 July 2015 - 09:14 AM, said:

Yeah and PGI simply doesnt have the staff familiar with it, or the capital to hire a good one.

Probably the best example in a while that shows why I don't spend more time on the forums. Wild assumptions.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Imperius, on 30 July 2015 - 02:11 PM, said:

Where did he state this? Or are you just adding it to a past statement from like 1.5yrs ago? Cause I've been tweeting him about it he hasn't said jack.

The statement back then was since DX 11 wasn't much of a gain they were not going to support DX 11 updates we are now at DX 12 which offers too much performance boosts to ignore.

One of the recent Town Halls, not the last one but I think the one before that, someone brought it up and he actually discussed it a bit. CryTek has the DX12 update for the engine, PGI has looked at it, but CryTek actually killed all DX9 functionality in the engine with their DX12 update, for reasons no one can figure out, since it's not being done by OTHER devs upgrading their stuff to DX12. Russ said that due to the playerbase being predominately DX9 users, PGI wouldn't be updating to DX12. He did comment that it wasn't right that the game is being held back due to this, but for now, no DX12 in MWO's future. He did mention that it was something they may go ahead and do at some point in the future, because the game being held back by low end users isn't right, so we MAY get DX12 sometime...

Hell, look at Blizzard and how they were so slow to really upgrade WoW's graphics due to how many of their playerbase were using old systems, it's not something ANY online game company wants to do, upgrade so much that they lose paying customers. It'll still run on a system from 2006 and a system from 2010 will run it with all the eye candy maxed out.

[Russ Bullock]

Kristov Kerensky, on 30 July 2015 - 08:52 AM, said:

As Imperius already covered that, I'll just add that Russ already stated, MWO will not be upgraded for DX12 any time soon. The CryEngine 3 that MWO is running on HAS a DX12 update already put out by CryTek, there is ONE teeny tiny problem with that update however. It totally kills all DX9 functionality in the engine. That's a CryTek thing, NOT a DX12 thing, they did that with how they did their DX12 update.

Yes this is true - we would need to abandon DX9 as well as take a fairly comprehensive amount of work on updating our art work in a way that I cannot explain well.

So a time commitment and doing away with DX9 - so it becomes a timing thing, obviously it's going to happen, time and technology waits for no one but when becomes the question. Should we really focus on this now?

[Imperius]

Russ Bullock, on 30 July 2015 - 02:36 PM, said:

Yes this is true - we would need to abandon DX9 as well as take a fairly comprehensive amount of work on updating our art work in a way that I cannot explain well.

So a time commitment and doing away with DX9 - so it becomes a timing thing, obviously it's going to happen, time and technology waits for no one but when becomes the question. Should we really focus on this now?

YES and here is WHY








Yes or No option you can add why/why not below if you see fit to do so.

Vote HERE

These two images just by adding DX 12 support show how much they can improve our well known CPU bottleneck issues that we currently have with MWO.

This is how DX 11 works

Spoiler

This is how DX 12 works compared notice the load is shared between the CPU

Spoiler

From THIS article
Adding feature levels and implementing them as part of DX12 means that millions of people will see significant benefits from adopting the new API in the here and now. No, older GPUs may not support every single DX12 feature, but no one is going to end up having to choose between a game that looks great in DX11 or a half-assed DX12 version due to graphics card implementation issues. When AMD, Nvidia, and Intel talk about supporting DirectX 12 on older hardware, they’re talking about the features that matter most — lower-overhead APIs, better CPU utilization, and multi-GPU functionality. The actual feature levels that define 12_1 as being different from 11_0 are interesting and useful in certain scenarios, but they aren’t the capabilities that will truly shape how gamers experience gaming with the API.

Edited by Imperius, 30 July 2015 - 02:42 PM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Russ Bullock, on 30 July 2015 - 02:36 PM, said:

Yes this is true - we would need to abandon DX9 as well as take a fairly comprehensive amount of work on updating our art work in a way that I cannot explain well.

So a time commitment and doing away with DX9 - so it becomes a timing thing, obviously it's going to happen, time and technology waits for no one but when becomes the question. Should we really focus on this now?

I WANT to say YES! I really do, but reality is..no, you shouldn't, you already know that too, sneaky basitche, making me say it...no, don't focus on 12 at the moment, too many other things on your plate that really need to be addressed first.

But the fact that you are considering it and it will happen, that's a damn good thing to know Russ, thank you.

BTW, any word on the Unseen yet? Those images from HBS are just making my wallet tremble...

[Wing 0]

Russ Bullock, on 30 July 2015 - 02:36 PM, said:

Yes this is true - we would need to abandon DX9 as well as take a fairly comprehensive amount of work on updating our art work in a way that I cannot explain well.

So a time commitment and doing away with DX9 - so it becomes a timing thing, obviously it's going to happen, time and technology waits for no one but when becomes the question. Should we really focus on this now?

