126 replies to this topic

[Vandril]

Commissar Aku, on 12 July 2015 - 09:04 AM, said:

This is why I hate fighting IS contracts anymore, it is always someone else fault that you are a lazy incompetent fool. I am pretty sure this whole tread was supposed to organize a defense and discover why your numbers were so low. Liao did amazingly bad in the last tournament, the FLH would have gotten 3rd in Liao instead of 56th in Jade Falcon. I am only here to give comment on making the IS worth being mercenaries for, so mine is just an opinion. But, if you want to get any damn thing done you need to stop fighting each other about semantics and who has the bigger pud and just actually play a **** load of CW matches, both as House Liao and as the IS, defend those borders, kill those clans. Once you have numbers playing every day then you can set up attacks on Davion and Marik but from what I can tell they play even less than you. After you can bring the weight of Liao to the field maybe you can go over to Davions TS and other fun places and get them to actually play CW too. This no one attacking BS needs to stop and this no one defending against the clans aside from your weekly merc units also really needs to stop. Loyalty units have an advantage of being able to defend against the same loyalist units, making new tactics all in their court, they have the numbers to set the pace of battles and the man power to change it as needed. From what I can tell that is not what is happening merc units are setting the pace and skill of battles, layalists hide behind their high walls and sacrifice their paid warriors to the clans, that has backfired and they all got tired of not being reinforced and now fight for the side that not only pays better, but reinforces their troops, dictates the pace of battle, and comes up with ever varying tactics to defeat the IS.

You misunderstand the problem. PGI has made it so pointless to go to the Clan front for us. Davions will sometimes show up but after we kick their teeth in, they leave for another front. From a NA perspective, Davion loyalists and Liao loyalists CW on different days which further restricts it, leaving our pugs or smaller units available but with little coordination on the off days.

Fighting the clans doesn't benefit the CW effort for Liao at all.

Taking the battle to Marik means nothing either as they have a small population already AND three additional fronts. So what? Ghost drop on Marik space as well as Davion space? Pointless. MAYBE if Marik space got us to the Clan front but in PGI's infinite wisdom we are attacking FURTHER south. In addition the ghost drop defenses has actually punished smaller units because it takes nearly a full cycle to ghost drop a planet successfully with only one company. And do we really want to get two or three companies of people together just to ghost drop worlds? As Stoneblade said people go where the action is and if we are going to fight pointless battles might as well do it in the pub queue.

You see the death spiral issue here yet? We don't have the population to get the population that is needed to make the fights away from the Clans. At this rate we just have to wait a week and the clans will be here.

Also, Liao did just fine. Take a look at the numbers and you will see that there are easily twice as many Clan players as IS. It was our population that held us back, not our ability.

[BSK]

Vandril, on 12 July 2015 - 09:13 AM, said:

Along with many others, I doubt that attacking Marik will solve this issue. Speaking with friends in Marik last night further reinforced this due to their population issue.

Omg there is the solution right in front of you and you don't see it? Start playing against each other. Just start one night together fighting on a planet. You meet with Marik on a Liao planet, next week you meet on a Marik planet. Once people see there is a regular battle, they will come regularly. When units start having planets or a unit they compete with conquered a planet you fought on, more people will be motivated and see how many you make.

And if people are fed up with fighting against Clan 'mechs laser vomit, or think they are too imbalanced, then tell them to join the Liao-Marik war of balance with IS vs IS battles!

[Wolf Clearwater]

Nobody said that having CW skirmishes between Liao and Marik meant you have to flip out on each other.

BSK, on 12 July 2015 - 09:38 AM, said:

Omg there is the solution right in front of you and you don't see it? Start playing against each other. Just start one night together fighting on a planet. You meet with Marik on a Liao planet, next week you meet on a Marik planet. Once people see there is a regular battle, they will come regularly. When units start having planets or a unit they compete with conquered a planet you fought on, more people will be motivated and see how many you make.

