158 replies to this topic

[ice trey]

You know... I really don't know.

While yes, the canon does have Concrete as being a slippery surface for 'mechs (What makes for a smooth ride for a half-story tall car makes for Ice-Capades for a four-story tall Bipedal behemoth), I know that this game is also shrugging off the fluff-side of the canon, where urban combat is rare, because the Ares Conventions have clauses that make armies avoid fighting in cities and other non-militarized areas. Yet, in MWO, we've been told that there is going to be a lot of focus on urban combat.

If we're to be expecting that most maps are going to involve urban sprawl, then it'd be a bit silly to make every map a deathtrap to any 'mech that wants to kick it into high gear.

I'd be 100% for it if I knew there would be more map balance, even if that means that every map has some urban areas broken up by large forests or rolling plains, but if it's going to be all-city-all-the-time, then it'd just be wiser to house-rule the concrete Piloting checks out.

[ChaosTicket]

Urban combat is to be expected. The Urban-mech and its clan version, and various weapons such as the flamer, machinegun, and AC-20 are made for close range urban combat.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

I think it depends how they're going to implement turning in the game. The smaller the mech the tighter it should turn at speed. Conversely a fast heavier mech should not be able to turn as tightly. I think it makes snse that you should have to slow to make a right angled turn at an intersection, depending on road width. Given posible detection problems I'm not sure that you would want to run round corners too fast in towns - come to Mama Hunchie little locust

[Thoman Coston2]

No, don't tell me that they can't even build a mech that can walk in a stable manner without slipping on roads in 31st century!
Bipedal Mech is supposed to simulate human, we don't slip when walking on the road do we

[Dlardrageth]

Thoman Coston, on 30 November 2011 - 10:48 PM, said:

No, don't tell me that they can't even build a mech that can walk in a stable manner without slipping on roads in 31st century!
Bipedal Mech is supposed to simulate human, we don't slip when walking on the road do we

Walk != run. To my knoweledge noone even suggested a given mech shopuld skid/slip while going at leisurely patrol pace. Yeesh, why do I get the impression most/half the people already don't get the point of the rule/mechanics in question again? It is the same as a friggin' tank in real life. No, a tank going at 10 kph isn't likely to skid. One going 60 kph much more so.

So if this would become a game mechanic, your light Mech going at 20 or 30 kph won't be affected, if it goes 110+ kph though and you think you can run slalom without consequences, well, say hello to skidding into the next building and eventually even throught it. And no, I really don't think many light Mech pilots use super glue to counter that, not even hardcore munchkins.

Edited by Dlardrageth, 30 November 2011 - 11:57 PM.

[Xhaleon]

Proposal: Mechs without hands cannot catch themselves from a slide nearly as easily as those with hands, especially when it comes to bracing for impact against a building.

[Karyudo ds]

Dlardrageth, on 30 November 2011 - 11:07 PM, said:

So if this would become a game mechanic, your light Mech going at 20 or 30 kph won't be affected, if it goes 110+ kph though and you think you can run slalom without consequences, well, say hello to skidding into the next building and eventually even throught it. And no, I really don't think many light Mech pilots use super glue to counter that, not even hardcore munchkins.

Actually you would most likely topple over like an SUV trying to do the same thing from being top heavy. That's why I don't get why the mech would really skid to begin with.

Xhaleon, on 30 November 2011 - 11:14 PM, said:

Proposal: Mechs without hands cannot catch themselves from a slide nearly as easily as those with hands, especially when it comes to bracing for impact against a building.

I do like this though, hands should do something, anything but at least something.

[Commando DS]

I believe there should be some slippage when a small mech is turning at high speed because, if physics thought me anything, a thing that massive moving at that speed will and can over come the friction coefficient of the road and thus slip. And after doing a little bit of math and research a Jenner traveling around a 61 meter curve would have a friction coefficient of .77 while steel and concrete has a friction coefficient of .45. This means that a Jenner moving at 100 km/h will slide around the corner unless the FC is greater than .77. If a Jenner wants to make it around the same bend without slipping than it must move 15.8 km/h. Also if you think that the road will break they do not have normal concrete in the battletech universes, they have ferro-concrete which is very much stronger than normal concrete... sorry for all the numbers...

