318 replies to this topic

[Juodas Varnas]

Ashvins, on 15 July 2015 - 11:13 AM, said:

Only problem with this poll is when it come's to the heavy's. First the poll was before the increasing of the lower Right arm they dynamic weapons pass did to the Dragon. Second, Dragon's have been in the "outhouse" so long no one vote's for them because no one (or very few) pilot's them. Third, heavy's have the most mechs that need re-sizing so limiting it to 3 is "Bad Form"

Please, for the love of god, stop with the unnecessary apostrophes!

Also, Dragon is actually a pretty popular mech in Community Warfare (well, the one variant with AC5 quirks -1N).

I'd also argue that the Medium weight class as the most mechs that require a rescale:
Vindicator, Trebuchet, Centurion, Nova, and Griffin with Shadowhawk (arguable)

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 15 July 2015 - 11:22 AM.

[Zephonarch II]

Clay Pigeon, on 10 July 2015 - 05:17 PM, said:

We're only able to vote for 1 of the 5?

Wow, Tina Benoit really crippler crossface'd our ability to choose.

...Chris Benoit reference. Am I the only one who noticed? ...that guy could amateur wrestle Angle...

....nvm. I'm an Old fan.
But the whole roster is out of proportion. Cent, Treb, Awesome, ...basically most of the first few mechs that got into the game should be rescaled, even remodeled.

Edited by Zephonarch II, 15 July 2015 - 11:28 AM.

[Nostirius]

The sad thing is that the Nova won't be fixed with a resize. It still got screwed on all other fronts. It's just as fast as a Timberwolf despite a 25T difference. It has no ferros or endo. 5 fixed JJ that are just not worth the tonnage in the current game. And 4 fixed double heatsinks in the left and right torso.

Being smaller will just bring those big low hanging arms closer to the ground. It will still lack the speed and agility to take advantage of its smaller profile. It is just wasted votes/Dev time imo.

The Nova needs help/love/a remake. But should not have been number 1 on this list. There are a couple of mechs that would actually become more viable with a resize/rescale. Unfortunately not all of them are even in the top 12.

Many mechs in this game need to be adjusted and of those a lot need their width adjusted. For some reason PGI made many of the mech wider then the concept art. Centurion, Awesome are prime examples. A straigth up rescale isn't going to fix that. The result is bulky arms and legs and barndoor torsos not only hurting them in game but also plain ugly most of the time.

I feel people expect more from the rescale then it probably is. It's not going to fix the Awesome even when you scale the thing to 75% size it will always have a barn door torso. It needs a lot more then that and that is a problem. Because adjusting the models is one thing but the extra textures/Camo adjustments are a lot of work I doubt PGI is willing to do by the looks of the Weapon/arm adjustments missing camo textures.

While I am happy that pgi is doing something about the size issue adjusting the 5 worse offenders is just a patch on the underlying problem. PGI should just as with the maps take each mech and overhaul them considdering player imput/data and common sense. (and normalise the textures while they are at it)

[Trev Firestorm]

Dingo Red, on 15 July 2015 - 07:48 AM, said:

Seems like a lot of people are misunderstanding what this poll will achieve... this is a rescale in terms of overall scale, not width, height, etc etc. You can't just take a model and shrink or stretch it in a certain direction.

So why the Awesome is there, I do not know.

Actually yes you can, it just means textures may need adjustment as well as some detailing work.

[Eximar]

So many IS mechs that need it and 40% of the rescaling effort will go towards clan mechs. Bleh...

[Ashvins]

Juodas Varnas, on 15 July 2015 - 11:21 AM, said:

Please, for the love of god, stop with the unnecessary apostrophes!

Also, Dragon is actually a pretty popular mech in Community Warfare (well, the one variant with AC5 quirks -1N).

I'd also argue that the Medium weight class as the most mechs that require a rescale:
Vindicator, Trebuchet, Centurion, Nova, and Griffin with Shadowhawk (arguable)

You may be right on that, 8 of the mediums had 300+ vote's vs 7 of the Heavies And the dragon's in CW are only because with the Quirks on the 1N. it compensates for the huge CT and now huge RA, but do you see the others ? I don't see anything but 1N dragons with Dual ac 5's in CW. I see more Quickdraw's in CW or PUG drops than Dragon's. But that's a discussion for another thread.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Nostirius, on 15 July 2015 - 11:33 AM, said:

The sad thing is that the Nova won't be fixed with a resize. It still got screwed on all other fronts. It's just as fast as a Timberwolf despite a 25T difference. It has no ferros or endo. 5 fixed JJ that are just not worth the tonnage in the current game. And 4 fixed double heatsinks in the left and right torso.