And if people are fed up with fighting against Clan 'mechs laser vomit, or think they are too imbalanced, then tell them to join the Liao-Marik war of balance with IS vs IS battles!

This.
you could even trade daily, or twice weekly or whatever works for your factions.

[Commissar Aku]

Vandril, on 12 July 2015 - 09:25 AM, said:

You misunderstand the problem. PGI has made it so pointless to go to the Clan front for us. Davions will sometimes show up but after we kick their teeth in, they leave for another front. From a NA perspective, Davion loyalists and Liao loyalists CW on different days which further restricts it, leaving our pugs or smaller units available but with little coordination on the off days.

Fighting the clans doesn't benefit the CW effort for Liao at all.

Taking the battle to Marik means nothing either as they have a small population already AND three additional fronts. So what? Ghost drop on Marik space as well as Davion space? Pointless. MAYBE if Marik space got us to the Clan front but in PGI's infinite wisdom we are attacking FURTHER south. In addition the ghost drop defenses has actually punished smaller units because it takes nearly a full cycle to ghost drop a planet successfully with only one company. And do we really want to get two or three companies of people together just to ghost drop worlds? As Stoneblade said people go where the action is and if we are going to fight pointless battles might as well do it in the pub queue.

You see the death spiral issue here yet? We don't have the population to get the population that is needed to make the fights away from the Clans. At this rate we just have to wait a week and the clans will be here.

Also, Liao did just fine. Take a look at the numbers and you will see that there are easily twice as many Clan players as IS. It was our population that held us back, not our ability.

So let me get this right, you don't play CW because you have little to no experience fighting the clans since the balance. So your plan to fix this issue is to not play? We here at the FLH have beaten the clans as many times as they have beaten us, the fight is not impossible just hard. For the record the FLH had 17 members and would have gotten 3rd place if we had played for Liao. Your excuse would have been vaidated if we would have gotten 28th place or even 10th place, but not 3rd.

Wolf Clearwater, on 12 July 2015 - 09:41 AM, said:

Nobody said that having CW skirmishes between Liao and Marik meant you have to flip out on each other.

you could even trade daily, or twice weekly or whatever works for your factions.

Listen to Wolf Clearwater he has it down, when the FLH is playing against other factions and can't get matches we set them up we go to CommStar or the 228's TS and set up a match with them, presence on the battle field, experience for new members, work on CW tactics and above all else have warm bodies on the field which tend to inspire more warm bodies on the field. All of this not playing BS has to end right now, or there will be no way to stop the clans, get IS pilots to fight in the IS or to have a meaningful time in CW. It is attitudes like yours Vandril that are ruining the game for everyone.

Edited by Commissar Aku, 12 July 2015 - 10:06 AM.

[Gorgo7]

Really? What is your Unit again? Didn't see them in the last challenge.
We got our points against Clans exclusively. Where were you again?
Oh that's right! Having 228 carry you.
GGclose.

Edited by Gorgo7, 12 July 2015 - 10:11 AM.

[Commissar Aku]

Gorgo7, on 12 July 2015 - 10:06 AM, said:

Really? What is your Unit again? Didn't see them in the last challenge.
We got our points against Clans exclusively. Where were you again?
Oh that's right! Having 228 carry you.
GGclose.

Funny you should say something because we saw TCAF and HLGK but as I said in an earlier post I have never once seen a team of even 2 of 4TCR EVER in CW.

So wait now you are mad at the FLH because instead of getting angry and quitting CW we went out and got help? This is why you guys are failing, we are all having problems, so instead of using the vast amount resources you have to get help, you cry, blame everyone else and quit. I have offered you my units help, and the the help of some of the biggest most powerful units in MWO, and all I have gotten is it is to hard to be Liao. You sir and the entire 4TCR should be ban from all leadership in MWO, especially this forum because you are not helping, you are just reinforcing the stereotype, and it that stereotype that keeps players from joining Davion, Marik and Liao. If you want something to change you have to let it instead of bickering about how it is everyone's fault but yours.

Edited by Commissar Aku, 12 July 2015 - 11:30 AM.

