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Pgi. P Stand For Piranha


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#21 One Medic Army

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 10:16 AM

View PostOzealot, on 05 July 2015 - 08:53 AM, said:

Of course the Huginn is balanced. You can ask everyone who has one how balanced it is. Aside from that SRMs still have heat output, so I doubt you will reach that 17 dps, but I don't care enough to check it. Oh, and apparently not only bad light pilots rely on avoiding enemy fire by closing distance, because I do too. And when they do, they can't be that bad at all.

You know, we obviously are playing a very different game. Are LRMs effective in the one you play? Is the LBX10? Do streak missiles strike more fear into your heart than someone with a giant pack of lasers?

The game I play people know about cover and aiming. Having to face the enemy for more than a second at a time without twisting or getting behind cover is a great way to die.

And yeah, hugging an assault so close their weapons fire over your head is the height of lazy light piloting, and begs for a team-mate to come by and swat you.

#22 Mardek

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 10:33 AM

View PostOne Medic Army, on 05 July 2015 - 10:16 AM, said:


View PostOzealot, on 05 July 2015 - 10:27 AM, said:



pls guys stand togheter to support the making of this marvellous machine :) while not effective would add a ton of fun and dakka to the game. Peace B)

Edited by Mardek, 05 July 2015 - 10:34 AM.


#23 Shadow Magnet

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 10:36 AM

I always wanted to get that mech once I stumbled upon it on Sarna. But that was back then when MG were more useful.

So yes, please PGI, bring this mech and bring MG love! And flamer love, while you are at it. My wallet is ready B)

#24 One Medic Army

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 10:41 AM

View PostOzealot, on 05 July 2015 - 10:27 AM, said:

Duly noted. I'd love to see some proof of your high ELO tale you try to sell me here. Feel free to pass on that if you can't. Anyway, your smack talk skills are below average so far. But maybe you are holding back to spare me. Btw, are you promoting teamkilling here?

Your target's team-mate. You know, one of the other 11 people who shoot at you? Someone who's going to have a really easy target on someone who sits close to an assault barely moving?

I never said I was high Elo, I just said we're playing a different game. Maybe everyone in high Elo matches thinks the Ember isn't a pile of crap and loves to face hug, maybe I'm in the under hive with aimed shots and light mechs dying in 1 good alpha everywhere.

Edited by One Medic Army, 05 July 2015 - 10:45 AM.


#25 RedlineHunter

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 10:43 AM

I'd take one, maybe they can buff mgs while there at it.

#26 Burktross

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 11:06 AM

give
me
the mgs
also headbob but you know.

View PostIraqiWalker, on 05 July 2015 - 09:38 AM, said:

I wonder how they would feel about this 6 MG King Crab?

KGC-000

Truly the bane of all mechs.

#27 Aim64C

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 11:24 AM

View PostOne Medic Army, on 05 July 2015 - 10:41 AM, said:

Your target's team-mate. You know, one of the other 11 people who shoot at you? Someone who's going to have a really easy target on someone who sits close to an assault barely moving?

I never said I was high Elo, I just said we're playing a different game. Maybe everyone in high Elo matches thinks the Ember isn't a pile of crap and loves to face hug, maybe I'm in the under hive with aimed shots and light mechs dying in 1 good alpha everywhere.


I'll second this.

There was a locust I saw that was a rather interesting build - had six or so small pulse lasers with some really good forward and reverse acceleration. He'd dip out, pop a good salvo into my team or I's face, then dip back behind cover. It was really effective if you were fixated on the Zeus blundering up the center but spraying damage all over the place.

Melted him with a single alpha.

Sure - he was 'just a locust,' but if left unchecked, that locust was delivering something like 30 points of near instant damage on target if he's inside of his effective range. That's worth taking a few moments to put a stop to it right then and there.

Did the same to a Jenner in another match.

Sure - they can run, but even glancing blows from 54 point / 0.5 second alphas (or... whatever the quirks bring it to) can be enough to open internals on light mechs, and a solid hit will bust out whatever component it's hitting.

The survival of this thing would be very dependent upon selecting scenarios where you can be ignored by the things that can insta-kill you and getting out of Dodge the moment anything looks your direction until your team has an overwhelming numbers advantage.

