78 replies to this topic

[Longhorn]

Only reason I went with Caris is from Mech4 Vengeance intro movie. Caris was the chick that got smoked by the LRM's.
But ya Cadet works.

I went with temp lower also because it looks like her temp bar is near max and the ***** light is going off on the dash of the pic

Edited by Longhorn, 30 November 2011 - 08:46 PM.

[Gunman5000]

Cool, same topic is getting discussed in the cockpit art assessment thread, was informed that Cadet probably wouldn't be capitalized so it most likely is a name.

BTW, never knew Caris was her name in that vid.

[Longhorn]

Ya he yells her name a few times, then goes suicide Rambo on a full lance. I myself would have went for any available unites. Reform Sigma lance with what I found and then remount an assault on priority targets. All he did was call Central Guard, over and over then went for martyrdom. Fail as command personnel.

[Barantor]

Barantor, on 30 November 2011 - 05:18 PM, said:

Is is just me or does the throttle and stick look similar to this....

http://www.justechn....e6517d83cbce6b6

Maybe a Saitek Mechwarrior set in the future?

Zomb1e, on 30 November 2011 - 06:33 PM, said:

I looked at the throttle control in the picture...then I looked at my Saitek X52...and they look very similar. Anyone else notice that?

Yeah posted about that on page 2 but I think everyone was busy still decoding the pictures lol.

I would love it if it has full support of some of the major joysticks and other accessories like track IR and foot pedals.

[Zomb1e]

Barantor, on 01 December 2011 - 06:21 AM, said:

Yeah posted about that on page 2 but I think everyone was busy still decoding the pictures lol.

I would love it if it has full support of some of the major joysticks and other accessories like track IR and foot pedals.

Oops, my bad. I looked to see if anyone else had already commented on it, guess I missed your post. Track IR would be awesome, especially if we're going to have such a detailed cockpit like this image suggests.

[Brakkyn]

Longhorn, on 01 December 2011 - 01:06 AM, said:

Ya he yells her name a few times, then goes suicide Rambo on a full lance. I myself would have went for any available unites. Reform Sigma lance with what I found and then remount an assault on priority targets. All he did was call Central Guard, over and over then went for martyrdom. Fail as command personnel.

He didn't have many options. LRMs destroyed the 'Mech hangar and everything/everyone in it, leaving just him and the Shadow Cat. She went down, he had no communications with anyone else, and stumbles across a lance plus in the courtyard. He didn't know if the royal family was out yet, so he delayed them as long as he could.

He'd have made it, too, if he didn't get legged...

[cipher]

I can't believe no one has mentioned neurohelmets since this cockpit has a throttle and stick controls.

Didn't anyone ever play Battletech or Mechwarrior? I mean really play the tabletop and role-playing game? Not just sit in front of a watered-down computer game?

Neurohelmets for controlling a mech is the reason why pilots take damage under certain conditions when their mech falls, is hit, etc. It's neuro-feedback. They work in conjunction with the controls.

I think we need to set some things straight if we want to be authentic to Mechwarrior and its father, Battletech. These are the most common misconceptions...

• Neurohelmets. Cockpits have display panels, a few switches and such, but the mechs are mostly controlled by a neurohelmet. It's how the pilot is able to control the limbs of a mech in such a fluid, smooth manner. This is why mechwarriors undergoing training to better adapt themselves to the neurohelmet. This is why neurohelmets are a system that adapts with the mechwarrior. This is why your average joe can't hop into any mech they find and pilot it.
  
• Myomer. Mechs are not driven by a bunch of motors, drive shafts, and gears even though many artists get this wrong in tech drawings that resemble 'blueprints'. They are moved with myomer attached to actuators. Myomer is the technological equivalent of biological muscles, in that they act in a similar fashion. Battletech doesn't have critical hits for regular myomer since it's all over the mech and can still function after it's damaged due to its redundant nature. Actuator hits are different and can seize up or slow down join movements.
  
• Custom mechs. There are very few custom mechs in existence due to the fact that most mechs are produced in factories. It's prohibitively expensive to custom build mechs. The clans, houses, and the mercenaries they hire won't or can't spend the credits for custom built designs. Most of the Mechwarrior universe is comprised of factory built mechs, with a much smaller number that have been upgraded or modified. So far the PC games for Battletech and Mechwarrior have done a good job reflecting this, even if the tabletop gamers among us use far too many custom mechs.

Edited by cipher, 01 December 2011 - 10:12 AM.

[Armageddon]

I am curious about this neurohelmet thing too. Anyone have an answer about this? I'd never heard of them until today.

[ELHImp]

Okay, let somebody post direct quote from any manual or TRO, where says about neurohelmets role. I can't remember anything except equilibration.

[cipher]

ELH_Imp, on 01 December 2011 - 03:12 PM, said:

Okay, let somebody post direct quote from any manual or TRO, where says about neurohelmets role. I can't remember anything except equilibration.

In the original Battletech manual from 1985 it refers to these as a "neuroimpulse helmet". But later it is just called "neurohelmet".

From the first edition "Mechwarrior: The Battletech Role Playing Game" book from 1986, it states:

Quote

The key to piloting a Battlemech is correct use of a neurohelmet, which enhances impulses from the pilot's body to produce the desired action in the 'Mech.

Quote

These packages, usually located at joints, are called actuators. They are extremely sophisticated integrated circuits, processing a high volume of information and instructions to respond to the directions from the pilot's neurohelmet.

Quote

The balance and stability of a 'Mech is based on a sophisticated gyro system that constantly monitors the 'Mech's movements and adjusts the center of balance.

I did not 'make this up', as this is all part of the Battletech and Mechwarrior universe. I can take pictures if anyone likes, since I own all of these originals. But you can also get these manuals online in pdf format, though they're usually scanned in at low quality (not to mention a violation of copyrights). I obviously do not condone that.

