310 replies to this topic

[Buck Rogers]

Alex Wolfe, on 07 July 2012 - 02:09 AM, said:

Seriously, the mech was created to be cannon fodder. I realize that it's "oh so pwetty and tiny and potentially so badass if you win with it", but at the end of the day, in a multiplayer environment I forsee few people willing to actually play as cannon fodder.

One of the reasons people are so vocal about the urbanmech is cause of posts like this. I believe a lot of maps will be "capture the enemy base or defeat all enemy mechs". A basic gameplay mode. That means that for some units, defending the base, being 2nd line or even 3rd line combatants, etc, is a viable strategy.

Fact: In perhaps 50% of matches or more, the urbanmechs speed is unlikely to matter. In the others, the handicap won't be as titanic a flaw as people think. Nor will a future 162.0 km/h Firemoth be a game changer.

The Urbanmech has 6 tons of armor.
Jenner has 4 tons.
Raven has 4 tons.
Cicada has 4 tons.
Jagermech at 65 tons still only has 6 tons of armor.
(yeah, those are base models)

"It doesn't have the firepower or armor to slug it out!! Trashcan fills me with rage!". Doesn't make a shred of sense to me.

If you adapt the urbanmeh to your strategy, the mech might suck. If you adapt your strategy to the urbanmech, there's just too much armor and gun for it not to work better than expected.

[Abagnatius]

URBIE! URBIE! URBIE!
*dancing around like in a rain-dance*

EDIT

By the way: we do not yet have a light mech which can carry ballistic weapons - the Urbie does.

Edited by Gridian, 07 July 2012 - 02:49 AM.

[Monolith]

Kodiak Steiner, on 05 July 2012 - 09:37 AM, said:

An Elemental could kill an Urbie! THERE I said it!

A good elemental could kill just about anything.

If I am honest about my feelings on the Urbanmech, I too would probably pilot it in nothing but an urban or other similar heavy cover environment. Depending upon how many mechs we are allowed in our stable, there are other more useful tools I would pilot. Sure. Bragging rights. Great. If you can own in an urbie you can own in anything... I just think if the number of mechs in my garage is limited and/or I have to pay upkeep on my mechs, I can think of better uses for my space/c-bills. If we are allowed to accumulate mechs like trading cards, then sure. I will build (for those of you who play Magic the Gathering or some such) a rat deck full of urbies.

[Kyuzo]

urbanmech....

urbanmech everywhere!

Edited by Kyuzo, 07 July 2012 - 04:07 AM.

[Strongbeau]

I'm very fond of Urbie the Love Mech (you don't have a heart if you don't) but in MWO, I'm not sure how its intangible benefits of low cost and ease of maneuver (jumping over lvl 2 High buildings to the next street over and disappearing) will do well in this game other then derp ambushing (one of my fave tactics in WoT). Using WoT as a comparison, to me the Urbie is like that game's AMX-40 (The Rubber Ducky tank). Like the Urbie, its charming as hell, well armored for a light tank and very slow with a respectable punch for a Tier 4 tank. Its a Light tank that plays like a Heavy tank. If this comparison continues, I see me getting very frustrated with playing the Urbie, like I did with the rubber ducky tank. It never got to where it was needed in time to help the team, way outclassed by tanks a tier higher (not to mention it was often in battles with tanks 3 tiers higher), and it was one of the few tanks that so underwhelmed me and tried my incredible patience so much that I just outright sold it. Once I was trudging up a hill in that tank to help my medium allies I left the base with and couldn't get there in time, and then got flanked by a big fast Heavy tank 3 tiers higher (IS) and...yeah, I fired, ricocheted off its track/hull area, got one shotted, and felt like a worthless speed bump as it went on to dominate my team. Its charming looks wore off on me that battle. Only difference that breaks the comparison is that the Urbie's weapons can actually hurt Heavies and Assaults.
So if its in the game (And I do hope it is) chances are I won't play the Urbie even though I love it (maybe I don't want to spoil that love like I did with the rubber ducky tank). Instead I will be following it through the city to kill it with my jump capable Cataphract I will eventually get or if possible, my Strongbow configuration (brawler/2PPC's/2SRM6's/12DHS/11tArmor/BV1470) of my Founders Catapult.

[AdamBaines]

I hope they include the Urbie just so we can see it fail.

I USED to love the Urbanmech before the MWOForums. The people who love the Urbanmech so much and continue these posts are like people in a co-dependent relationship: You focus on the one good thing about the person, and live in denial about the 1000 other things that are really really crappy with the person and live in denial.

[Aethon]

I don't understand why anyone would want to exclude a mech from MWO. If you don't like a particular mech, then don't use it; I happen to strongly dislike the Cicada (always have), but you don't see me saying it shouldn't be in the game.

I get the feeling the haters are just afraid of the embarassment that will result from their being owned by one.

