158 replies to this topic

[Hunter McGee]

This thread is actually fun... I applaud all of you for the sheer veracity of the postings!

For the cannon folks, and those that do not know... Please remember the Neurohelmet. That provided feedback directly from the pilot to the machine, giving real time minor adjustments to the balance of the Mech. Hence your balance corrections and the Mech not falling over. All Battlemechs have an internal gyroscope which is tied directly to the neurohelmet worn by the pilot, which in turn gets feedback from the human inner ear, which is where you get your balance from, so your mech is an extension of sorts to your own body... sort of.

For the hard science folks, please pay attention to the difference between Concrete and Ferrocrete. Ferrocrete is a creation of the original game designers which was strong enough, and durable to withstand the blast engines of a dropship. Concrete could never have done that. So therefore, your mech does not crush it, or sink in it. Except in a few of the poorer visual drawings in some of the Technical readouts back in the old days. (Artists Interpretation I guess.) Where a Mech was leaving footprints on pavement, but not even sinking at all in the grass.

Like I said previously, it is fun to think about sliding, but I doubt it COULD be incorporated.

I guess we'll all have to wait and see how this pans out.

[VYCanis]

We don't need full blown slip and falls for every time your mech is skidding.

Just make it so that the amount of firepower required to knock a mech over is reduced while you are skidding.

Cause frankly, i want to powerslide my mech intentionally, sounds like fun. I can kinda imagine a mech running up to a hard corner, leaning into the turn, both legs locked, one bent, the other extended, and sliding with its momentum before resuming a normal run.

hell i'd love to do this on other terrains.

we need an e-brake

Edited by VYCanis, 02 December 2011 - 02:48 PM.

[Franklen Mattlov]

I think semi-controlled sliding would be fun addition to the game. I see for fun mini cut-scenes that you watch from a third-person perspective on the chance you fall. The time you are out of control of your mech while you watch the mini cut-scene would be an interesting penalty, along with possibly falling-damage?

Edited by Franklen Mattlov, 08 December 2011 - 02:31 PM.

[Tombstoner]

ChaosTicket, on 30 November 2011 - 08:45 PM, said:

Ok this doesnt make sense. Mechs can be effective on various terrain, so why would very solid materials be "slippery" for them?

Solid materials wouldnt cause traction problems, so any form of asphalt/concrete/ferrorcete is an unexplained weakness. If the materials were in ruins they might for mechs too small to just crush the material.

It has to do with the materials friction coefficient. that why we use rubber with varying amount of cross linking and additives for optimizing traction under different driving conditions. hot dry vs cold wet
how much traction do you think smooth metal on smooth stone is going to produce. the surface texture has a lot to do with it.
roads and sidewalks are supposed to be deliberately smooth. modern tanks have two tred types one all terain the other modified to reduce traction because they will tear up the road.
if modern tanks drift so should mechs

Edited by Tombstoner, 08 December 2011 - 03:27 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

So.. 100-ton Assault Mechs don't leave footprints or divots in streets? Then why are concrete buildings so darn fragile?



I think we have a discrepancy here...

[TwitchTv Morkani]

I 100% need the chance of falling down/skidding to be a part of MWO please. weither it be on an icy surface or urban combat on concrete. Don't tell me you've never taken a mech that was out of ammo, or couldn't fire for another reason, & charged a heavy making a turn at the last minute hoping to fall down and skid and do charging damage all to your enemies legs?

The main counter to my locust in urban combat when i tried to get backshots was running and turning, then skidding into a building, it always made for hilarious moments.

+1 for skidding, and PSR (or however you want to do the checks)

[FACEman Peck]

I thought this topic died a WHILE ago, but anyways...

It doesn't matter WHAT surface a 'Mech is walking on, several tons of guns, bullets, and armor focused on two relatively small spots will sink in. Grip will be achieved on every single surface that a 'Mech will come across on flat terrain. On hills, however, it all depends on the grade.

60% grade, a 'Mech will fall on its a**.

7% grade, more than likely the 'Mech will make bigger hills (or destroy) out of the guns it hauls around.

[Hangfire]

Turning at speed should cause the mech to lean towards the inside as a runner or motorbike would, the more severe the turn the deeper the lean, the deeper the lean the more likley the mech is to slip. I look forward to 'getting my knee down' in a light

[Leetskeet]

Surely the bottom of a mech's foot isn't smooth enough to slip on a road. Surely they didn't want their mechs to slip the moment they touched a paved surface. Surely the bottom of the feet are rough. Surely.

[ArchLurker Chad]

I know nothing about the lore, but you're basically asking for terrain effects, and that I do like

[Barantor]

Prosperity Park, on 10 December 2011 - 10:01 AM, said:

So.. 100-ton Assault Mechs don't leave footprints or divots in streets? Then why are concrete buildings so darn fragile?

I think we have a discrepancy here...

This.

[Chuckie]

Sorry a 30 or 100 tons bearing down on a patch the shape of a Minivan.. would simply leave "footprints" It damn near anything less than pure granite.

ROUGHLY my calculations state an Atlas would displace about 2880 lbs per square foot !!! OR roughly 8 metric tons per Square Meter. Thats based on a 2M x 6M footprint.. Smaller footprint more wieght.. looks like lighter mechs have smaller feet to go with smaller mass.. so lets just say the Atlas is the high range.. but about average.

Long story short.. thats the equal of parking 25 Ford Expeditions on the footprint of a Ford Expedition.. Trust me somethings going to give and since the Mech is made to hold its own weight without breaking.. I going to say the road loses.

