21 replies to this topic

[Mcchuggernaut]

So it looks like most votes are going to the Awesome, but I disagree. I do think it should be smaller, but I think the assault mech that needs re-sized the most is actually the Warhawk. I mean come on, it's almost exactly the same size as a Dire Wolf, but with a lot less armor and tonnage. Hell, people often focus-fire you because at a distance they think you ARE a Dire. The overall percentage by which the size is off for the tonnage for the Awesome and Warhawk is about the same, but where the Awesome is wide and FLAT, the Warhawk is wide all around. It's basically a huge box on legs. The Awesome has pretty good shield arms too, which are very useful for soaking up damage. Have you ever tried torso-twisting in a Warhawk, though? Don't make me laugh. It's just as big from the side as the front, with USELESS shield arms. No matter how you turn, the enemy can either hit any torso they please or you are presenting your back, and you are a huge 100-ton-sized target in an 85 ton mech.

Screw perfect cannon, this is an online shooter. Some things that work in the lore or TT game don't translate correctly into it. As far as I am concerned, there should be a perfectly linear relationship of size to tonnage, since being harder to hit because of speed and smaller size is what makes up for a mech being lighter and not able to pack as many weapons and as much armor. A Dire Wolf sized Jenner would get shredded in seconds, even if it was still capable of moving at over 100kph.

Anyway, I digress. The Awesome and the Warhawk both need a size tweak, but I think the Warhawk actually needs it more.

[Coralld]

The Awesome isant tall, true, but its stupidly wide and needs to be some what skinnier.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mcchuggernaut, on 06 July 2015 - 07:38 PM, said:

So it looks like most votes are going to the Awesome, but I disagree. I do think it should be smaller, but I think the assault mech that needs re-sized the most is actually the Warhawk. I mean come on, it's almost exactly the same size as a Dire Wolf, but with a lot less armor and tonnage. Hell, people often focus-fire you because at a distance they think you ARE a Dire. The overall percentage by which the size is off for the tonnage for the Awesome and Warhawk is about the same, but where the Awesome is wide and FLAT, the Warhawk is wide all around. It's basically a huge box on legs. The Awesome has pretty good shield arms too, which are very useful for soaking up damage. Have you ever tried torso-twisting in a Warhawk, though? Don't make me laugh. It's just as big from the side as the front, with USELESS shield arms. No matter how you turn, the enemy can either hit any torso they please or you are presenting your back, and you are a huge 100-ton-sized target in an 85 ton mech.

Screw perfect cannon, this is an online shooter. Some things that work in the lore or TT game don't translate correctly into it. As far as I am concerned, there should be a perfectly linear relationship of size to tonnage, since being harder to hit because of speed and smaller size is what makes up for a mech being lighter and not able to pack as many weapons and as much armor. A Dire Wolf sized Jenner would get shredded in seconds, even if it was still capable of moving at over 100kph.

Anyway, I digress. The Awesome and the Warhawk both need a size tweak, but I think the Warhawk actually needs it more.

Question...which mech is more viable in game, in MWO? Which mech is more heavily represented. In both cases, it's the Warhawk. Even the Gargoyle outnumbers the Awesome.

[Mcchuggernaut]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 July 2015 - 07:46 PM, said:

Question...which mech is more viable in game, in MWO? Which mech is more heavily represented. In both cases, it's the Warhawk. Even the Gargoyle outnumbers the Awesome.

^valid, but I think that's because the Warhawk is new and exciting, whereas the Awesome is an old (by MWO standards) chassis that people have gotten tired of playing, and that in ADDITION to it's extreme wideness is the reason for this. And the Gargoyle also has that "newness" factor, along with OP clan lasers. Once the Clan lasers find their final balance and the novelty wears off, I think the Gargoyle will actually be the next "worst assault mech".

[One Medic Army]

The Warhawks is too big compared to the dire...

Because the Dire itself is too small. Ought to be bigger.

[Mcchuggernaut]

Coralld, on 06 July 2015 - 07:45 PM, said:

The Awesome isant tall, true, but its stupidly wide and needs to be some what skinnier.

Yup, it DOES need a wideness fix, but the Warhawk needs an overall fatness fix. It's too wide in all 3 dimensions. It is probably the best missile boat in the game, but suffers from a real glass jaw because of it's size. It's O.K. as a laser boat, but only because Clan lasers are a bit too powerful right now, and as soon as they are balanced or the Warhawk gets a heat nerf it won't be anything special as a laser boat any more. And this WILL happen. Then you just have a too-big mech that's easy to kill.

Edited by Mcchuggernaut, 06 July 2015 - 08:14 PM.

[Mcchuggernaut]

One Medic Army, on 06 July 2015 - 08:04 PM, said:

The Warhawks is too big compared to the dire...