Kodiak Steiner, on 05 July 2012 - 09:37 AM, said:

An Elemental could kill an Urbie! THERE I said it!

Jake Kabrinski soloed an Atlas with nothing more than a suit of Elemental armor. That must mean that the capabilities of the Atlas and Urbanmech are remarkably similar!

Edited by Aethon, 07 July 2012 - 04:51 AM.

[RacerX]

Add me to the cult of Urbie. I would love to see one in game. Bring it on Devs. Two made it's way into MW4 and they were quite successful.

[TheRingLeader]

Protection, on 05 July 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

It is a noble and majestic creature. Not known for speed or grace or dignity, but rather for its resilience, bravery, grit, and determination. It's the Rudy Ruettiger of the Battletech universe - the tiny mech that tries so big.

Seems legit.

Protection, on 05 July 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

It is a noble and majestic creature. Not known for speed or grace or dignity, but rather for its resilience, bravery, grit, and determination. It's the Rudy Ruettiger of the Battletech universe - the tiny mech that tries so big.

Seems legit.

[Aethon]

RacerX, on 07 July 2012 - 04:53 AM, said:

Add me to the cult of Urbie. I would love to see one in game. Bring it on Devs. Two made it's way into MW4 and they were quite successful.

This. With customization, they can be pretty wicked.

Edited by Aethon, 07 July 2012 - 04:56 AM.

[HybridTheory]

Elkarlo, on 05 July 2012 - 04:50 PM, said:

I would like to see you, an Urbie can full fire and still won't overheat with an Flamer on it, and ONE hit with the Ac/10 on your Jenner,
you will see SKY, Earth, SKY, Earth....
( a Jenner in TT don't can only absorb in center Torso a hit without damage on internal. one hit on your arm and you lost 2 Laser instand)

When you would try this and the Urbis hit with 50%... your mech will have damaged one urbi, and unlikely have penetrated his Armor, and your Mech would be hot and about breaking apart... and can't run because you are hot...
srry for spoiling dreams.

Hm. Well as this is not table top, and it is MY dreams... you can't spoil or crush them.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Buck Rogers, on 06 July 2012 - 11:50 PM, said:

An AC-10 packs a 10 damage point punch which will slam into one hit location, and has a range of up to 450 meters.

Yeah, the Jenner can fire 4 medium lasers at once for 20 damage points, but only at 270 meters or less, and those 4 lasers could hit 4 different hit locations.

Now, if it's one thing World Of Tanks has taught me it's that most people think that if a vehicle is fast, that means this is an advantage, and rushing to meet the enemy is the best way to exploit it. Seasoned tacticians know that's wrong, but I guarantee you that a lot of MWO players will think "My Jenner goes 118kph! CHARGE!". Happens in almost every WoT game if someone has a fast tank.

Well, my point is, if the enemy is coming to the Urbanmech, not the other way around, then Tank Destroyer style tactics will let the Urbanmech achieve success quite a lot of the time. Urbanmech has 2 tons more armor and a longer punch than the Jenner.

Urbanmechs weapons & low speed limits your combat options to: Defend, Snipe, & Support.

Jenners weapons & high speed means your options are: Flank, Charge, Reconnoiter, Defend, Support.

Now, which mechs combat options would be harder to pull off successfully? Which mech would your average "noob" die in faster?

Mechwarrior Online will be as much about the players as the mechs. I guarantee you there will be a lot of "LOL i'ma charge'em with my speedy speed mech!". And when that happens, an equally "noob" Urbanmech player will waddle into view, fart out a few AC-10 rounds, and then feel very accomplished that they took down that enemy.

For a new player, being very fast will often get you killed far quicker and more pointlessly than being very slow. Anybody who's played WoT knows exactly what I'm talking about.

Exactly, what others also don't realize is, that the slow speed of the Urban 'mech FORCES them to stick with allied units. They won't be able to bolt away from that Atlas and Cataphract they are following into combat with, and when you see a trio of 'mechs such as that, who will you target first? The Urbanmech with its small profile and much lower firepower will be entirely ignored, allowing the newer player to fire with near impunity with its AC20 or AC10 while the Cataphract or Atlas take the heat. While the Urbie is slugging away with its AC, it also doesn't ever have to worry about overheating, too! Mash that fire trigger new player. Eventually, they will learn good habits of staying near friendly units and getting good fire positions.

And again, even if the new player does die, that gives plenty of time for the Atlas or Cataphract to unleash hell with their large bores AC's and med Lasers while the new guy made for one successful distraction and has a TINY repair bill/ replacement bill compared to the loss of say an Atlas.

Perfect learning curve 'mech.



"Some men pilot 100 ton assault 'mechs
Real men pilot 30 ton assault 'mechs."

Edited by mwhighlander, 07 July 2012 - 06:40 AM.

[wanderer]

People have also noted that one can turn an Urbie into a reverse-trap by downgrading the AC and mounting a larger energy weapon- on a relatively small target hitbox, at that.

