78 replies to this topic

[Wibbledtodeath]

Atlas and Catapult are the only 2 big mechs I salivate over when I see them on the battlefield- so easy to get damage on these things in relative safety. But the Atlas is supposed to be big (and tough)

Missile boxes are NOT the only scale issue with the catapult. Every part is easy to isolate because it is so large for a 65t. Catapult is easily my favourite victim in any match- not just the missile ones. You can pick them apart easily for lots of $$$$. They stand as tall as a stalker but have a lower cockpit so you can get em at range when they can't even see what's shooting them.
Nor does any amount of torso twisting save them (accept for the C4 BECAUSE it has big missile boxes- so you can sacrifice 2 hardpoints to shield a bit on this thing). All the others can wriggle all they want- it makes little difference because it remains large and easy to pick apart from any angle.

Even fast Jesters (no big missile arms) seem to have easier to isolate components than a king crab. (maybe its the lack of twisting+ armour that makes it feel that way?)

Dragon and Quickdraw are probably next worst heavy offenders- But at least the Quickdraw can torso twist to reduce its profile somewhat. Kitfox is oversized- and the awesome maybe. Grasshopper maybe for fluff reasons- but frankly I think their height helps balance them -they otherwise have great hard points and manoeuvrability + slim/tall profile is part of their appeal.

Frontal mechlab comparisons don't give a very complete picture. Would be nice if we have displacement volume measures of all the mechs- its not the only factor but it would give some guidance/less raw opinion.

Edited by Wibbledtodeath, 04 July 2015 - 03:08 PM.

[DivineEvil]

Votes are so far justified.
Quickdraw - Requires overall scaling down and more thinner profiles. As a low-lifter and fairly lightly armored mech by default it is just unreasonable for it to be on part with the tougher Heavy-class mechs by size. I personally liked it a lot when the original concept-art came by, but translation to the 3D-model was flawed, as apparent feeling of nibleness was not preserved - it was ruined completely.

Catapult - Was modified far beyond even the original artwork. When seen on Sarna, it is possible to visually fit two to three missile racks into the mech's torso, but in game it is impossible to fit even one the same way. Racks must definitely be dynamic. Overall scaling down might be a good idea too, although lowering the torso pivot point, cutting off much of the back-shoulder areas (where arms are attached to) and moving racks closer together into the acquired space might work.

Aside from scaling, Catapults also need two additional hardpoints on each variant, as having an outdated, stock 6x setup on such a large chassis is simply ridiculous, does not equates with any other mechs and makes it one of the most inflexible mech currently in the game after Spiders.

Grasshopper - General scaling down. It was hilarious from the very beginning. Cataphracts and Orions look at them with distress. Also might need an additional free critial slot in the head to make corresponding hardpoints relevant.

Edited by DivineEvil, 04 July 2015 - 03:11 PM.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

atlas - must be bigger.

[Juodas Varnas]

DivineEvil, on 04 July 2015 - 03:08 PM, said:

Votes are so far justified.
Quickdraw - Requires overall scaling down and more thinner profiles. As a low-lifter and fairly lightly armored mech by default it is just unreasonable for it to be on part with the tougher Heavy-class mechs by size. I personally liked it a lot when the original concept-art came by, but translation to the 3D-model was flawed, as apparent feeling of nibleness was not preserved - it was ruined completely.

I agree with the translation being botched.
It almost seems like they first made the model like the Concept, but then decided to stretch the torso out horizontally by about 10-15% and increase the arm size by about the same.

Giving it this awkward, stretched out, gorilla armed look it has now.
The way the legs are constantly bent and diagonally set, looks quite bad too.

It's a shame really. Probably the worst concept-3d translation of all mechs.

[Grey Ghost]

DivineEvil, on 04 July 2015 - 03:08 PM, said:

Grasshopper - General scaling down. It was hilarious from the very beginning. Cataphracts and Orions look at them with distress. Also might need an additional free critial slot in the head to make corresponding hardpoints relevant.

I don't really see any issue with it. Sure it's tall, but it also quite skinny / slender compared to other Mechs around it's weight. The Cataphract may be short, but it's stocky as hell.

[Gaussfather]

Objectively, Victors are too big for their weight compared to other 80 tonners. Its same size and even broader than a Highlander. If you look in the mech store its easier now to compare mech sizes. Its huge RT & LT are its real weak points.

In my mind the mechs that are just too big compared to others of similar weight:

1) Quickdraw -- obvious first choice
2) Victor
3) Dragon/Catapult -- both have HUGE side profiles
4) Shadowhawk
5) Vindicator -- bigger than an Enforcer
6) Centurion
7) Awesome -- everyone says its "too big" but actually its short and stocky compared to other mechs - similar to Centurion
8) Grasshopper -- don't own one so can't say for sure... but I find them harder to hit with ballistics due to their thinner profile
9) Kitfox -- bigger than a Spider but otherwise I find them not in the top 5 in need of a resize

I can't see why Nova's are too big.... they are low and wide by design...