Being smaller will just bring those big low hanging arms closer to the ground. It will still lack the speed and agility to take advantage of its smaller profile. It is just wasted votes/Dev time imo.

The Nova needs help/love/a remake. But should not have been number 1 on this list. There are a couple of mechs that would actually become more viable with a resize/rescale. Unfortunately not all of them are even in the top 12.

Many mechs in this game need to be adjusted and of those a lot need their width adjusted. For some reason PGI made many of the mech wider then the concept art. Centurion, Awesome are prime examples. A straigth up rescale isn't going to fix that. The result is bulky arms and legs and barndoor torsos not only hurting them in game but also plain ugly most of the time.

I feel people expect more from the rescale then it probably is. It's not going to fix the Awesome even when you scale the thing to 75% size it will always have a barn door torso. It needs a lot more then that and that is a problem. Because adjusting the models is one thing but the extra textures/Camo adjustments are a lot of work I doubt PGI is willing to do by the looks of the Weapon/arm adjustments missing camo textures.

While I am happy that pgi is doing something about the size issue adjusting the 5 worse offenders is just a patch on the underlying problem. PGI should just as with the maps take each mech and overhaul them considdering player imput/data and common sense. (and normalise the textures while they are at it)

I dunno what you're on about mate, the Nova is a beast. I'd trade 18 kph for 5 JJs any day, SCR can take a hike; It's all about running the right builds. Give this a spin and see if you think the Nova still sucks.

https://www.mechspec...ms-1x-tc1.9672/

A scale down is just another point in a long list of buffs they keep feeding me, despite the fact that I'm already winning :V

[VixNix]

Why not just do all of them that got top votes from first cut?

[Rizzelbizzeg]

Nostirius, on 15 July 2015 - 11:33 AM, said:

The sad thing is that the Nova won't be fixed with a resize. It still got screwed on all other fronts. It's just as fast as a Timberwolf despite a 25T difference. It has no ferros or endo. 5 fixed JJ that are just not worth the tonnage in the current game. And 4 fixed double heatsinks in the left and right torso.

Being smaller will just bring those big low hanging arms closer to the ground. It will still lack the speed and agility to take advantage of its smaller profile. It is just wasted votes/Dev time imo.

The Nova needs help/love/a remake. But should not have been number 1 on this list. There are a couple of mechs that would actually become more viable with a resize/rescale. Unfortunately not all of them are even in the top 12.

Many mechs in this game need to be adjusted and of those a lot need their width adjusted. For some reason PGI made many of the mech wider then the concept art. Centurion, Awesome are prime examples. A straigth up rescale isn't going to fix that. The result is bulky arms and legs and barndoor torsos not only hurting them in game but also plain ugly most of the time.
<snip>

In regards to the nova, exactly this^^^. Per Russ on twitter they're only gonna scale in all dimensions, can't just scale in one dimension for whatever reason. The nova will get narrower (which it needs) and shorter (which will leave you shooting rocks and tree stumps constantly). If they do wholesale scaling, they need to raise the arms to compensate IMO. I wish those awesome pixel charts peeps made didn't make the nova look so bad, it definitely shouldn't be first place in the poll.

Edited by Rizzelbizzeg, 15 July 2015 - 12:52 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Rizzelbizzeg, on 15 July 2015 - 12:50 PM, said:

In regards to the nova, exactly this^^^. Per Russ on twitter they're only gonna scale in all dimensions, can't just scale in one dimension for whatever reason. The nova will get narrower (which it needs) and shorter (which will leave you shooting rocks and tree stumps constantly). If they do wholesale scaling, they need to raise the arms to compensate IMO. I wish those awesome pixel charts peeps made didn't make the nova look so bad, it definitely shouldn't be first place in the poll.

The Nova IS so bad. Narrower is the critical dimension; height is neither an advantage nor disadvantage(rather, it's a mixed bag of pros and cons and highly situational). Low arms don't result in shooting rocks, what matters is the height of the arm RELATIVE TO THE COCKPIT. If the Nova is shrunk equally in all three dimensions this will bring the guns *closer* to the cockpit, which directly results in easier aiming.

VixNix, on 15 July 2015 - 11:57 AM, said:

Why not just do all of them that got top votes from first cut?

time budgeted to this project vs. other things. The set aside enough dev time to do what the "community felt was the worst 5"

[Rizzelbizzeg]

Wintersdark, on 15 July 2015 - 12:58 PM, said:

The Nova IS so bad. Narrower is the critical dimension; height is neither an advantage nor disadvantage(rather, it's a mixed bag of pros and cons and highly situational). Low arms don't result in shooting rocks, what matters is the height of the arm RELATIVE TO THE COCKPIT. If the Nova is shrunk equally in all three dimensions this will bring the guns *closer* to the cockpit, which directly results in easier aiming.