Although it could be really fun to group with a 4-man in this thing.

#28 One Medic Army

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 11:34 AM

View PostOzealot, on 05 July 2015 - 11:14 AM, said:

I never wrote I'm barely moving. I wrote I avoid enemy fire by closing distance and getting into touching distance. But reading about your angry statements about "facehuggin", Embers being "piles of crap", "Light swatting" and stuff I start to think you are a member of the famous OPFOR unit. Well it can't be me, we never seen each other ingame - playing a different game and all. Or maybe you should just start to make actual hot drops instead of going for a walk in the testing grounds or sniffing around in the tutorial, that may rise your chance to swat me. You may then start to notice that skilled LRM boat players can be a problem - either by denying your team mobility and making it vulnerable for flanking maneuvers or just doing severe damage with the help of a clever spotter. You may also notice that an enemy Mech with six CSSRM6 is to be considered a threat, even when not in a light and a preferred target at that. And the possibility is higher that your armor gets stripped when somebody is shooting back at you so that an LBX can make short work of your components. But you are a Medic eh? RP and all, I get it.

So many assumptions. I'm a light and medium pilot primarily, and the name is from playing TF2.

But whatever, you are obviously the highest of Elo players, and what you xperience in game is indicative of the highest levels of skill.

ggclose?

#29 Aim64C

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 12:31 PM

View PostOzealot, on 05 July 2015 - 11:14 AM, said:


I never wrote I'm barely moving. I wrote I avoid enemy fire by closing distance and getting into touching distance.


That works when you catch someone out of position who isn't paying attention and is too isolated from his team to have effective support.

It's very difficult to keep your motion perpendicular to two or three targets while remaining tight enough to your primary target to stay ahead of his firing arc. When I notice things like a Raven blasting SRMs at one of my team mates at close range, I generally wait for his line of motion to come parallel with my line of fire, and open up on the waist/leg - although with a solid hit, it really doesn't matter what it connects with - the Raven's fun just ended.

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But reading about your angry statements about "facehuggin", Embers being "piles of crap", "Light swatting" and stuff I start to think you are a member of the famous OPFOR unit.


The way you said it does strongly imply 'face hugging.'

Though we are all essentially members of the opposition force at any given time.

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Well it can't be me, we never seen each other ingame - playing a different game and all.


Honestly, I don't look at the names very often, or expect other people to. Occasionally, a name will jump out at me that I recognize. Like FupDup last night. Twice, actually - once on the same team, another time on opposing teams (where his team rolled mine on Caustic).

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Or maybe you should just start to make actual hot drops instead of going for a walk in the testing grounds or sniffing around in the tutorial, that may rise your chance to swat me.


Frankly, I wouldn't remember your name if I already have.

I doubt he would, either.

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You may then start to notice that skilled LRM boat players can be a problem - either by denying your team mobility and making it vulnerable for flanking maneuvers or just doing severe damage with the help of a clever spotter.


See - when you clear a room, you stack up on the entrance and everyone goes through the door. The point man likely takes a face full of lead and the team behind him literally pushes his body through while bringing their weapons to bear from behind it. Preferably - you have something like a flash, frag, or concussion grenade to give the point man a chance at life, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

Likewise - when an organized team makes a forward push, they are flooding the opening with bodies and incoming firepower to overwhelm the temporary resistance while using the first couple mechs in the line as a bullet sponge. Disorganized resistance teams will spike their heat and limit their fighting capability as the rush focuses down the defending team.

The reality is that LRMs don't really deny much territory that a dual gauss build or multi-PPC build doesn't, already. They don't offer the kinds of damage delivery to blunt advances, and their time on target is a further obstacle to effectively use them to reinforce units on a flank.

I'll ignore dual LRM-20 salvos when the team is pushing. I can eat a few of those in most of my 'mechs before the damage starts to add to anything.

They -can- be used in a manner that is most effective given their operating mechanics. However, when compared with other weapon systems and other battlemechs that we are completely free use as individuals or when constructing a team, there's little reason to use LRMs as they are not competitive with the capabilities of other weapon systems.

This is before you add other dimensions to the field - such as ECM. Against any organized team, they are going to have ECM simply because it enhances the ability of direct fire 'mechs to strike at opponents without a red box ensuring the threat is recognized as not being part of the terrain.