[Killashnikov]

Tennex, on 03 July 2015 - 04:58 PM, said:

Should be both but,

Keep in mind that the K2 is not massively misscaled. Its even comparable to the dragon. Problem is only on the missile variant, which uses the larger C4 missile box now, and has all these crazy attachmenst that is large.





PGI will go and fix the missile extension issue

I think out of the two the Quickdraw more in need of a pure resizing, wheras with the Catapult we can get what we want when they rework the dynamic geometry for it

The only problem with that analysis is that it only deals with the profile from directly in front, which from my experience is hardly the only relevant profile....

[Tennex]

Killashnikov, on 05 July 2015 - 05:09 AM, said:

The only problem with that analysis is that it only deals with the profile from directly in front, which from my experience is hardly the only relevant profile....

Nah it uses both front and side and averages them. Says on the very top

[TinFoilHat]

Dragon - that nose
Quickdraw - all legs and waistline
Orion - needs a hitbox tune-up more than a massive rescale

[Pezzer]

I hope the Quickdraw and Grasshopper win. The Grasshopper is way too big, and the Quickdraw is too big because they decided to give it an extra damn hip section. If that hip section were taken off, the small one above the knee, it would be perfect in terms of height. Then if the torso could be thinned out just slightly, the mech would be perfect.

And @TinFoilHat I can agree, the Orion could use better hitboxes while keeping the STs larger than the CT.

Edited by Pezzer, 05 July 2015 - 12:01 PM.

[DarkonFullPower]

I am terrified of what would happen if the Dragon got rescaled. Ending up with a larger CT might be bad, but larger ST (removing wht's left of it's XL Safe), and larger arms (maybe not Left, but most certinaly Right Arm) would be even worse for it's survivability.

Like many others before me I too feel that, in general, the heavies AND mediums are slightly too tall in comparison to 35 ton light mechs. Most noticeably the jump between weight classes, even if it's only by 5 tons, is usualy a huge change of height/width in comparison to in-class 10 ton changes.

Like a few others, I too vote for a more uniform weight = scale, but NOT as a hard-fast rule. If a mechs decreesed weight does not give it a viable edge other choices, I feel a gobal de-scale on that mech is in order.

EDIT:

TinFoilHat, on 05 July 2015 - 10:12 AM, said:

Dragon - that nose

I disagree completely. That nose is how a Dragon keeps it's ST and arms safe. You are supposed to block with the CT, assuming you are in a position that you have to block at all. This is exactly why I said above that nothing else I can think of other then a global de-scale will work on the Dragon. Changing one part without changing everything else breaks either it's firepower (losing arms) or survivability (losing your XL'ed ST, as STD Dragons don't work).

Edited by DarkonFullPower, 05 July 2015 - 12:59 PM.

[SeventhSL]

Well I voted for the catapult as it really does need it but being a Mad Dog lover I just have to say that I'd love to see the length of the Mad Dogs lasers extended a bit. I just love the concept art vs the stumpy lasers in game. More in keeping with the original model.

[AC]

Have a catapult stand next to a stalker. The poor Catapult is way way too big. Its torso is not what you expect for a 65 ton mech.

[Rushin Roulette]

"That's not a moon, it's a space station Catapult"

[Phashe]

Catapults are pretty goofy. I like like shooting their ears off. (I sold all mine a year ago)

Quickdraw and Dragon are pretty useless because of their size (or component sizes), so those need love.

[Beo Vulf]

I look down on the Atlas from the cockpit of my Timberwolf. Wait I'm not supposed to be able to look down at an Atlas from the cockpit of my Timberwolf. Oh wait I can look down on that Direwolf to. Why can I look down at a 100 ton mech from the cockpit of my 75 ton mech? Scaling on mechs in general is off the only mechs that seem to have got it right are the lights for the most part.

[HlynkaCG]

The Catapult, Dragon, and Quickdraw are all substantially larger both in terms of height and volume than many mechs of equal or greater tonnage. Those are my votes.

[Bors Mistral]

Beo Vulf, on 07 July 2015 - 04:44 PM, said:

I look down on the Atlas from the cockpit of my Timberwolf...

Not sure, man. I can look down on a Timber from my Trebuchet, Grasshopper and a bunch of other IS mechs. With the exception of the Kit Fox, PGI seems to be much better at scaling clan mechs.

Jman88, on 05 July 2015 - 04:05 AM, said:

In my mind the mechs that are just too big compared to others of similar weight:

1) Quickdraw -- obvious first choice
2) Victor
3) Dragon/Catapult -- both have HUGE side profiles
4) Shadowhawk
...

How can you have the Shadowhawk on that list and not the Trebuchet? While I'd be happy if both get shrunk a little, the Treb needs it more. Just look at the numbers on the battlefield.

[Zankou Ryles]

the dragons need NO LOVE,they are too OP atm, the only heavy that needs retooled is the Grasshopper to be about the same size as the Hellbringer