172 replies to this topic

[o0Marduk0o]

Sarlic, on 07 July 2015 - 08:38 AM, said:

What are you smoking man. 'Too big'. Are you serious?

Do you even know the iconic Awesome?

You mean those ancient FASA drawings? Welcome to the future.

[Bishop Steiner]

Carrioncrows, on 07 July 2015 - 10:25 AM, said:

This thread though thoughtful and well constructed is simply a waste of time.

Unless there is a MWO2 it isn't going to happen.

You are talking about a complete redesign every mech weapon designed. These are not re sizing 20 some odd weapons. It's re sizing every weapon per every mech because each mech has it's own weapon slots.

Sorry but the time and money spent to deal with my mechs napoleon complex is far better spent making maps, or CW or hell anything else.

and yet, I got Russ looking into resizing the PPCs on the K2, and now the AWS. The CN9 has had two passes on the RA (not perfect, but better with each).

So while I am under no delusion of seeing everything fixed, if I can get some of the worst offenders looked at, it's a win in my book.

[Bishop Steiner]

And in all fairness, my AWS-8Q isn't abjectly horrible.

Just disappointing to what it could be.

[Wildstreak]

Topic seems premature unless somehow Bishop got early access to the Patch.
Did Grisbane give Bish that bottle of Jack mentioned in the topic where Bish thought about posting K2 pics but may not have?

[Water Bear]

whoa whoa whoa...they added sized missile hardpoints to the Pretty Baby?

...Ya'll have no idea how big that is to a hardcore PB fan.

[Bishop Steiner]

Wildstreak, on 07 July 2015 - 11:00 AM, said:

Topic seems premature unless somehow Bishop got early access to the Patch.
Did Grisbane give Bish that bottle of Jack mentioned in the topic where Bish thought about posting K2 pics but may not have?

Since Sean Lang posted preview literally hours ago? (8 hours before this topic, to be concise) Not too premature. Thanks though.

Water Bear, on 07 July 2015 - 11:01 AM, said:

...Ya'll have no idea how big that is to a hardcore PB fan.

Is that a form of masochism?

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 07 July 2015 - 11:06 AM.

[Rebas Kradd]

As long as threads on PPC sizes get ten pages and posts about new gamemodes barely make it to two, this game will continue to bore.

[August55]

Honestly, it could have been much worse.

Here's waiting for the Stalker now.

[Rampancy]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 July 2015 - 10:57 AM, said:

And in all fairness, my AWS-8Q isn't abjectly horrible.

Just disappointing to what it could be.

The stacked E hardpoints in the torsos look GREAT in-game, imo. Especially the side view. The dead-front view isn't very flattering but the moment you get any sort of angle they look really excellent.

[Nightshade24]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 July 2015 - 07:18 AM, said:

so that they can find a way to ruin them later, too?


Look, the last thing I want to do is push everything into a peektart meta. Some mechs have low hardpoints. Does it make sense? Not really, but then, neither do battlemechs in the first place.

Mecha are awesome because they LOOK awesome, not because they are remotely logical or sensible.

eeeeeh... they are kinda logical... ofc not to the degree of BT but the whole aspect of how armour works in BT (aka angled armour is no longer vital) and the fact there was a technological push to gyroes and mechinised combat... and then a technological apocalypse that basicly leveled the playing field due to tanks and aerospace fighters and jets are not that strong in fire power compared to a mech (equal or less excluding artillery and bombers)

It is quite understandable. It is as possible for the BT universe or our universe in the future to push for mech' combat in the next 20 years till we have functional combat ready mechs as it is likely for us to have hover tanks or a moon base.
Just depends where the funding is...

And now I got the realism of that tech being done to some degree irl, now the reason why: It won't be a direct combat unit. it would be something that can help take things around such, recon/ scouting/ spotting, or in rescue operations... urban combat is probably the best spot for mechs in reality as well, for instance possible peace maintenance in the middle east and such could be realistic roles of a mech in the next 50 years irl.