[Dlardrageth]

Could be a good use for hands, after all, physical combat seems not to be planned early on, and thus one of the advantages of having hands at all might be gone. (Obviously a Mech with hands instead of just a gun mount protruding from his arm would not damage said gun with a physical punching attack by using a hand instead.)

[PsihoKekec]

This would be also good use for pilot leveling, pilots with high pilot skill would have better chance of making 90 degree turn at high speed without crashing into building.

[Major Crash]

Only running Mech's making facing changes are subject to Piloting Skill rolls in the TT, you run straight, no problem. Should you decide to turn, there is a real chance that the feet will turn, but your 60t/100kph upper mass won't follow. You can easily skid a modern tracked 60t M1A1 going only 40mph on most any paved road, thats with grip tracks on and a very low center of gravity relative to a Mech.. A couple of steel feet bottoms replacing tracks would certainly increase the skid distance considerably.
Between the Pilot Skill and the onboard computers, these turns are mostly succesfull, (TT you need to roll what..a 4 on two 6D to make it), but there is that small bit of a chance to do a big ol' face plant right in front of God and evertyone.
It should be in the game, your not driving a Volkswagon.

[EDMW CSN]

Sliding around with Phoenix Hawks guns a blazing...... Hmm

[Agasutin]

Dlardrageth, on 30 November 2011 - 11:07 PM, said:

It is the same as a friggin' tank in real life.

Just a few simple observations...
A tank has rotating treads...
A Mech is bi-pedal...
Tank != Mech

Call me crazy.

[MaddMaxx]

Here is roughly how it should/would work (numbers are arbitrary of course). Leave it to the Pilot to know his machine.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 01 December 2011 - 10:18 AM.

[Agasutin]

But those aren't 90 degree turns! Isn't that the point?! I demand you fix those errors!

[King Curt]

Slippery when wet, you dig? Canon or not, sure looks as if mech feet have a bit of tread. And really, how the hell could you be in parades!? How the hell would you even walk one out of the factory, dirt floors? Since I can't answer the poll as d) It depends on other conditions, there you go. Rain, slick. Snow, slicker. Ice, forget about it Nancy Carrigan.

[Agasutin]

King Curt, on 01 December 2011 - 10:37 AM, said:

Slippery when wet, you dig? Canon or not, sure looks as if mech feet have a bit of tread. And really, how the hell could you be in parades!? How the hell would you even walk one out of the factory, dirt floors? Since I can't answer the poll as d) It depends on other conditions, there you go. Rain, slick. Snow, slicker. Ice, forget about it Nancy Carrigan.

Lay it on em jack! Got some solid thoughts cool cat King Curt.

[REDSLATE]

King Curt, on 01 December 2011 - 10:37 AM, said:

Slippery when wet, you dig? Canon or not, sure looks as if mech feet have a bit of tread. And really, how the hell could you be in parades!? How the hell would you even walk one out of the factory, dirt floors? Since I can't answer the poll as d) It depends on other conditions, there you go. Rain, slick. Snow, slicker. Ice, forget about it Nancy Carrigan.

Really?

There's a difference between running and walking. A 'Mech can walk on a road perfectly fine. It begins to face penalties while running. A 'Mech can't run at full speed and safely pull a tight turn. This can also be said for cars. Go into a tight turn at 35 m/h and you'll slide a bit. Even more so at higher speeds. At a certain point, the vehicle will have so much forward momentum that when it goes into the turn it slides off the road completely.

(Don't know where all those "color" tags came from? They're now removed...)

Edited by REDSLATE, 01 December 2011 - 10:56 AM.

[HardDrive]

Dlardrageth, on 30 November 2011 - 11:07 PM, said:

It is the same as a friggin' tank in real life.

I am going to argue this simply due to the fact that a tank with its tracks are in constant contact with the ground, while a mech "walks" meaning with each step it has a large impact as it makes contact with the ground, 50 to a 100 ton impact at that. The weight of these things alone would make out the ability to loose traction and slip. now falling over I can being a bit more realistic as you have a center of gravity shifting when turning at velocity.

[MaddMaxx]

Agasutin, on 01 December 2011 - 10:32 AM, said:

But those aren't 90 degree turns! Isn't that the point?! I demand you fix those errors!

FIX = Rotate torso to 90 (in direction of turn) then when at the apex of intersection, hit the SpaceBar. Wheee!!!