Basically "clever spotters" have to peel away from the team to get good firing angles. This makes them vulnerable to maneuvering by the opposing team, particularly other light mechs. While UAVs have made it possible to spot without having to stare cross-eyed and drooling at enemies (possibly with a conveniently visible laser jutting out of your head), it's still a role that places considerable tonnage on your team in a state of dependence upon the survival of a typically very light and fragile 'mech.

We would call this "many moving parts" and "a point of failure."

There's no reason for a team to incorporate LRMs into their strategy within a competitive environment. They can be run in such a way as to not be completely and utterly useless, but if a player can run LRMs competently, they can likely run lasers and ballistics relatively competently, too - and for much greater effect.

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You may also notice that an enemy Mech with six CSSRM6 is to be considered a threat, even when not in a light and a preferred target at that.


The main reason it isn't a threat worth shifting everyone's attention to is that it is considerably hampered by range and limited in what targets it can be effective against.

I've run a few 4xSRM6 builds, and while the SRMs are not to be forgotten about, they really aren't all that effective unless I have something like 3 large pulse lasers providing ample point damage to give the SRMs something to work with. Generally speaking, those builds, even with the 3 large pulse lasers, don't have the point damage delivery to really do much to drop an incoming advance or to make an effective exchange during an advance of its own.

That isn't to say that they aren't useful - but that they are a far cry from the old "splatcat."

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And the possibility is higher that your armor gets stripped when somebody is shooting back at you so that an LBX can make short work of your components. But you are a Medic eh? RP and all, I get it.


Generally speaking, you're better off with a UAC5 than an LB10. While there are circumstances where the LB10 offers advantages over the UAC5, you can peel more armor off with the UAC-5 and have more internal components exposed to weapons fire in the first place, rather than carrying the LB10 for the advantages it has when armor has already been stripped.

It just doesn't make sense to build for the conditional scenarios beyond your control.

That said - I've built fun "scatter" builds that were just LBs and SRMs for the sake of just casting a wide net. They aren't what I'd term 'optimal' builds by comparison to others - but they are fun and can be effective in the right circumstances.

#30 stjobe

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 12:51 PM

View PostIraqiWalker, on 05 July 2015 - 09:22 AM, said:

There is no 6MG spider in the game (the K has 4). I think you meant 6 MG Jagermech, and 6 MG Arrow.

It's from Ask the Devs #35, answer to question 3 (emphasis mine):

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CCQ 3: Why is Machine Gun damage so low?
A: Partly due to the nature of how MGs work in the TT rules, partially due to how we chose to make it useful. When equipping a MG, keep in mind that it is not meant to burn through armor but is very useful for tearing up internals (crits). Bumping MG damage will turn it into a laser that can be kept on with no heat penalty until it runs out of ammo. Now imagine the devastating effect that a 6 MG spider could do to the back of an Atlas! We are still investigating balance of the MG but don’t expect any significant increase in damage.

Worst. Smokescreen. Excuse. Ever.

Well, perhaps the 3-second Jenner compares, but it's up there. It's wrong in just about every way, and especially hilarious after the 4xML, 4xMG Ember made its début - not to mention that the reference to TT is just about bone-headed in its inaccuracy. The TT MG does exactly as much damage as an AC/2, just at extremely short range. The MWO AC/2 does 3.5 times the DPS of the MG, and the AC/2's alpha is 25 times that of the MG's.

Also, a "crit weapon" mechanic is utterly stupid in a game where every weapon has a 42% chance to crit.

Now remember, this was back in April 2013, when MGs did 0.04 damage per "bullet" (1/50th of an AC/2 shot...), half of what they do today. What we had back then was the MG Mk. II; we're currently on Mk. VII:

Posted Image
(History of the MG, accurate as per 2015-05-30)

So yeah, little history lesson there to brighten up everyone's day :)

Edited by stjobe, 05 July 2015 - 12:56 PM.


#31 jss78

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 12:54 PM

View PostFupDup, on 05 July 2015 - 07:31 AM, said:

That's 100% more devastation than the 6MG Spider.


Quoted for stone-cold, mathematical truth.

If they ever bring this out, I'll buy it and play the living *ell out of it!