I partially agree. Needs narrowed? Absolutely yes. Relative to the cockpit? I don't think that has anything to do with low slung arms. So you're saying lower hardpoints are better if they're just under the cockpit than high mounted ones twice as far above the cockpit? I don't see it, it's all about distance to ground to me.

[Andyboy]

This is really great, all the constant improvements to this wonderful (and free!) game. It really is appreciated.

That said, I'd really like to see more Nova's piloted out there, change up the usual Clan mix tape. So, maybe a bit of a redo could help spice things up! Let my vote be known

[Wintersdark]

Rizzelbizzeg, on 15 July 2015 - 01:08 PM, said:

I partially agree. Needs narrowed? Absolutely yes. Relative to the cockpit? I don't think that has anything to do with low slung arms. So you're saying lower hardpoints are better if they're just under the cockpit than high mounted ones twice as far above the cockpit? I don't see it, it's all about distance to ground to me.

no, you misunderstand what I said, and you're wrong. Distance to ground is irrelevant, it's how much lower than the cockpit. Obviously, higher than the cockpit is fine, because we don't have hanging obstructions or you'd have the same problem in reverse.

This is why: it's because of perspective; you "naturally" expect the shot to come from your point of view, but it instead comes from some other point. The further that point from the camera, the harder it is to adequately predict the path of the beam/projectile in 3D space, particularly when it's displayed on a 2D monitor. Thus, you end up shooting terrain.

Put it this way: lasers 1m off the ground, with your cockpit 1m off the ground, you'll never shoot rocks because the beams will be along your line of sight. Then get into an Executioner, with arm mounted lasers at say 7m off the ground, and your cockpit 15m off the ground, and you shoot terrain all the time.

[Rizzelbizzeg]

Wintersdark, on 15 July 2015 - 01:40 PM, said:

no, you misunderstand what I said, and you're wrong. Distance to ground is irrelevant, it's how much lower than the cockpit. Obviously, higher than the cockpit is fine, because we don't have hanging obstructions or you'd have the same problem in reverse.

This is why: it's because of perspective; you "naturally" expect the shot to come from your point of view, but it instead comes from some other point. The further that point from the camera, the harder it is to adequately predict the path of the beam/projectile in 3D space, particularly when it's displayed on a 2D monitor. Thus, you end up shooting terrain.

Put it this way: lasers 1m off the ground, with your cockpit 1m off the ground, you'll never shoot rocks because the beams will be along your line of sight. Then get into an Executioner, with arm mounted lasers at say 7m off the ground, and your cockpit 15m off the ground, and you shoot terrain all the time.

No YOU'RE wrong lolol IDK, that makes some sense, but I still don't agree that height off ground is irrelevant. We'll just have to wait and see how it turns out.

[0111101]

So far it's the Nova, Awesome, Catapult, Kit Fox, and Quickdraw in the lead, in that order, with the Centurion just behind the Quickdraw in votes.

I'm okay with this. As long as those first four I listed get scaled down I'll be happy, and if the Quickdraw gets scaled down I may actually add that chassis to my mech pool... The Centurion is a bit big for it's size but I think the Quickdraw needs it more if I had to choose between the two.

[bad arcade kitty]

Wintersdark, on 15 July 2015 - 01:40 PM, said:

Distance to ground is irrelevant, it's how much lower than the cockpit.

that's what i wanted to write too
also when the model shrinks the relative distance from cockpit to weapons remains the same but the absolute one decreases so nova will be even a bit easier to hill hump

[Rushmoar]

VixNix, on 15 July 2015 - 11:57 AM, said:

Why not just do all of them that got top votes from first cut?

Time and money. They would delay other projects so they are focusing on the 5 top offenders. I do however hope that there will be another pass for 5 more in the near future.
What will help determine another pass this if they actually see an increase in the use of the rescaled mechs. If no one plays the rescaled mechs then it will show PGI that it isn't worth their time to rescale mechs after all.
I will definitely be using the Kit Fox and Quickdraw more in the near future.

[ManDaisy]

I dunno, seems awful close between the cent and the quickdraw. The quickdraw needs it more however, how its so close doesnt make a damn bit of sense to me, maybe all those free centurions floating around.

[Tina Benoit]

Thank you everyone for your votes!!
This poll is now closed!