PPC or a large pulse laser on the off-arm, MG or suchlike on the other instead? Not bad.

[Hayashi]

Problem with the Urbie is that it's a light 'Mech doing a Heavy/Assault 'Mech role, and in most cases, it's better to have that Heavy/Assault do it instead, unless repair costs are prohibitively expensive. That's why I like the idea of having the Urbie - it's playing the game on Hard difficulty.

[Odweaver]

wanderer, on 07 July 2012 - 07:33 AM, said:

People have also noted that one can turn an Urbie into a reverse-trap by downgrading the AC and mounting a larger energy weapon- on a relatively small target hitbox, at that.

PPC or a large pulse laser on the off-arm, MG or suchlike on the other instead? Not bad.

Going to need a picture of a girl urbie dressed in guy urbie clothes for this.

[Alex Wolfe]

Buck Rogers, on 07 July 2012 - 02:36 AM, said:

One of the reasons people are so vocal about the urbanmech is cause of posts like this. I believe a lot of maps will be "capture the enemy base or defeat all enemy mechs". A basic gameplay mode. That means that for some units, defending the base, being 2nd line or even 3rd line combatants, etc, is a viable strategy.

Fact: In perhaps 50% of matches or more, the urbanmechs speed is unlikely to matter. In the others, the handicap won't be as titanic a flaw as people think. Nor will a future 162.0 km/h Firemoth be a game changer.

The Urbanmech has 6 tons of armor.
Jenner has 4 tons.
Raven has 4 tons.
Cicada has 4 tons.
Jagermech at 65 tons still only has 6 tons of armor.
(yeah, those are base models)

"It doesn't have the firepower or armor to slug it out!! Trashcan fills me with rage!". Doesn't make a shred of sense to me.

If you adapt the urbanmeh to your strategy, the mech might suck. If you adapt your strategy to the urbanmech, there's just too much armor and gun for it not to work better than expected.

Well, knock yourself out. All I'm saying is that I don't see an actual tactical reason to play the trashcan and predict people abandoning it in droves. If you have any actual reason for the UM, rather than "well look, it's not TOTALLY horrible!" (being sturdier than Cicada that can go twice its speed, and as tough as the famously papier-mache Jagermech is hardly compelling) and the price (there's a world of difference between fielding a "budget" mech as one of your minions, and actually piloting it)... I'm all ears. No really, no sarcasm here.

Nostalgia and feelings of fondness are good enough reasons to play something in a game, naturally - all I'm saying is that I don't see many people actually playing it, should other options prove superior... which, at least on paper, it seems might happen.

No "rage" here since there's nothing to rage about, by the way (the game isn't even out, UM isn't in yet, so it's not like I'm venting on some UM "scrub" ruining my precious, precious match) merely an "educated guess". I like its look as much as the next guy, I just don't see a niche it might be filling, or a strategy it might employ where it doesn't seem outclassed by even the humble Hunchback.

Edited by Alex Wolfe, 07 July 2012 - 10:19 AM.

[Undead Bane]

The main counter-argument i see here about adding Urbies is "mwuhaha, noone will play the trashbin". Why are you so sure?

[Hayashi]

Alex Wolfe, on 07 July 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:

No "rage" here since there's nothing to rage about, by the way (the game isn't even out, UM isn't in yet, so it's not like I'm venting on some UM "scrub" ruining my precious, precious match) merely an "educated guess". I like its look as much as the next guy, I just don't see a niche it might be filling, or a strategy it might employ where it doesn't seem outclassed by even the humble Hunchback.

The Hunchback doesn't have Jump Jets, so that's something the Urbie can do that it can't. The Cataphract might be a better comparison here for the purposes of your argument. =P

If cost (C-Bills wise) is not a factor I'd say the Cataphract outclasses the UrbanMech in every possible comparison other than aesthetics, which is debatable, and size of hit area.

[Benaresh]

TheEn4cer, on 05 July 2012 - 11:23 AM, said:

I hope they put it in the game, you've always gotta have the most low tier option available for the giggles. Besides it gives the more sensible people something to shoot at without worry.

The Urbanmech was designed to go up against infantry in a close quarters enviroment, it's really for anti-riot duties. They are also legendary in poor build quality, having the pilots die mostly due to the command console detaching and crushing the pilot in his/her seat if the mech fell over...

AC10 sounds very sensible as Crowd control for me ;D

i think you were refering to this mech here

Sarna says about the Urbie:

The UrbanMech packs a powerful punch for its size. The standard version carries an Imperator-B Autocannon/10 in its right arm and as a back up weapon it carries a Harmon Light Small Laser in the left arm. With these two weapons the UrbanMech can constantly harass, or if piloted by an experienced enough MechWarrior, down 'Mechs up to twice its own size.

[Sean von Steinike]

With the huge cult of Urbanmech, the devs may make it and sell it for $15 or something. Cash cow!