92 replies to this topic

[charov]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 July 2015 - 09:50 AM, said:

Which is why Stormcrows outnumber Gridirons like 10 to 1 in game?


well, wannabe leets

Because it's.. PAYTOWIN!

[Joseph Mallan]

Quote

Offending individuals on the forum through direct, concise and honest observation since somewhere around 2000

Wait... You are serious?

Try harder!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 07 July 2015 - 09:53 AM.

[CygnusX7]

My sighs are sighing.
I'm all sigh'd out.

[Joseph Mallan]

CygnusX7, on 07 July 2015 - 09:54 AM, said:

My sighs are sighing.
I'm all sigh'd out.

Its the sighn of the times Cygnus.

[MeiSooHaityu]

This is the funny thing (IMO anyway).

Clan weapons and equipment are superior to the IS. They are lighter, often take less crit space, go farther, and hit harder. There is some balancing efforts like longer duration for clan energy or burst rounds for A/C, or no effort taken at all like the Gauss. Even dual heat sinks take up only 2 crit slots. The Clan XLs are lighter and far more durable than their IS counterpart.

So, why is the holy trinity so dominate and not much else? Why doesn't the Clans openly kick butt up and down the battlefield?

It's because their chassis are their own worst enemy (specifically locked equip). Locked JJs, Heat sinks, Engine sizes, Endo and Ferro, etc... The clan tech in and of itself is better, but some planners have engines locked at too big of a size, JJs or DHS that prevent certain sized weapons from being equipped, Fero being used instead of Endo, etc...

The holy trinity is good because it had the perfect mix of engine size, open crit slots not being occupied by locked unwanted equip, and Endo (and Ferrous in some occasions). The wrong locked equipment can be the difference between a good mech and a bad mech.

Some already realize this and that is why the IIC mechs terrify them (especially with inflated hard points). I still say we wait to see what balance hits before their release, but still at face value I understand the fear.

So to me, when people say Clans are in good balance, I think that it is close because the existing clan chassis hold the tech often in check. The mechs that don't generally have such heavy locked restrictions (TW and SCR) really show just how better clan tech and weapons are, and therefore were nerfed.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

The problem with the Whale, in the hands of the top 10-20% of the playerbase it's the deadliest mech in the game and has no equal.

But it's such a difficult mech to run that nerfing it any will make it unbearably bad for just about the rest of the playerbase.

So what do you do? Nerf it so the top players aren't demolishing half a team by themselves and ruin it for everyone else? Or leave it as is so the average player can use it and just deal with the top teams mopping up with it?

[CygnusX7]

You fix the matchmaker.

[WonderSparks]

Another one of these threads? Really? I leave for a few weeks and this happens?

Seriously, though, last I checked the builds mentioned in the OP are not as devastating as they are making it sound.
Just need to play smart and not get caught alone by one of these. And besides, they are completely dependant on ammo. (Plus the ones that use class 2 AC's are really not that scary unless you let them unload on you for an uncontrollable amount of time)

[Joseph Mallan]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 07 July 2015 - 10:03 AM, said:

The problem with the Whale, in the hands of the top 10-20% of the playerbase it's the deadliest mech in the game and has no equal.

But it's such a difficult mech to run that nerfing it any will make it unbearably bad for just about the rest of the playerbase.

So what do you do? Nerf it so the top players aren't demolishing half a team by themselves and ruin it for everyone else? Or leave it as is so the average player can use it and just deal with the top teams mopping up with it?

You answered the question as I see it. 10% of the time I'm recked. The Other 90% I can do the recking! Sounds fair!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 07 July 2015 - 10:18 AM.

[Vodrin Thales]

TheCharlatan, on 07 July 2015 - 02:59 AM, said:

Fun fact: these are not the strongest Dire Wolf builds.

I was thinking the same thing. You would never see any of those builds in a competitive match. The LBX2 build he mentioned is flat out weak for a dire.