If you guys did have that option, would you guys be willing to consider it if its possible?

[TWIAFU]

Russ Bullock, on 30 July 2015 - 02:36 PM, said:

Yes this is true - we would need to abandon DX9 as well as take a fairly comprehensive amount of work on updating our art work in a way that I cannot explain well.

So a time commitment and doing away with DX9 - so it becomes a timing thing, obviously it's going to happen, time and technology waits for no one but when becomes the question. Should we really focus on this now?

No sir.

I would like it if you and PGI concentrated on CW right now and made a NPE for Steam.

I do understand why you do not post here. With that said, more communication is very desirable.

[spectralthundr]

Imperius, on 30 July 2015 - 02:40 PM, said:

YES and here is WHY








Yes or No option you can add why/why not below if you see fit to do so.

Vote HERE

These two images just by adding DX 12 support show how much they can improve our well known CPU bottleneck issues that we currently have with MWO.

This is how DX 11 works

Spoiler

This is how DX 12 works compared notice the load is shared between the CPU

Spoiler

From THIS article
Adding feature levels and implementing them as part of DX12 means that millions of people will see significant benefits from adopting the new API in the here and now. No, older GPUs may not support every single DX12 feature, but no one is going to end up having to choose between a game that looks great in DX11 or a half-assed DX12 version due to graphics card implementation issues. When AMD, Nvidia, and Intel talk about supporting DirectX 12 on older hardware, they’re talking about the features that matter most — lower-overhead APIs, better CPU utilization, and multi-GPU functionality. The actual feature levels that define 12_1 as being different from 11_0 are interesting and useful in certain scenarios, but they aren’t the capabilities that will truly shape how gamers experience gaming with the API.

Thinking tech demos represent actual gameplay.. /facepalm

Most people and likely the majority who play MWO don't even have DX 11 parts or pc's capable of running the game in DX11, it wouldn't make any business sense right now for PGI to put the effort in for art assets let alone many other factors to get the game up and running on DX12. Later down the road? Sure. But right out of the gate it really isn't a good idea.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Russ Bullock, on 30 July 2015 - 02:34 PM, said:

Probably the best example in a while that shows why I don't spend more time on the forums. Wild assumptions.

It just means that we need you here more often to disprove them.

We're not all like that
No, we don't all agree on everything, but I hope a handful of people doesn't ruin it for everyone. Just ignore the ones that are spiteful.

It's really great to see you posting.

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 30 July 2015 - 03:21 PM.

[Imperius]

spectralthundr, on 30 July 2015 - 03:01 PM, said:

Thinking tech demos represent actual gameplay.. /facepalm Most people and likely the majority who play MWO don't even have DX 11 parts or pc's capable of running the game in DX11, it wouldn't make any business sense right now for PGI to put the effort in for art assets let alone many other factors to get the game up and running on DX12. Later down the road? Sure. But right out of the gate it really isn't a good idea.

They are not all tech demos, one is Draw Calls which shows how many more calls can be made because of 12, the second is a tech demo that I showed for potential, the 3rd is a video of an educated man explaining the benefits of DX 12 compared to 11.

As for DX 11 cards or PC's if you don't have even the low end of that why are you trying to play a Cryengine game?
http://solidlystated...11-video-cards/

[DAYLEET]

Russ Bullock, on 30 July 2015 - 02:34 PM, said:

Probably the best example in a while that shows why I don't spend more time on the forums. Wild assumptions.

Don't be afraid to drop in and just slap us around when we are wrong, it's the only way, i write tons of assumpsion about pgi too, maybe with the hope that someone comes and show me wrong.

Russ Bullock, on 30 July 2015 - 02:36 PM, said:

So a time commitment and doing away with DX9 - so it becomes a timing thing, obviously it's going to happen, time and technology waits for no one but when becomes the question. Should we really focus on this now?

No, my HW support dx12(r9 280x i860 i run everything maxed but AA and postP), but i don't want Win10. Theres ugrading graphics and theres abandoning everyone who cant do above dx9, what are the numbers?


Sorry everyone who thinks the graphics woudl magicaly improve with dx12 but im pretty sure theres a good chuink of people who have invested money in mwo that don't want to be told to fkoff.


Isnt the comunity manager supposed to tell you about those questions we have and come back to us with a short answer like "no we wont consider dx12 for quite some times"?

Edited by DAYLEET, 30 July 2015 - 03:42 PM.

[Monkey Lover]

Screw graphics Russ fix cw and Balance IS/clan. My units members are not quiting because the game isn't pretty.

[Domenoth]

spectralthundr, on 30 July 2015 - 03:01 PM, said:

Most people and likely the majority who play MWO don't even have DX 11 parts or pc's capable of running the game in DX11, it wouldn't make any business sense right now for PGI to put the effort in for art assets let alone many other factors to get the game up and running on DX12. Later down the road? Sure. But right out of the gate it really isn't a good idea.

