23 replies to this topic

[Archangel Dino]

Whenever I use Artemis, I know that 90% of the time, my LRM's will hit the target.

But when I DON'T use Artemis, my LRM's won't always hit the target (assuming the target 'Mech is traveling in an open field with no cover). Why not? What exactly are my LRM's tracking?

I lock-onto a 'Mech, and then I fire. My missiles start traveling, but what exactly are they looking for?

1) Are they actually tracking the 'Mech but then decide to give up after a few seconds mid-flight?

2) Are they tracking the 'Mech so long as I maintain a lock with my reticule?

3) Are they really not tracking and are instead firing at my target's last known position?

4) or non of the above, and LRM's work differently than I thought?

[Koniving]

Archangel Dino, on 03 July 2015 - 05:19 PM, said:

1) Are they actually tracking the 'Mech but then decide to give up after a few seconds mid-flight?

2) Are they tracking the 'Mech so long as I maintain a lock with my reticule?

3) Are they really not tracking and are instead firing at my target's last known position?

4) or non of the above, and LRM's work differently than I thought?

1) If you lose lock, change targets, etc, yes they will give up.
2) Yes.
3) If you lose the lock, this is exactly what happens.

Overall the main thing that changes with Artemis (aside from faster lockon time and tighter grouping) is that the missiles will make more course corrections.

Typically the missiles make 2 to 8 course corrections over their flight (depending on distance). Each time it makes a correction the amount of turn is unlimited (they can literally do a 180 in place). However, they only make these corrections on certain time intervals during their flight.
(Edit: Strike through is not true. It is only on 'reacquired lock' that the course correction is unlimited [required for 'turning LRMs behind a wall' trick. The amount of standard turn does seem to be limited, leading to the infamous 'floor shower' that surrounds light mechs when the missiles make that last second attempt to turn for the pilot.)

Artemis gives them a larger number of course correction intervals by inserting several between the main ones. If you lose the lock or if the target leaves line of sight (while in the lock), you lose these course corrections.

Note: Missiles will immediately make a course correction on reacquiring the target, provided they have done no more than 8 course corrections (regular). It doesn't seem possible to run out of possible course corrections for the Artemis-enhanced LRMs before they run out of fuel and self-destruct.

Second note: LRMs track to where the target is. They do not lead ahead of the target.

Third note: Using your arms to acquire the lock for torso mounted LRMs can allow you to fire around the corner of whatever building or cliff you're using for cover. Works for torso mounted streaks, too.

Edited by Koniving, 03 July 2015 - 05:36 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Koniving, on 03 July 2015 - 05:32 PM, said:

1) If you lose lock, change targets, etc, yes they will give up.
2) Yes.
3) If you lose the lock, this is exactly what happens.

Overall the main thing that changes with Artemis (aside from faster lockon time and tighter grouping) is that the missiles will make more course corrections.

Typically the missiles make 2 to 8 course corrections over their flight (depending on distance). Each time it makes a correction the amount of turn is unlimited (they can literally do a 180 in place). However, they only make these corrections on certain time intervals during their flight.
(Edit: Strike through is not true. It is only on 'reacquired lock' that the course correction is unlimited [required for 'turning LRMs behind a wall' trick. The amount of standard turn does seem to be limited, leading to the infamous 'floor shower' that surrounds light mechs when the missiles make that last second attempt to turn for the pilot.)

Artemis gives them a larger number of course correction intervals by inserting several between the main ones. If you lose the lock or if the target leaves line of sight (while in the lock), you lose these course corrections.

Note: Missiles will immediately make a course correction on reacquiring the target, provided they have done no more than 8 course corrections (regular). It doesn't seem possible to run out of possible course corrections for the Artemis-enhanced LRMs before they run out of fuel and self-destruct.

Second note: LRMs track to where the target is. They do not lead ahead of the target.

Third note: Using your arms to acquire the lock for torso mounted LRMs can allow you to fire around the corner of whatever building or cliff you're using for cover. Works for torso mounted streaks, too.

They removed the 180 turn thing. I believe

EDIT: As in, you can't do the curve around the buildings, trick anymore.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 03 July 2015 - 06:07 PM.

[Spike Brave]

I've got a couple videos where I go through all the missile systems. I hope they help.

[mailin]

Essentially, you need to make sure that you have a target lock before firing lrms. This is indicted by the reticle changing color. And you need to maintain that lock until the lrms hit. A lot of pilots will fire lrms as soon as they press the R key. But the lrms aren't locked yet. Also, a lot of pilots will fire an lrm volley and turn away from the locked enemy thinking those lrms will hit. In this case, unless the mech isn't moving they generally won't hit. Press R, wait until the reitcle changes color, fire lrms, wait to see if they hit, and then repeat. As a general rule do not change directions or targets until your initial target is destroyed or a greater threat presents itself; such as an enemy approaching your position.

[Vlad Striker]

Quote

Whenever I use Artemis, I know that 90% of the time, my LRM's will hit the target.

Not exactly, Artemis system works only at direct fire. If you change lock or target moves behing obstacle missiles loses maneuverability and "compactification".

Edited by Vlad Striker, 05 July 2015 - 10:21 PM.

[Eider]

press r to lock on.. fire missiles.. keep firing at least 900m.. use beagle, use module target decay, read a book, profit.