[Gyrok]

Titannium, on 07 July 2015 - 02:14 AM, said:

these builds:

5/6 UAC5
4 UAC10
6 AC2
6 LBX2

and more, need to be nerfed. Add +30% jamchance for DW equiping with combos above.

LOL! Of those builds...only the 4 UAC10 build was even remotely "OK" before...if you cannot stand the cockpit shake...do not stand in the open, in front of the slowest mech in the game, with the least amount of torso twist, and one of the lowest pitch/yaw rates.

TL;DR: L2P

[Bishop Steiner]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 07 July 2015 - 10:03 AM, said:

The problem with the Whale, in the hands of the top 10-20% of the playerbase it's the deadliest mech in the game and has no equal.

But it's such a difficult mech to run that nerfing it any will make it unbearably bad for just about the rest of the playerbase.

So what do you do? Nerf it so the top players aren't demolishing half a team by themselves and ruin it for everyone else? Or leave it as is so the average player can use it and just deal with the top teams mopping up with it?

Kind of makes it the "anti-meta", hard to master, but about unstoppable once it is.

Since the key to modern gaming meta is a mix of effective vs ease of use.

[Necromantion]

MeiSooHaityu, on 07 July 2015 - 10:01 AM, said:

This is the funny thing (IMO anyway).

Clan weapons and equipment are superior to the IS. They are lighter, often take less crit space, go farther, and hit harder. There is some balancing efforts like longer duration for clan energy or burst rounds for A/C, or no effort taken at all like the Gauss. Even dual heat sinks take up only 2 crit slots. The Clan XLs are lighter and far more durable than their IS counterpart.

So, why is the holy trinity so dominate and not much else? Why doesn't the Clans openly kick butt up and down the battlefield?

It's because their chassis are their own worst enemy (specifically locked equip). Locked JJs, Heat sinks, Engine sizes, Endo and Ferro, etc... The clan tech in and of itself is better, but some planners have engines locked at too big of a size, JJs or DHS that prevent certain sized weapons from being equipped, Fero being used instead of Endo, etc...

The holy trinity is good because it had the perfect mix of engine size, open crit slots not being occupied by locked unwanted equip, and Endo (and Ferrous in some occasions). The wrong locked equipment can be the difference between a good mech and a bad mech.

Some already realize this and that is why the IIC mechs terrify them (especially with inflated hard points). I still say we wait to see what balance hits before their release, but still at face value I understand the fear.

So to me, when people say Clans are in good balance, I think that it is close because the existing clan chassis hold the tech often in check. The mechs that don't generally have such heavy locked restrictions (TW and SCR) really show just how better clan tech and weapons are, and therefore were nerfed.

In a competent players hands IS vs Clans is a very even match. If you take two 12 mans of equally skilled players you will have a very tight match.

It is funny how players who barely play Clans or are solo droppers in the CW queue as fanatic IS loyalists think that Clans are ridiculously OP when really if you have the right IS chassis with the right weapons suited to the quirks you can stand toe to toe or demolish clans with their lower heat scaling.

Also, in regards to the direwolf. It is EXTREMELY vulnerable due to its mobility. I have walked up behind many direwolves in firestarters and alphaed their rear torso and killed them in 2-3 shots.

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 07 July 2015 - 10:03 AM, said:

The problem with the Whale, in the hands of the top 10-20% of the playerbase it's the deadliest mech in the game and has no equal.

But it's such a difficult mech to run that nerfing it any will make it unbearably bad for just about the rest of the playerbase.

So what do you do? Nerf it so the top players aren't demolishing half a team by themselves and ruin it for everyone else? Or leave it as is so the average player can use it and just deal with the top teams mopping up with it?

You have a decent point. Its lack of mobility, horrible turn/yaw/pitch rates and size make it a huge target and extremely vulnerable. I feel the DW is balanced as it is.