Edited by Chuckie, 29 February 2012 - 03:55 PM.

[Tatius Pryde]

we are talking about the roads of the future.

they would be suited to take a battlemechs weight as parades and such occur on streets in cities.

I doubt they would break and crumble when a mech walks on them, however a jenner at top speed trying to turn sharply on an intersection would indeed slide if the pilot doesnt pass his "dice roll".

Mechcommander has a raven spin on the concrete and make a turn at high speed it in its opening cinamatic. the concrete doesnt break, the raven pulls off a tight turn on concrete and even spins a foot on the concrete. (probally not the best example)

that mechwarrior passsed all this "rolls" and succsessfully turns and doesnt fall. this should be for the majority of the game. also helped along by "skills" we unlock. but there is certain circumstances where he could fail.

BUT if he failed for what ever reason. he should skid or even fall/crash into a building/ground.

TLDR of my veiws.
- Mechs wont crack concrete by simply standing on it / walking on it
- Mechs WILL slide at high speed manovering and turning if the pilot is crap at ....er....piloting.
- Mechs will break concrete if they run or jump/land.

Edited by Tatius Pryde, 29 February 2012 - 04:31 PM.

[Morashtak]

Something to keep in mind; Modern day roads do not have the weight bearing capability of runways designed for heavily-laden bombers and cargo aircraft. The runway thicknesses vary from 10 in (250 mm) to 4 ft (1 m), including subgrade. Roads, not so much. Also, underlying strata must be factored in as well; Gravel subgrade layed over clay is going to give much more than concrete poured over slate.

Would be interesting to take that into account so that a pilot must look around and check the terrain to figure out whether the roads can take the weight of his 'Mech. After all, not all urban planners envision 'Mechs marching down their carefully layed out boulevards.

And bridges are another matter, altogether.

[Zerik]

While I haven't yet made up my mind on whether a 'Mech should indeed slide or simply topple over when making a sudden hard turn while going at high speed on a surface that does not break up under their feet...

Two very important points that I think many (though certainly not all) are forgetting:

1. BattleMechs and Tanks do not use the same method of moving themselves. Unless I've got completely insane, treads =/= feet. So saying "A tank can slide on concrete, so a 'Mech should too!" is an inherently invalid argument.

2. Not all ferrocrete streets in canon are rated the same. What is used for Dropship landings is not the same stuff they pave the street in a suburb housing area with. There have been examples of BattleMechs marching over streets that are not rated for their 'Mech tonnage, and in turn tearing up the street. Not all streets are made equally, and so while a 'Mech rated lane would (hopefully) withstand the force of 100 tons of weight being brought down on it focused in the area of the 'Mech's foot, that's not to say that side roads and allyways of a city wouldn't break up and provide better traction.

[Shadou]

Tatius Pryde, on 29 February 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

we are talking about the roads of the future.

they would be suited to take a battlemechs weight as parades and such occur on streets in cities.

I doubt they would break and crumble when a mech walks on them, however a jenner at top speed trying to turn sharply on an intersection would indeed slide if the pilot doesnt pass his "dice roll".

Mechcommander has a raven spin on the concrete and make a turn at high speed it in its opening cinamatic. the concrete doesnt break, the raven pulls off a tight turn on concrete and even spins a foot on the concrete. (probally not the best example)

that mechwarrior passsed all this "rolls" and succsessfully turns and doesnt fall. this should be for the majority of the game. also helped along by "skills" we unlock. but there is certain circumstances where he could fail.

BUT if he failed for what ever reason. he should skid or even fall/crash into a building/ground.

TLDR of my veiws.
- Mechs wont crack concrete by simply standing on it / walking on it
- Mechs WILL slide at high speed manovering and turning if the pilot is crap at ....er....piloting.
- Mechs will break concrete if they run or jump/land.

Sounds like a misuse of resources to make civ roads for Mech compliance/use.

I guess you could argue that technology is more advanced and their concrete/asphalt is 10 times stronger than modern day. (So what it boils down to is game mechanics and what the Devs think is better for gameplay.)

We can all agreed that trying to quickly change direction at high speed, no matter what type of locomotion will produce at least some degree of control loss no matter what type of terrain. And the more weight involved the more severe the control loss.

[Pht]

"Slippery" ferrocrete is fine by me.

Really, the stuff isn't as much "slippery" as it is "you can't be a moron on this stuff. Be careful!"

[Listless Nomad]

I voted no on this topic - but for the record - the questions are a little biased towards one answer.

Just because it wasn't in table top doesn't make it an arcade game. Even twenty tons pressing on an area less that 6 feet across would fracture asphalt and a street.

That's why tanks in major cities for parades have to have special tracks put on to keep from ripping up the roads too badly.

[Sorbio]

The way I've always found the skidding rule plausible is this: asphalt is made up of layers, with gravel underneath. A mech travelling too fast and failing to maintain control digs out a divot and skids/falls/whatever. City streets are not spaceport pads. It's nice to think that ferrocrete is liberally applied to urban streets, but I just can't see it. Sometimes you just need to make up a why to justify the rule.

If it's in the game, great. If not, probably not going to be a big deal either.

[Saren21]

If they do make ferrocrete slipery for mechs in game it think will be kinda fun. you could have light mech drifting.. or even better for the kids "disney's• Mechs on Ferrocrete <(..<) (^'') (>..)>"