[Stoneblade]

Commisar Aku, Gorgo7: Please refrain from personal or Unit attacks on this tread. You are both PROUD OF YOU UNITS!! OK, so I think we can all agree that MERC units help CW, but as Liao we need to get fights on our borders so Merc units show up. I don't care if the Merc unit is Davion for 2 weeks: did they show up to fight? Yes!! Then be cool with that, NO?!?! Then don't be cool with that.

Does anyone know of a central place to post where Merc unit leaders can see, and then set up to defend/attack planets.
I know [BSK] and [FLH] have both mentioned using TS to track down mercs and find them. Is anyone on this forum in contact with the Mercs, maybe have them somehow show their Contract Faction in the TS that they are in? That would help Loaylist units when they go to get CW matches.

Thoughts on this?



edit: Posted was typing when Commissar replied

Edited by Stoneblade, 12 July 2015 - 11:36 AM.

[Commissar Aku]

Why do you think I troll you guys so hard in game? It drums up enemies with a grudge and works better than being nice does. Other places are look at the other factions MWO threads, we run into as many people just by playing and calling them out in game. TS works good too, the recruitment forums tend to have TS information either on their site or just on the MWO forum. If nothing else use it to set up games in CW doesn't matter as long as it is bodies on the field because it draws mercs.

Gate Keepers are more than welcome to come over to the FLH and play with us anytime. You guys are fun to play with, even if you suck like Liao. I am sure we could mount a good game or 2 and even draw up an opponent if we have to. An advantage of having friend in different factions to carry us.

[Gorgo7]

Commissar Aku, on 12 July 2015 - 11:29 AM, said:

Funny you should say something because we saw TCAF and HLGK but as I said in an earlier post I have never once seen a team of even 2 of 4TCR EVER in CW.

So wait now you are mad at the FLH because instead of getting angry and quitting CW we went out and got help? This is why you guys are failing, we are all having problems, so instead of using the vast amount resources you have to get help, you cry, blame everyone else and quit. I have offered you my units help, and the the help of some of the biggest most powerful units in MWO, and all I have gotten is it is to hard to be Liao. You sir and the entire 4TCR should be ban from all leadership in MWO, especially this forum because you are not helping, you are just reinforcing the stereotype, and it that stereotype that keeps players from joining Davion, Marik and Liao. If you want something to change you have to let it instead of bickering about how it is everyone's fault but yours.

So...I for one would be more than willing to attend a planned fight against Marik or Davion.
Let us know the details here on this topic and i will happily attend! What was your TS again?

Cheers,

Gorgo7

Edited by Gorgo7, 12 July 2015 - 02:38 PM.

[Timicon]

Gorgo7, on 12 July 2015 - 02:36 PM, said:

So...I for one would be more than willing to attend a planned fight against Marik or Davion.
Let us know the details here on this topic and i will happily attend! What was your TS again?

Cheers,

Gorgo7

I will stick solely with the war against the Davions; Marik has done nothing to me and I feel no hostility toward them whatsoever. Personally speaking, I would rather think that Liao and Marik should ally themselves against the Davions and push hard and long right into their territory, splitting up the planets as we go.
For all good things come to the Davions.

[Timicon]

Update: The planet Sarna has been taken by the Davions, I am sure none of you want to see the first interstellar planet of our nation in the hands of such low lifes so we must answer the call to battle and retake a vital piece of our national heritage!

ed: grammar

Edited by Leif Tanner, 12 July 2015 - 07:12 PM.

[Vandril]

Commissar Aku, on 12 July 2015 - 09:58 AM, said:

So let me get this right, you don't play CW because you have little to no experience fighting the clans since the balance. So your plan to fix this issue is to not play? We here at the FLH have beaten the clans as many times as they have beaten us, the fight is not impossible just hard. For the record the FLH had 17 members and would have gotten 3rd place if we had played for Liao. Your excuse would have been vaidated if we would have gotten 28th place or even 10th place, but not 3rd.