Now lastly location of the weapons... the reason being? "realism". They couldn't fit that weapon up high randomly. There are quite a few tanks out there that do not have the profile to complement minimal exposure and such as well vehicles who couldn't even use the cover of say a hill or what ever even if there turret is above it...
The awesome is a bit of an old mech and as we look towards the later mechs... (deimos, blood asp, fafnir, etc) all the mechs have pretty high weapons as expected. Kinda mimics irl's tanks from 1920's to 2000's.



Keep in mind, this is assumig that humanity pushes that way as they have interest in it. A lot of things can go fast or well if humanity focuses on it. colonizations of the moon and setting moon bases and cities will only take 10-15 years with the correct funding (aka 1980's NASA grade funding) and things like this happened in the past, look at aviation for eg... in the span of 30 or 40 years.

A plane barely able to fly across a football field with multiple wings and 1 scratch will cause it to fall out of t he sky... is followed up with planes able to go half way around the world with autocannons and guided missiles going faster then the speed of sound to heights so high if you didn't have a pressurized cockpit and O2 masc you would be killed and that's just the spawn of 40 year or so years...



Anyway- realism aside. I do not have that much of an issue with the awesomes ppc's... feared worse. still bigger then MW4's awesome. Wish the arm had more work and what is up with the "missile" like lasers? they are not shiney and glassy... they are solid and yellow.

[Bishop Steiner]

Rebas Kradd, on 07 July 2015 - 11:09 AM, said:

As long as threads on PPC sizes get ten pages and posts about new gamemodes barely make it to two, this game will continue to bore.

maybe the Gamemode authors should learn a thing or two about presentation, and how not to bore people? Just saying. We are in the American Idol generation.

[WatDo]

I agree with Bishop. They BUTCHERED the Awesome.

I loved my cannons. They have been replaced by tiny little laser buttons. PPCs don't even look right in my opinion, they need to be wider and maybe even placed differently.

If by some miracle, someone in PGI sees this; the problem is in the models you have for your weapons. Normalized geometry for weapons is fine. You're just doing it wrong. Big weapons need to be big, small weapons need to be small. They NEED different visuals. Why do my LARGE pulse lasers look like a small laser?

I know it's hard to understand, but if you take a huge weapon on a tiny mech it's GOING to look goofy unless you do it right. Example; if a Commando takes a ppc in its arm, the ppc barrel replaces the hand. No need for a lego box to stick it on. For the Awesome have the default, no weapon arm be a hand like the other side as a starting point. Then apply the correct sized model in the center/correct area depending on hardpoints used. Yes, this would also mean you need different models for different weapons, but you need to do that to begin with if you insist on doing normalized weapon geometry.

Also, if a mech is not using a weapon in it's hand... Don't leave a friggin box there, COPY/PASTE/MIRROR THE OTHER HAND THERE.

These lego boxes need to go. It might work for clam mechs, because they're nothing but lego mechs, but most IS mechs have their weapons built into them. The armor was shaped around the weapons.

[CDLord HHGD]

I am concerned about the missile placement on the Awesome. I liked the lower placement (let me mimick the Thug) and was I trolled or did I see an AWS (Pretty Baby I think) with missiles in the arm pauldron/wing??

[Destoroyah]

PGI seems to not have figured out yet the draw of GOOD MECH PORN. The badly proportioned weapons and generally bad Dynamic weapon placement and imprementation is hurting that. Also now there is the issue of plain black weapon boxes and parts that aren't being camoed ruining the camo effect.

They need to expand on the dynamic weapon visual library some.
For example barrels for lasers for mechs like the maddog and raven arms the tri barrel for some of the ultras instad of the rotary look. Missle bay doors for lrms if the mach had bay doors like the centurion.

Edited by Destoroyah, 07 July 2015 - 11:44 AM.