Because the Dire itself is too small. Ought to be bigger.

Now, I would agree with that if it wasn't for the fact that it is the slowest mech in the game and the engine size can't be changed. Half the time you die in a Dire it's because you just can't keep up with a fast team, and you get left behind and swarmed. That's not an issue if you have friends to play with who realize this and support you, but it's brutal in PUGs. If it was made any bigger it's actual viability might decrease to the point where people quit using it.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mcchuggernaut, on 06 July 2015 - 08:12 PM, said:

Now, I would agree with that if it wasn't for the fact that it is the slowest mech in the game and the engine size can't be changed. Half the time you die in a Dire it's because you just can't keep up with a fast team, and you get left behind and swarmed. That's not an issue if you have friends to play with who realize this and support you, but it's brutal in PUGs. If it was made any bigger it's actual viability might decrease to the point where people quit using it.

how can you not want to help this guy?!?!

[El Bandito]

Mcchuggernaut, on 06 July 2015 - 08:05 PM, said:

Yup, it DOES need a wideness fix, but the Warhawk needs an overall fatness fix. It's too wide in all 3 dimensions. It is probably the best missile boat in the game, but suffers from a real glass jaw because of it's size. It's O.K. as a laser boat, but only because Clan lasers are a bit too powerful right now, and as soon as they are balanced or the Warhawk gets a heat nerf it won't be anything special as a laser boat any more. And this WILL happen. Then you just have a too-big mech that's easy to kill.

Awesome's fatness is further made worse by the 300 engine cap AND fragile IS XL. It should be thinner and taller.

IF and very big if the Clan lasers are nerfed, then we can talk about Warhawk's re-sizing. Don't worry, PGI will do more of this in the future.

Edited by El Bandito, 06 July 2015 - 08:32 PM.

[One Medic Army]

Mcchuggernaut, on 06 July 2015 - 08:12 PM, said:

Now, I would agree with that if it wasn't for the fact that it is the slowest mech in the game and the engine size can't be changed. Half the time you die in a Dire it's because you just can't keep up with a fast team, and you get left behind and swarmed. That's not an issue if you have friends to play with who realize this and support you, but it's brutal in PUGs. If it was made any bigger it's actual viability might decrease to the point where people quit using it.

My heart truly weeps for what is arguably one of (if not the) best assaults in the game. Try playing an atlas some time. All the firepower of an anemic clan heavy, with none of the speed. And it's a larger target than the Dwolf.

Edited by One Medic Army, 06 July 2015 - 08:26 PM.

[Kiiyor]

Mcchuggernaut, on 06 July 2015 - 07:38 PM, said:

Anyway, I digress. The Awesome and the Warhawk both need a size tweak, but I think the Warhawk actually needs it more.

I disagree, in the midget-legged fattest-torso'ed way possible.

The Awesome is disgustingly poorly proportioned. It's height is fine, but it has smaller (height wise) legs than many mediums, with the differential being made up with a hideously stretched torso.

Seriously, look at those legs:



Now look at the Awesome's legs again, and compare them to the Hunchback's.

Torsos are everything in this game, and the Awesome's are unequivocally the worst. I'd pilot a billion WorHorks before I jumped into my Awesome again, and the Awesome is my favourite mech.

Edit: no idea who owns that pic either. Nice idea on the resize in the middle though, whoever you are.

Edited by Kiiyor, 06 July 2015 - 08:49 PM.

[El Bandito]

Kiiyor, on 06 July 2015 - 08:39 PM, said:

I disagree, in the midget-legged fattest-torso'ed way possible.

The Awesome is disgustingly poorly proportioned. It's height is fine, but it has smaller (height wise) legs than many mediums, with the differential being made up with a hideously stretched torso.

Seriously, look at those legs:



Now look at the Awesome's legs again, and compare them to the Hunchback's.

Torsos are everything in this game, and the Awesome's are unequivocally the worst. I'd pilot a billion WorHorks before I jumped into my Awesome again, and the Awesome is my favourite mech.

Edit: no idea who owns that pic either. Nice idea on the resize in the middle though, whoever you are.

Your Catapult ears are too small.

Edited by El Bandito, 06 July 2015 - 08:50 PM.

[Mcchuggernaut]

El Bandito, on 06 July 2015 - 08:23 PM, said:

Don't worry, PGI will do more of this in the future.

This "future" you speak of...PGI has set a scary precedent of the future being translated as "never" or "years later".

[Mcchuggernaut]

Kiiyor, on 06 July 2015 - 08:39 PM, said:

I disagree, in the midget-legged fattest-torso'ed way possible.