[Armageddon]

So, does this mean that according to the original book we shouldn't use controls like the controls from the Facebook concept art? I started with Mechwarrior 2 & I have always assumed Mechs had cockpit controls. So this is news to me.

Edited by Armageddon, 01 December 2011 - 04:06 PM.

[cipher]

Armageddon, on 01 December 2011 - 03:52 PM, said:

So, does this mean that according to the original book we shouldn't use controls like the controls from the Facebook concept art? I started with Mechwarrior 2 & I have always assumed Mechs had cockpit controls. So this is news to me.

There's nothing wrong with controls in the cockpit, and nothing wrong with the concept art. But they are not the primary means by which a Mechwarrior pilots a mech. So it actually makes it easier on the devs because we don't need a detailed level of stick controls that we might think we need.

Remember that the artwork is done by an artist, so even when the original artists worked on Mechwarrior, the art isn't necessarily 100% synced with the rules and the game. But that's ok, because they're given a little bit of creative freedom to make something look good or interesting.

As long as neurohelmets are in MWO (if they show Mechwarriors inside a cockpit), everything is fine. We can have the sticks in conjunction with the helmets. I just wanted to set the record straight now so that the devs and artists can keep this in mind for the future.

[ELHImp]

I'm asking just because year ago or maybe more one big-fan-of-classic-battletech-and-whole-this-canon said: "for equilibration only dot".
And only phrase I can "invent" to excuse all this ruders, controls and joysticks in cockpit: "neurohelmets not ideal, you know". Sometimes it simplier to set throttle to 50% and left all work for on-board computers.

[Armageddon]

It would make more sense to have controls in the cockpit if the helmets were used for equilibrium alone. Since this has always been my assumption I rather like the idea of a functioning cockpit with controls & displays. I am just curious now about the original source material.

[cipher]

ELH_Imp, on 01 December 2011 - 03:59 PM, said:

I'm asking just because year ago or maybe more one big-fan-of-classic-battletech-and-whole-this-canon said: "for equilibration only dot".
And only phrase I can "invent" to excuse all this ruders, controls and joysticks in cockpit: "neurohelmets not ideal, you know". Sometimes it simplier to set throttle to 50% and left all work for on-board computers.

Yup. Now you can tell people like that what we can read from the original manuals.

They have throttles, sticks, switches, and panels all over the cockpits of mechs in the artwork. But the funny thing is, they never talk about that in the rule books. They only talk about neurohelmets. So one can embrace both the rules and the artwork to meet somewhere in-between in that neurohelmets are the primary control for a mech, but they work in conjunction with the manual controls. throttle, stick, etc.

[ELHImp]

Quote

It would make more sense to have controls in the cockpit if the helmets were used for equilibrium alone. Since this has always been my assumption I rather like the idea of a functioning cockpit with controls & displays. I am just curious now about the original source material.

From original sources I can remember grand-titan cockpit with a lot of buttons, throttle control, two joysticks (one for each mech "arm"), two pedals for turning right/left (in some books there three, one more for jump jets) even a big box for personal stuff, hanger for unnecessary clothes (yeah you don't need furcoat in hell-heated cocpit) and hinged toilet for really long missions.

Edited by ELH_Imp, 01 December 2011 - 04:15 PM.

[Volume]

Um.

I played Mechwarrior 2 and Mechwarrior 2: Mercs, and I have the original game manuals for them both. I have never seen nor touched a copy of the tabletop, but both of them talk about Neurohelmets extensively.

Ironically, the computer games don't really reflect this well. While they truly display these 'mechs as walking tanks, the books I've read and even the Mechwarrior 2:Mercs intro both show much more athletic movement possible from our beloved battlemechs. I don't want a gundam robotech jumpjetting everywhere lightning speed front mission skating game, but it would make sense to have knockdowns, melee combat, and gyro effects.

Edited by Volume, 01 December 2011 - 04:25 PM.

[wanderer]

Pssh. Mechs are not magically controlled simply through strapping a helmet on.

What a neurohelmet does is a few things. It provides something for the 'Mech to properly help keep itself balanced when shocked- interacting with the gyro. The neural impulses are also nice combined with the DI computer system assisting in 'Mechs to do fine work- like carefully picking up a human being without crushing them. In many ways, it gives the 'Mech a "feedback" response system that lets the Mechwarrior operate a 'Mech much more smoothly and naturally. Without it, 'Mechs are clumsy and have far less ability to deal with anything save routine movement and the like- you can walk a 'Mech without a neurohelmet, but I wouldn't run one and the heck with actually getting one off the ground in a jump. The neurohelmet basically lets the 'Mechs "reaction time" improve dramatically for motion and balance.

Of course, the drawback is really heavy-duty shocks like ammo explosions can "shove" feedback through the neurohelmet and cause pilot damage. There's fancier technology that can deflect or even remove this, but they usually have their own drawbacks in turn. Like making the pilot a drug-addict or cyborg with issues.

Edit note: There's even been systems that take the neurohelmet feedback system to unheard levels of gracefulness...but the price was the pilot was actually sensitive to the 'Mech taking damage and would rapidly go cripsy from the feedback effects.

Edited by wanderer, 01 December 2011 - 04:46 PM.

[wanderer]

There's plenty for a 'Mech pilot to do besides provide said neurohelmet work, which is why all those OTHER controls are in there. 'Mech pilots are normally using both hands and both feet the whole time. Luckily given the frequent heat levels, they get to do it all sitting down.

There's a stick for the weapons system, a throttle for speed, and foot pedals that often serve various purposes, jump jet controls included.

So the MWO cockpit's pretty on board. There's a lot of doodads in there!