[Mcgral18]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 July 2015 - 09:36 AM, said:

really, in clan mechs, that is supposed to impress?

In anything, it's rather mediocre.

In fact, I have a 110 match exactly here:
4 kills, 6 assists, 666 damage


Not impressive on any count. 150 is a much more notable score, but 200 is downright impressive.

Titannium, on 07 July 2015 - 09:38 AM, said:

Firstly, im not here to impress someone, secondly, you offended me (but very politely), if I can play. And thirdly, Im talking about IS heavy/assaults.

His statement stands, 110 isn't that great of a score, especially on a win (which gives you another 20). It can be done with Lights and Mediums, let alone Assaults.



Calling for nerfs on the AC2 Whale is just funny.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mcgral18, on 07 July 2015 - 10:18 AM, said:

In anything, it's rather mediocre.

In fact, I have a 110 match exactly here:
4 kills, 6 assists, 666 damage


Not impressive on any count. 150 is a much more notable score, but 200 is downright impressive.

Exactly. I consider 100 the minimum for a "good" game. Not noteworthy, not great, but feel like I did my part, contributed well. 150 is when I am pretty happy with my performance. anything close to 200, I am delighted.

As a general rule. But I am happier and more impressed with 130 in my HBK-4G than I am with 170 in my TBR.

The fact that I have more 150 plus games in my TBR than anything else, well, still shows what kind of EZmode it is.

[Darlith]

As annoying as dakka whales can be when you walk into one by accident they aren't that frightening. What gets me is the 2 gauss + multiple pulse laser builds that take off my side torso in a single alpha, or turn my CT from pristine to cherry red making me have to spend the rest of a short match nursing it along. I'd much rather have them spamming spreadable shells all over my mech then I probably get away with orange armor, maybe yellow internals at worst.

[MilesTeg1982]

Darlith, on 07 July 2015 - 10:43 AM, said:

As annoying as dakka whales can be when you walk into one by accident they aren't that frightening. What gets me is the 2 gauss + multiple pulse laser builds that take off my side torso in a single alpha, or turn my CT from pristine to cherry red making me have to spend the rest of a short match nursing it along. I'd much rather have them spamming spreadable shells all over my mech then I probably get away with orange armor, maybe yellow internals at worst.

its pretty simple - don't duel with a DWF - the whole purpose of the DWF is firepower - it sacrifices anything else for it - speed and turnrate. It also has pretty bad hitboxes (the sidetorsos are easy to hit (means half your weapons are gone in no time).

therefore - if you attack it frontal - the DWF can play its strength and you end up butthurt. If you want to bring it down use its weakness (speed, turnrate, size) against it.

[no one]

The only advantage the Dire Wolf has is it's ability to stack multiple big guns. Remove instant convergence and Dire Wolves, King Crabs and so on would evaporate from the battlefield.

You know, I think people get weird about some 'Mechs being 'overpowered' because they're graded on the same curve. A really good Commando pilot isn't going to be scoring as high or making as much money as a good Dire pilot, and that's an issue. These 'Mechs aren't meant to be equal. The Commando might even be proportionately more overpowered for it's weight than a Direwolf, but many pilots are only interested their score and gains. Like I love piloting the locust, but I've taken to using a Stormcrow just to make cash.

I think people would tolerate Light 'Mechs being light weights and Heavies being heavy weights if there was some kind of nod to "you killed X tons of enemy with Y tons of 'Mech" in the scoring. Maybe it'd be good to see things like cost / drop weight and repair costs or something. As it is, most lights seem a lot more powerful per ton to me than any Direwolf. More fun, too.

Sorry to ramble.

[Necromantion]

I quit playing my direwolves due to CW, mobility to respond to enemy tactics is wayyyyyyyyyy too important. Defenses on smaller maps they may be somewhat viable in their ability to turret but thats it imo.

[GeistHrafn]

To everyone inB4 K-town, congrats!

Unfortunately, too much mudslinging in here, off we go!