The Awesome is disgustingly poorly proportioned. It's height is fine, but it has smaller (height wise) legs than many mediums, with the differential being made up with a hideously stretched torso.

Seriously, look at those legs:



Now look at the Awesome's legs again, and compare them to the Hunchback's.

Torsos are everything in this game, and the Awesome's are unequivocally the worst. I'd pilot a billion WorHorks before I jumped into my Awesome again, and the Awesome is my favourite mech.

Edit: no idea who owns that pic either. Nice idea on the resize in the middle though, whoever you are.

Looks like what the Awesome needs more than a re-size is a re-design. Therefore, this RE-SIZING poll would exclude the awesome because it doesn't actually need re-sized...But I do agree, as does anyone with a right and sane mind, that the Awesome needs work. Just maybe not a re-size.

[Bishop Steiner]

Kiiyor, on 06 July 2015 - 08:39 PM, said:

I disagree, in the midget-legged fattest-torso'ed way possible.

The Awesome is disgustingly poorly proportioned. It's height is fine, but it has smaller (height wise) legs than many mediums, with the differential being made up with a hideously stretched torso.

Seriously, look at those legs:



Now look at the Awesome's legs again, and compare them to the Hunchback's.

Torsos are everything in this game, and the Awesome's are unequivocally the worst. I'd pilot a billion WorHorks before I jumped into my Awesome again, and the Awesome is my favourite mech.

Edit: no idea who owns that pic either. Nice idea on the resize in the middle though, whoever you are.

that, would be me, actually, lol.

[Fuggles]

Mcchuggernaut, on 06 July 2015 - 07:38 PM, said:

Anyway, I digress. The Awesome and the Warhawk both need a size tweak, but I think the Warhawk actually needs it more.

if you read how the actual selection process will work that they posted in that thread theres nothing that says the awesome AND warhawk cant both get resized. its top 3 per class go to a new poll, and the top 5 of those 12 get picked.

2100 people (myself included) voted for the awesome because its just overall to large. the warhawk isnt too large, it just suffers from poor hitbox design and could get by with greater ST defensive quirks. they tried giving it twisting quirks (wich are awesome) and arm defensive quirks but like you pointed out, the ST is very easy to single out.

[Mcchuggernaut]

One Medic Army, on 06 July 2015 - 08:26 PM, said:

My heart truly weeps for what is arguably one of (if not the) best assaults in the game. Try playing an atlas some time. All the firepower of an anemic clan heavy, with none of the speed. And it's a larger target than the Dwolf.

Wait, wait, wait: I can build you an Atlas that runs at 64kph and is one of the best brawlers in the game:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2b17da7a8b33bf0

^That is something to be feared. And if you want to make it as slow as a Dire by putting a crappy engine in it, you can make it hit harder. I like the speed, myself. Plus, this guy has ECM and the Dire doesn't, which makes the Dire a missile magnet. An Atlas D-DC doesn't have to worry much about that, and can shield the mechs around it as well.

Edited by Mcchuggernaut, 06 July 2015 - 09:22 PM.

[One Medic Army]

Mcchuggernaut, on 06 July 2015 - 09:19 PM, said:

Wait, wait, wait: I can build you an Atlas that runs at 64kph and is one of the best brawlers in the game:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2b17da7a8b33bf0

^That is something to be feared. And if you want to make it as slow as a Dire by putting a crappy engine in it, you can make it hit harder. I like the speed, myself. Plus, this guy has ECM and the Dire doesn't, which makes the Dire a missile magnet. An Atlas D-DC doesn't have to worry much about that, and can shield the mechs around it as well.

65 tons, faster, slightly hotter, similar firepower, no ECM, longer range.

So I'm not really impressed. Summoner, Timberwolf, and Hellbringer can all do something similar; if not exactly the same.

[Mcchuggernaut]

One Medic Army, on 06 July 2015 - 09:33 PM, said:

65 tons, faster, slightly hotter, similar firepower, no ECM, longer range.

So I'm not really impressed. Summoner, Timberwolf, and Hellbringer can all do something similar; if not exactly the same.

With much less armor. NOTHING tanks damage like an Atlas, thanks to it's geometry and quirks. Also, I would argue that the Atlas isn't under-powered, rather that the mechs you mentioned are over-powered at the moment.

Edited by Mcchuggernaut, 06 July 2015 - 09:57 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

The Warhawk isn't really that bad, most assaults that aren't Stalkers and Dire Wolves are as large as the Warhawk.
Then look at the Awesome, which has a larger torso than the notoriously broad Battlemaster despite being 5 tons smaller. It has around 15-20% less in leg height yet still is almost as tall as the Battlemaster. A redesign would be nice, but at least until that happens (if it ever happens) it would be nice if it weren't so large.