[IraqiWalker]

Eider, on 05 July 2015 - 12:53 PM, said:

press r to lock on.. fire missiles.. keep firing at least 900m.. use beagle, use module target decay, read a book, profit.

Please don't follow the 900 meters part. If you fire LRMs at anything beyond 700 meters, it's a genuine waste of ammo. I'm reluctant to fire at even 700.

[Rogue Jedi]

it sounds counter-intuitive but I find LRMs to be most effective at 200-400m, the enemy has that much less time to find cover so the missiles are more likely to hit

[Pocket_Aces]

Spike Brave, on 03 July 2015 - 07:12 PM, said:

I've got a couple videos where I go through all the missile systems. I hope they help.

You are correct, it has a lot to do with ping, the higher the ping the longer it takes to acquire a solid lock.

Rogue Jedi, on 05 July 2015 - 10:32 PM, said:

it sounds counter-intuitive but I find LRMs to be most effective at 200-400m, the enemy has that much less time to find cover so the missiles are more likely to hit

More like 400 to 600m, if you are too close the missiles don't have enough arc to get over terrain and friendlies. You are close enough to your allies in case you need back up and further enough away so you dont become a priority.

Edited by MatesRates, 06 July 2015 - 08:24 AM.

[mailin]

True about the LRMs not being able to arc, but the advatage of such short range is that AMS becomes much less effective.

[Rogue Jedi]

MatesRates, on 06 July 2015 - 08:10 AM, said:

More like 400 to 600m, if you are too close the missiles don't have enough arc to get over terrain and friendlies. You are close enough to your allies in case you need back up and further enough away so you dont become a priority.

I usualy use LRMs more for suppression or direct fire support as opposed to indirect fire support, so the arc issue is less of a problem for me than most LRM users but I do see your point, however here is my work arround,

if your missiles are not clearing an obstacle between you and the enemy, get the lock, move your cross hare up as high as it will go, fire then drop your cross hare back onto target, the first missile fires up at a steeper angle than it would if you were staying on target and all missiles seem to follow its trajectory regardless of what you do, as this technique does not require much precision you can usualy get back on target without loosing the lock.

[Pocket_Aces]

AMS range is 120m effective, 240m max, not enough to make a difference I would think.

[IraqiWalker]

Rogue Jedi, on 06 July 2015 - 08:26 AM, said:

I usualy use LRMs more for suppression or direct fire support as opposed to indirect fire support, so the arc issue is less of a problem for me than most LRM users but I do see your point, however here is my work arround,

if your missiles are not clearing an obstacle between you and the enemy, get the lock, move your cross hare up as high as it will go, fire then drop your cross hare back onto target, the first missile fires up at a steeper angle than it would if you were staying on target and all missiles seem to follow its trajectory regardless of what you do, as this technique does not require much precision you can usualy get back on target without loosing the lock.

I raise my cockpit up, then use the CTRL key to lower my mouse down. Allowing me to maintain lock, while firing at that quirky angle. It's still not powerful enough to compensate for the 400-600 meter very high arc LRMs get.

[Koniving]

IraqiWalker, on 03 July 2015 - 05:57 PM, said:

They removed the 180 turn thing. I believe

EDIT: As in, you can't do the curve around the buildings, trick anymore.

I haven't noticed that, but then again I haven't been able to do it because my current missile boats can't lose the locks as easily. You'd need to be able to lose the lock almost instantly and then reacquire and lock again. I'll have to try doing some missile tricks after my modules.

[StonedDead]

If you have direct line of sight, and your target has no cover(IE wide open ground found on a few maps), ignore the short ranges people are suggesting. Otherwise, they are correct to hold fire until closer. Also, if you are playing on a team with a designated tageter(light mech probably) who calls for fire, hit them.

[Koniving]

IraqiWalker, on 06 July 2015 - 09:04 AM, said:

I raise my cockpit up, then use the CTRL key to lower my mouse down. Allowing me to maintain lock, while firing at that quirky angle. It's still not powerful enough to compensate for the 400-600 meter very high arc LRMs get.

Like this.

[InspectorG]

Why settle for just LRMing?

Warhawk with 5MPL, LRM45. Clan LRM are decent for 'close' range and the rattle scares some Puggers while you Wub them.

Win/Win.

I hate LRMs (other than this and my HBK-J) and im thinking of getting a Target Retention Module for drive-by LuRMs...

[Koniving]

InspectorG, on 06 July 2015 - 06:03 PM, said:

Why settle for just LRMing?

Warhawk

This. And unlike my Adder video (which was actually about how easily it is killed for its size and what you have to resort to in order to do anything useful), the Warhawk vids are pretty epic.

A final stand of an Awesome (XL engine, less than 225 points of armor total) and a Warhawk (fully armored and armed) up against Dire Wolves, Timber Wolves, Spiders and Kitfoxes. I was watching a youtube video (LRM'ing can be a very boring and easy task, I tend to alt tab a lot) when crap got serious which is why you're hearing the stuff in the background.

Larger group versus group combat.

Early on my Warhawk is almost decimated, so I wind up pulling support fire from the background. Even so I still manage to lay down good amounts of direct and indirect weapons fire.

Obviously my choice weaponry isn't the same as Inspector G's. It's still pretty effective.

[Dashen]

I find myself in trouble understanding how exactly lrm damage works, it seems it does no damage, i have lrm30 + artemis and it simply doesn't do much damage even when i hit targets at medium ranges.