45 replies to this topic

[STEF_]

MW2 is lostech.

[Alistair Winter]

MechaBattler, on 11 July 2015 - 08:22 AM, said:

They already give a decent advantage over non-JJ mechs. If you took it further. There would need to be a counter balance. Like more heat or weight.

I don't think they'd ever touch the weight of any piece of equipment in the game. But it makes sense to use heat as a balancing mechanic. Ideally, I think the Class IV and Class V jump jets should cause far less heat than Class I and Class II jump jets. I'd like to see light mechs and medium mechs capable of some real mid-air acrobatics, but assault mechs should mostly use jump jets for mobility, not poptarting.

Joseph Mallan, on 11 July 2015 - 08:25 AM, said:

I would have to learn or at least try to learn something new... Bonus!

My thoughts exactly. More advanced controls would be a fun challenge.

[Wintersdark]

Joseph Mallan, on 11 July 2015 - 08:25 AM, said:

I would have to learn or at least try to learn something new... Bonus!

While bathing in the tears of all those who are constantly deeply upset by this. Learning and adapting is lostech.

Wintersdark, on 11 July 2015 - 09:29 AM, said:

Learning and adapting is lostech.

But complaining that the game is stale and unchanging? That's a constant...

[Unnatural Growth]

I would be for it for movement and maneuverability. Maybe a little more thrust on the class I's, and still fix the class II's, but they wouldn't have to be much more powerful. Just give turning, side strafe and fore and aft movements depending on your std movement keys. That would be pretty cool.

[stjobe]

Wintersdark, on 11 July 2015 - 09:30 AM, said:

While bathing in the tears of all those who are constantly deeply upset by this. Learning and adapting is lostech.



But complaining that the game is stale and unchanging? That's a constant...

Did you... did you just quote and reply to your own post, all in the same post? Wow... Meta...

Edited by stjobe, 11 July 2015 - 09:42 AM.

[TheSilken]

Hell yea. First they need to remove the damn jj physics so that all mechs regardless of f*cking height/tonnage can jump equally with the same number of jjs.

[Wintersdark]

stjobe, on 11 July 2015 - 09:42 AM, said:

Did you... did you just quote and reply to your own post, all in the same post? Wow... Meta...

Lol yeah, I've leet forum warrior powers it was actually a misclick, and being on my phone on a break at work, I didn't have time to fix it

[TercieI]

Wintersdark, on 11 July 2015 - 10:55 AM, said:

Lol yeah, I've leet forum warrior powers it was actually a misclick, and being on my phone on a break at work, I didn't have time to fix it

Please don't. It was glorious.

[C E Dwyer]

jump jets would have to be a lot stronger than they are now, to have any extra complexity put in them, i'm guessing that your suggesting this in the hope we get useful JJ's back as a side effect, unless you can actually jump properly using them, it seem extra work for no value

[Alistair Winter]

Cathy, on 11 July 2015 - 11:38 AM, said:

jump jets would have to be a lot stronger than they are now, to have any extra complexity put in them, i'm guessing that your suggesting this in the hope we get useful JJ's back as a side effect, unless you can actually jump properly using them, it seem extra work for no value

Indeed. Although I'm not sure how you'd balance them. I mean, I'm not too concerned about making the Jenner OP compared to medium, heavy or assault mechs, for example. But if 5 jump jets basically makes you a Macross gundam god, then obviously people would stop playing light mechs without jump jets (such as the RVN-2X) instantly. So one would need to figure out how to balance this, without simply showering non-jumpers with more weapon quirks.

[stjobe]

Alistair Winter, on 11 July 2015 - 02:02 PM, said:

Indeed. Although I'm not sure how you'd balance them. I mean, I'm not too concerned about making the Jenner OP compared to medium, heavy or assault mechs, for example. But if 5 jump jets basically makes you a Macross gundam god

5 Jump Jets should mean "capable of jumping 150 meters horizontally and 30 meters vertically"; I don't know if being able to jump twice the height of a 'mech satisfies the "Macross gundam god" criteria or not

Alistair Winter, on 11 July 2015 - 02:02 PM, said:

then obviously people would stop playing light mechs without jump jets (such as the RVN-2X) instantly. So one would need to figure out how to balance this, without simply showering non-jumpers with more weapon quirks.

Well, for starters (and already present) they have additional weight to put into weapons, ammo, and heat sinks that the jump-capable 'mech doesn't. For lights, that's just 2.5 tons (Just? That's 10% of a Commando's weight) for 5 jets, but for an assault it's 10 tons (Huh. 10% of an Atlas weight. Coincidence?) for those 5.

Perhaps another look at the hill-climbing mechanic could be in order as well?