Listen to Wolf Clearwater he has it down, when the FLH is playing against other factions and can't get matches we set them up we go to CommStar or the 228's TS and set up a match with them, presence on the battle field, experience for new members, work on CW tactics and above all else have warm bodies on the field which tend to inspire more warm bodies on the field. All of this not playing BS has to end right now, or there will be no way to stop the clans, get IS pilots to fight in the IS or to have a meaningful time in CW. It is attitudes like yours Vandril that are ruining the game for everyone.

You mistake not caring about fighting the clans with giving up on fighting them. CW should mean something and defending worlds that mean nothing isn't really that fun. We would much rather beat the Davions but they are not there in force or run. My attitude is hardly ruining the game as I am looking for logical and rational ways to drum up CW action for Liao players that doesn't screw up the work we have done diplomatically for when this gets out of Beta. Being a merc you obviously don't understand it from a loyalist point of view and that is fine.

Commissar Aku, on 12 July 2015 - 11:29 AM, said:

Funny you should say something because we saw TCAF and HLGK but as I said in an earlier post I have never once seen a team of even 2 of 4TCR EVER in CW.

So wait now you are mad at the FLH because instead of getting angry and quitting CW we went out and got help? This is why you guys are failing, we are all having problems, so instead of using the vast amount resources you have to get help, you cry, blame everyone else and quit. I have offered you my units help, and the the help of some of the biggest most powerful units in MWO, and all I have gotten is it is to hard to be Liao. You sir and the entire 4TCR should be ban from all leadership in MWO, especially this forum because you are not helping, you are just reinforcing the stereotype, and it that stereotype that keeps players from joining Davion, Marik and Liao. If you want something to change you have to let it instead of bickering about how it is everyone's fault but yours.

So your lack of personal experience with us in CW means we don't play CW? That is a very narrow and completely incorrect view. I didn't get to rank 17 in Liao by ghost dropping. There are several in our unit that are even higher ranked in Liao. Oh yeah and 4TCR was 4th for Liao in the Hardcore Unit tourney, so please move on with points that matter.

What "help" have you actually offered other than 'Pay us and we'll come over here maybe'? If you think that FLH is the only route to players in "bigger and more elite" units then you are severely mistaken.

What you have continued to miss is that there is no more reason for Marik to fight with Liao than there is for Davion to fight with Liao at this point. Marik is close to having four additional fronts with a very small population of CW, adding another front doesn't make a ton of sense from their point of view. Marik could scrim with us but that would take a company away from a battle that is taking one of their planets. Should they do that so Liao can get more fights? Davion has other fronts and they can choke us out by just ignoring us because they have other fronts to go to as well.

I am not saying it is hard for Liao, what I am saying is we have little to no options to make either side WANT to come to our fights. At this point it is better to wait a week and Clan Wolf will be at our doorstep.

[Vandril]

Stoneblade, on 12 July 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

Commisar Aku, Gorgo7: Please refrain from personal or Unit attacks on this tread. You are both PROUD OF YOU UNITS!! OK, so I think we can all agree that MERC units help CW, but as Liao we need to get fights on our borders so Merc units show up. I don't care if the Merc unit is Davion for 2 weeks: did they show up to fight? Yes!! Then be cool with that, NO?!?! Then don't be cool with that.

Does anyone know of a central place to post where Merc unit leaders can see, and then set up to defend/attack planets.
I know [BSK] and [FLH] have both mentioned using TS to track down mercs and find them. Is anyone on this forum in contact with the Mercs, maybe have them somehow show their Contract Faction in the TS that they are in? That would help Loaylist units when they go to get CW matches.

Thoughts on this?



edit: Posted was typing when Commissar replied

It would be nice if there was a central place to contact mercs in this case but it seems that the only option available is to pop into TS after TS. The main problem with that is figuring out which unit is Davion/Marik then since that information is not readily available. Unless there is some merc forum that states unit X is on contract with Y until Z date that has not been mentioned.