What are you basing this statement on? Any actual facts or figures? The Steam survey seems to suggest that DX11 has nearly double what the DX10 and below sets have.

From my time crawling the forums I've gotten the impression that most people do have DX11 but choose not to run it because it used to be worse than DX9. Now they're just even with eachother.

Also, my computer is 7 years old...and I have DX11 compatibility.

Edit:
I forgot to actually link. And thanks to Imperius for providing an even better link than the one I was going to use.

Edited by Domenoth, 30 July 2015 - 06:00 PM.

[Imperius]

Monkey Lover, on 30 July 2015 - 03:36 PM, said:

Screw graphics Russ fix cw and Balance IS/clan. My units members are not quiting because the game isn't pretty.

You do realize this has to do with performance not making it more pretty....

[Kristov Kerensky]

DAYLEET, on 30 July 2015 - 03:32 PM, said:

Don't be afraid to drop in and just slap us around when we are wrong, it's the only way, i write tons of assumpsion about pgi too, maybe with the hope that someone comes and show me wrong.





No, my HW support dx12(r9 280x i860 i run everything maxed but AA and postP), but i don't want Win10. Theres ugrading graphics and theres abandoning everyone who cant do above dx9, what are the numbers?


Sorry everyone who thinks the graphics woudl magicaly improve with dx12 but im pretty sure theres a good chuink of people who have invested money in mwo that don't want to be told to fkoff.


Isnt the comunity manager supposed to tell you about those questions we have and come back to us with a short answer like "no we wont consider dx12 for quite some times"?

If you are running a low end system, odds are you aren't spending money on MWO right now. Old argument, one that's been proven time and again over the past few decades about games needing higher hardware requirements as time goes on. WoW didn't lose tons of paying customers when they upgraded their requirements, they lost FREEMIUM players who never spent money on the game and were playing on systems that could barely run WoW before it was updated. The people who spend money on a game ALREADY have shown they'll spend money to play, so income won't be lost, you just lose the people who aren't going to drop a dime on the game anyway.

That aside, there's other issues that take priority over DX12 being added, so it can wait. It will be a bit of a time eater to upgrade all the graphics to truly take advantage of what DX12 offers, the performance increase is worth it though without all the extra goodness it offers.

[DAYLEET]

Kristov Kerensky, on 30 July 2015 - 04:06 PM, said:

If you are running a low end system, odds are you aren't spending money on MWO right now. Old argument, one that's been proven time and again over the past few decades about games needing higher hardware requirements as time goes on. WoW didn't lose tons of paying customers when they upgraded their requirements, they lost FREEMIUM players who never spent money on the game and were playing on systems that could barely run WoW before it was updated. The people who spend money on a game ALREADY have shown they'll spend money to play, so income won't be lost, you just lose the people who aren't going to drop a dime on the game anyway.

That aside, there's other issues that take priority over DX12 being added, so it can wait. It will be a bit of a time eater to upgrade all the graphics to truly take advantage of what DX12 offers, the performance increase is worth it though without all the extra goodness it offers.

lol. Max setting at dx11 except for post processing and AA. We don't need better performance, im the living proof.

[Kristov Kerensky]

DAYLEET, on 30 July 2015 - 04:09 PM, said:

lol. Max setting at dx11 except for post processing and AA. We don't need better performance, im the living proof.

I run the same, but I'd like to run the same AND get higher fps with a lower resource usage overhead, which is what DX12 gives. And the goodness that DX12 brings, which lets us add even MORE eye candy, which looks even better, while STILL getting better fps and still using less overhead? Hell yes, bring that on!

[Spr1ggan]

Windows 10 status check?

MWO is running fine for me on windows 10. It's actually running smoother with less hitching , though that is more likely due to the new Nvidia drivers.

[nitra]

Russ Bullock, on 30 July 2015 - 02:36 PM, said:

Yes this is true - we would need to abandon DX9 as well as take a fairly comprehensive amount of work on updating our art work in a way that I cannot explain well.

So a time commitment and doing away with DX9 - so it becomes a timing thing, obviously it's going to happen, time and technology waits for no one but when becomes the question. Should we really focus on this now?

thanks for taking the time to post here Russ it is appreciated.

as for the whole dx12 thing there is a lot of us who feels the time necessary to switch over to dx12 would be better spent else where.

if mwo was new then it would be no brainer. but i understand that your invested into this engine and i also understand that art assets are a beast and some how become tied to their engines in ways we as general players do not understand.

watching a myriad of game developers discuss the game engines and their art it has become apparent that some how the two become tied to each other and just implementing new whizbang technology does not always make things new and shiny.


the work you guys have accomplished on the new river city map is nothing but phenomal and i hope that forest will also be just as fantastic. these are the kinds of gains that i appreciate for i feel these are actual tangible improvements to mwo .

moving to dx12 would probably not have the same level of effect as the new maps. look forward to you and your teams future revisions. really hoping for more exciting changes to the game.
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