Can you imagine the dakka-tastic games we'd get if this thing ever came out? As with the Urbie this spring, I figure we'd be facing all-Piranha light lances for a few days at least. That's a 48 MG sandblasting to any poor soul they happen to focus.

#32 Nightshade24

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 02:14 PM

I think now is a good time to buff MG's and Flamers...

#33 Nightshade24

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 02:19 PM

Note: this is a good mech regardless of MG's being good at the moment or bad, it's the only option for a 20 ton light mech the clans can get (Locust IIC is 25 ton) (Firemoth is like 100 kph to fast).

I wounder if it is possible to have one with 12 er small lasers....

#34 IraqiWalker

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 10:05 PM

View PostAim64C, on 05 July 2015 - 09:56 AM, said:


... LMAO - who the hell thinks of this stuff?

Is that a question you REALLY want answered?

#35 bad arcade kitty

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 10:08 PM

it would lead to yet another mg nerf

ghost heat on zero heat mg (:

#36 bad arcade kitty

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 10:11 PM

View PostOne Medic Army, on 05 July 2015 - 07:54 AM, said:

I'd be so sad. Because in TT that thing is an unholy terror with the equivalent of 2 heat-free SRM6s when it comes to damage output. In MWO it'd be complete garbage.


are you kidding

12 mgs in mwo would be.... would be simply broken

it's 9.6 dps per second, it could kill an assault (considering critical hits on the internals) from behind in several seconds

#37 Shadow Magnet

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 10:14 PM

View Postbad arcade kitty, on 05 July 2015 - 10:11 PM, said:


are you kidding

12 mgs in mwo would be.... would be simply broken

it's 9.6 dps per second, it could kill an assault (considering critical hits on the internals) from behind in several seconds
How many seconds does your assault last if you let a pulse laser boat Firestarter or a Huginn in your back?

#38 IraqiWalker

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 10:16 PM

View PostShadow Magnet, on 05 July 2015 - 10:14 PM, said:

How many seconds does your assault last if you let a pulse laser boat Firestarter or a Huginn in your back?


Less than against a 12 MG mech.

#39 bad arcade kitty

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 10:31 PM

View PostShadow Magnet, on 05 July 2015 - 10:14 PM, said:

How many seconds does your assault last if you let a pulse laser boat Firestarter or a Huginn in your back?


this most popular on smurfy crab build http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9ab07cca133ee73 has 8 armor on the back
crab also has 62 hp of ct structure

this most popular on smurfy firestarter build http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7161afac1399b07 has alpha 30, therefore it needs 3 alphas to the back to kill the crab, all shots completely landed, it's 6 seconds minimum (first alpha + 3 sec cd + second alpha + 3 sec cd + third alpha), it's also a hot build

now, 12 mg piranha with her 9.6 dps would eat 8 armor in 0.8 sec and then

from wiki http://mwo.gamepedia.com/Machine_Gun
>It has a 39% chance to deal 1 Critical Hit, 22% chance to deal 2 critical hits, and 6% chance to deal 3 critical hits.

each mg shoots 10 bullets per second, it means each mg deals 3.9+[2.2*2]4.4+[0.6*3]1.8 = 10,1 damage per second to the internals (honestly i'm not sure how these chances should be summed up but at the very end it's ~5+ damage per second) and it has 12 of them... it will eat 62 hp of crab in either ~0.5 second or at the very end in ~1 second, so the crab is dead in either 0.8+0.5=1.3 seconds or at the very end in 1.8 seconds; firestarter don't even get his lasers from cd

and it's zero heat

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 05 July 2015 - 10:40 PM.


#40 One Medic Army

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 10:33 PM

View Postbad arcade kitty, on 05 July 2015 - 10:11 PM, said:

are you kidding

12 mgs in mwo would be.... would be simply broken

it's 9.6 dps per second, it could kill an assault (considering critical hits on the internals) from behind in several seconds

If you let anything shoot you in the back with something as blindingly obvious as 12 MGs for several seconds, you don't deserve to be an assault pilot. Anything will kill you through the back in seconds, in any mech.

12MGs on a 20tonner would be much less good than the Huginn, or the Firestarter, or the Ravens. Heck, it'd probably be less good than the Pirate's Bane (unless there's an ECM pod).





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