[Vandril]

Wolf Clearwater, on 12 July 2015 - 09:41 AM, said:

Nobody said that having CW skirmishes between Liao and Marik meant you have to flip out on each other.

This.
you could even trade daily, or twice weekly or whatever works for your factions.

Nice in theory but the Marik guys are getting eaten by the clans right now. They could skirmish with us or even flip planets, while they are getting destroyed from the North. As I mentioned before, if the planets we were fighting for were heading towards the Clans there would be much more interest in doing so. This is a pure population problem that has been in a death spiral since the announcement of Beta 2.

[Commissar Aku]

So it seems that Vandril is only here to piss in everyone's Cheerios. I am not sure why he is trying to make House Liao sound like a bunch of Davions, we aren't going to play in CW because no one will play with us, and even if we had an opponent we are just going to be forum warriors instead of fighting in CW. I bet if you actually tried any of the ideas presented to you instead of immediately calling them out as bad you might have more fun playing and maybe get some new players in your ranks, or do you want the IS to fail? Are you secretly here to help the clans strike deeper into IS territory? I think Vandril is a traitor in your ranks, I recommend you take care of him and his yilk because all he is doing is poisoning you.

[Heart of Storm]

This topic has gone some wierd places, we all seem to be angry at eachother for the fact our CW sucks.

Way i see it is our enemies are A) Davion, Davion, C) Clans.

My personal view is every Liao loyalist must fight Davions wherever possible, if the Davions arent fighting (Davions only seem to like fighting turrets) then we go help Marik with their clan front, if the CW rando-battle allocator won't allow us to help Marik then we drop on any other clan front.

But first priority is always the sub-liberate Davion apes and their St. Ives traitor stooges

[Stoneblade]

Heart of Storm, on 13 July 2015 - 07:25 AM, said:

This topic has gone some wierd places, we all seem to be angry at eachother for the fact our CW sucks.

Way i see it is our enemies are A) Davion, Davion, C) Clans.

My personal view is every Liao loyalist must fight Davions wherever possible, if the Davions arent fighting (Davions only seem to like fighting turrets) then we go help Marik with their clan front, if the CW rando-battle allocator won't allow us to help Marik then we drop on any other clan front.

But first priority is always the sub-liberate Davion apes and their St. Ives traitor stooges

I see your point, but this is about a War of Balance. The Marik/Liao truce works in Lore, but the way PGI has this game set up is screws our players abilities to play CW in a balanced way.

[Commissar Aku]

Stoneblade, on 13 July 2015 - 07:32 AM, said:

I see your point, but this is about a War of Balance. The Marik/Liao truce works in Lore, but the way PGI has this game set up is screws our players abilities to play CW in a balanced way.

But seriously StaoneBlade we should work on getting a FLH/HLGK group going, you guys tend to be fun to play with and had enough balls to call me out, that is better than any other Liao unit thus far. I figure we should try and get 12 of us on at once and then just use the numbers to stomp around the IS and clans for a while. We should be Liao for another week or so, before we head back to the clans. Maybe after we can have that duel you didn't show up to.

[Heart of Storm]

Stoneblade, on 13 July 2015 - 07:32 AM, said:

I see your point, but this is about a War of Balance. The Marik/Liao truce works in Lore, but the way PGI has this game set up is screws our players abilities to play CW in a balanced way.

Understood, but the Mariks have their hands full with Clan Wolf and (very soon) Clan Jade Falcon, I just don't see them as numerous enough to be able to handle us as well... we're better served helping them vs the Clans...

[ccrider]

There are plenty of cw matches out there; just gotta be OK fighting clans. That's what I do everyday. We have 4 frobts, but the reality is really 1.5 fronts depending on Liao activity. I haven't seen a kurita or marik fight in over a month. So many cw players have gone over to the clan side that if you are an IS loyalist you're fighting clans or solo queue dropping. I've said it a dozen times but I'll repeat it here; if you can get 12 on a weekend during euro cycle, I can get 12 and we can get a few battles in. My work schedule is primarily nights so I rarely get to join in during the na cycle.