[Maxx Blue]

I wonder how much of an improvement we would get, for lasers/PPCs/AC's anyway, if we added two models for those weapons: a flush-mount version and an extended or exposed version. Basically, most energy and ballistic weapons in the original art are either flush, or very close to flush, with the body surface, or they stick way out, often as part of an arm. Neither type of harpoint looks 'right' if you add the opposite style of weapon to it, but the way MWO is now all ballistics stick out and all lasers are flush. I think it would go a long way in terms of reducing funky visuals if we had two models for each enery/ballistic that would be used based on whether it needs to be close to flush with the surface or needs to stick out.

That way we wouldn't have Hunchbacks with a couple meters of gauss barrel sticking out and Wolverines with strange tarsier-finger AC barrels. We could also then have Cat K2's with the 'extended' PPC model, or lasers that are more than just a little lense stuck on the stubby arm-nub without having to give the Awesome PPC nipples.

Edited by Maxx Blue, 07 July 2015 - 11:42 AM.

[DaZur]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 July 2015 - 10:57 AM, said:

And in all fairness, my AWS-8Q isn't abjectly horrible.

Just disappointing to what it could be.

Actually... Having seen this up close and personal (I have the exact same config) It's actually quite appealing while still being a little underwhelming.

I'd a say moderate increase of maybe 10% to the mech'areolas would be sufficient enough to arouse even the most persnickety pilot...

[Wildstreak]

Apparently some people like the Cicada changes. They gave the Cicada a nice sized LRM20 on the X-5 seen from the link in the OP of the Cicada topic. I have yet to go in and see my Awesomes or the Centurions either. I note skimming this topic no one mentions the 8R and what happened for its 4 Lanucher possibilities, part of me is cringing.

Bishop Steiner, on 07 July 2015 - 11:20 AM, said:

maybe the Gamemode authors should learn a thing or two about presentation, and how not to bore people? Just saying. We are in the American Idol generation.

I thought we were just like those articles showing from Gen X, a selfish individualism trend that explains many things even in games such as:
- why people demand what they want over what is best for the game and community.
- part of why people do not join teams. (Not the only reason.)
- other stuff.

Maxx Blue, on 07 July 2015 - 11:41 AM, said:

That way we wouldn't have Hunchbacks with a couple meters of gauss barrel sticking out and Wolverines with strange tarsier-finger AC barrels. We could also then have Cat K2's with the 'extended' PPC model, or lasers that are more than just a little lense stuck on the stubby arm-nub without having to give the Awesome PPC nipples.

Hucnhbacks never got their lasers changed, they still have those tiny, tiny tubes even when using Larges.

Edited by Wildstreak, 07 July 2015 - 11:53 AM.

[Hawk819]

I know not about how you guys feel ( I can only read it). As for myself: I love it! About time too.

I can finally see how many missiles or lasers I have in one area of Commando. I'm re-buying my Awesomes: 8Q, 9M, and one other. Can't wait!

[MischiefSC]

Ac5 single shell per shot is a 203mm weapon, thats about 8 inches. Given the insanely short range they have a short barrel almost makes sense.

So what we have is confirmation that realistic doesn't equate to looking cool.

Edited by MischiefSC, 07 July 2015 - 12:07 PM.

[Water Bear]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 July 2015 - 11:05 AM, said:

Is that a form of masochism?

I don't want to sound like I'm arguing that the PB is a good mech, but there is a simple build for it that I've been using that's actually pretty decent and easy to use.

2 large lasers, and (up this point) due to geometry limitations, an LRM 15 in the torso and a 5 in the left arm. Sounds pathetic, but with its massive cool down and range quirks your ranged DPS is actually good. Throw in its heat quirks, and the thing can dole out a lot of punishment before overheating. And it runs at Pretty Baby speeds, which is good for a laugh.

The only thing that's kept me from lowering its massive engine down and adding more LRMs in the left arm is the fact that (again, up to this point) its had just 4 tubes to work with on the left arm.

You can of course use SRMs and go for flanking / splat, but that is a much riskier proposition for any AWS chassis due to barn sized boobies.

Edited by Water Bear, 07 July 2015 - 12:06 PM.