[IIIuminaughty]

but why? it's not like its hard to hit a mech that is using jump jets now.

[ArchMage Sparrowhawk]

Upset? We wouldn't be upset. I've written Microsoft, and FASA about the jumpjets in every game since Mech3 and after. If they turned the number pad into a jumpjet control pad that would be capital.

[ArchMage Sparrowhawk]

Alistair Winter, on 11 July 2015 - 02:02 PM, said:

Indeed. Although I'm not sure how you'd balance them. I mean, I'm not too concerned about making the Jenner OP compared to medium, heavy or assault mechs, for example. But if 5 jump jets basically makes you a Macross gundam god, then obviously people would stop playing light mechs without jump jets (such as the RVN-2X) instantly. So one would need to figure out how to balance this, without simply showering non-jumpers with more weapon quirks.

That's not true. I loved my 2X even in closed beta. True light pilots will play them all with what they have, in their proper roles. But the roles have all been completely futzed, right? I am also worried about the balance, but the fundamentals are in need of attention with this one. In Mechwarriors 2X the JJ control was omnidirectional, but it also had a kick like a mule. It was clunky and it was fast. Anyone with torso twist could track a mech moving like that. It wasn't exactly super responsive. and it definitely wouldn't make anyone a Gundam God, for sure. No smooth controlled flight through the air, just Controlled Rockets strapped to your back.

[Dirk Le Daring]

I have no problem with jump jets as they are.

In fact I think they are fine.

And no, I am not trolling, this is my honest opinion.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Considering that JJ in MWO now work almost exactly like the JJ in TT, for the first time in MW title history, I think that adding some ability to jump laterally would be a nice touch, but doing anything to make the JJ's MORE powerful, no.

Keep in mind, not a single MW title except the original has gotten JJ's working properly. MW2's JJs were probably the worst implemented in the MW title history, only good thing was the directional controls they offered, otherwise, they were extremely over the top. MW3 and MW4, hell even MW:LL all had JJs that didn't fit how they work in TT. PGI is the first dev team since the original MW title to get it right. Yeah, we can't do all the cool stuff we could do in previous MW titles, but never should have been able to in the first place.

Directional controls, yeah, increasing JJ power/distance/height, NO.

[Slow and Decrepit]

I would say yes even though most of the naysayers here are complete bigots! Yes you heard me right. You say no to any improvements of a Victors JJ, but then say I don't mind it if a Nova or any medium or light poptarts. Your worried about 10 points? Really? Nova nails you with 2 ERPPC's instead of a Victors AC 10+2 PPC's. Makes no sense at all, but whatever. You med/light pilots be sure to enjoy your JJ's while the rest of us will get to stand here and watch you high in the sky-bigots even though our Victors USED TO ENJOY some sky time to! not all of us poptarted, but you go ahead and just be that way! Can't say that a Victor has way more armor, because it doesn't. You just don't want to see assaults JJing even though a few of them where made to.Yes I'm mad bro!

Edited by beleneagle, 11 July 2015 - 04:24 PM.

[El Bandito]

Alistair Winter, on 11 July 2015 - 06:47 AM, said:

Is the cooldown a big issue though? Maybe it's part of the problem, but I always figured the main issue was the ability to land ~30 damage with pinpoint accuracy while flying, and then instantly dropping out of view.

Jump stuttering is annoying and abusive.

[Wintersdark]

Kristov Kerensky, on 11 July 2015 - 04:12 PM, said:

Considering that JJ in MWO now work almost exactly like the JJ in TT, for the first time in MW title history, I think that adding some ability to jump laterally would be a nice touch, but doing anything to make the JJ's MORE powerful, no.

Keep in mind, not a single MW title except the original has gotten JJ's working properly. MW2's JJs were probably the worst implemented in the MW title history, only good thing was the directional controls they offered, otherwise, they were extremely over the top. MW3 and MW4, hell even MW:LL all had JJs that didn't fit how they work in TT. PGI is the first dev team since the original MW title to get it right. Yeah, we can't do all the cool stuff we could do in previous MW titles, but never should have been able to in the first place.

Directional controls, yeah, increasing JJ power/distance/height, NO.

What? We get the correct for tabletop jump distances? Really? I always thought TT jump distances where much further than ours laterally.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Wintersdark, on 11 July 2015 - 04:27 PM, said:

What? We get the correct for tabletop jump distances? Really? I always thought TT jump distances where much further than ours laterally.

They are a bit longer on the horizontal in TT, but the vertical in MWO is actually a little more than it should be, so it's close enough that I'm willing to call it good. Most people don't actually go for that horizontal distance, they want the vertical distance.

Like I said, I'd love to see some better directional controls, but otherwise, can't really back any increase in their power.