245 replies to this topic

[Imperius]

Dracol, on 15 July 2015 - 09:36 AM, said:

Hmmm.... if PvE has more opportunities to generate more revenue, why was MW5 not picked up by a publisher but Mechwarrior Online was?

Guess you didn't hear about HoMoney N Gold lawsuit? Might want to educate yourself, I don't see how you're a founder and didn't know about that.

MWO was to be made as a minimal viable micro transaction filled pvp game, that ended up more successful than they thought.

[Johnny Z]

Imperius, on 15 July 2015 - 09:44 AM, said:

Guess you didn't hear about HoMoney N Gold lawsuit? Might want to educate yourself, I don't see how you're a founder and didn't know about that.

MWO was to be made as a minimal viable micro transaction filled pvp game, that ended up more successful than they thought.

No question at all that the scale of the game as well as the amount of features has grown which is why the Galaxy map was so long in coming. I hear it was promised long ago and is only now being finished and is early beta.

I was around when it was promised but didnt play much at the time or on the forums.

Anyway a small micro transaction arena game would have been done by now anyway. As far as Im concerned feature creep has been a great thing, unlike the powercreep that has happened.

Although I know this was always said to become a triple A game even from the start and some players forget that part. To bad its taking so long.

Mechwarrior Online as a next gen triple A game is where its at and I am looking forward to seeing it get there. PVE being part of that along with DLC expansions is a given.

Edited by Johnny Z, 15 July 2015 - 09:53 AM.

[Imperius]

Johnny Z, on 15 July 2015 - 09:51 AM, said:

No question at all that the scale of the game as well as the amount of features has grown which is why the Galaxy map was so long in coming. I hear it was promised long ago and is only now being finished and is early beta.

I was around when it was promised but didnt play much at the time or on the forums.

Anyway a small micro transaction arena game would have been done by now anyway. As far as Im concerned feature creep has been a great thing, unlike the powercreep that has happened.

Although I know this was always said to become a triple A game even from the start and some players forget that part. To bad its taking so long.

Mechwarrior Online as a next gen triple A game is where its at and I am looking forward to seeing it get there.

Yeah I know they said features were coming in but that was after the big 5 million Founder Sales they didn't see coming

[NephyrisX]

Honestly the best I can hope for for PvE are missions like those in Armoured Warfare: Brief missions with a primary objective and a few side objectives scattered around.

[Weeny Machine]

A mix of PvP and PvE would be great. Something alone the lines of the first Alterac Valley in WoW. It was great that you had to accomplish mini missions to gain certain pve units which helped you push the enemy back

[TWIAFU]

Imperius, on 15 July 2015 - 09:28 AM, said:

People have been saying that did you just join this planet?

How do you keep everything that everyone wants with this PvE stuff straight?

You got a link? Spreadsheet? Notes in crayon?

People are all over the place - just in this thread alone!


So, how much are you and your PvE friends going to shell out and pre-order this paid expansion?

$30? $50?

How much do you guys wanna shell out so you don't have to play with anyone anymore?

Edited by TWIAFU, 15 July 2015 - 10:12 AM.

[Imperius]

TWIAFU, on 15 July 2015 - 10:05 AM, said:

How do you keep everything that everyone wants with this PvE stuff straight?

You got a link? Spreadsheet? Notes in crayon?

Seeing as I'm one of the number one pushers for PVE and have been for 3 years, I kinda just retain relevant posts. I could jot them down in crayon if it would help you. I think my photoshop has a crayon brush.

[GRiPSViGiL]

Imperius, on 15 July 2015 - 09:53 AM, said:

Yeah I know they said features were coming in but that was after the big 5 million Founder Sales they didn't see coming

Got more than expected and still screwed up. Which is why they lost any support from me after I saw CW.

[MischiefSC]

I admit, I get a giggle out of the pvp only crowd. Pvp isn't more of a challenge. Statistically it's less of one. Players are as a govern rule pretty average and the actual skill range of people is pretty flat. You improve moderately in a pvp skill and you will beat most people most the time. AI doesn't have the same limitations. Your can make AI that never misses. The challenge is making ai that players can beat but still feel challenged. AI can also do what most matchmakers can't and keep a challenge level scaled to your skill level.

The only advantage of pvp is that it is cheaper. The players are the content. Some people really like the feeling of someone else on the other end with a sense of loss. It's the difference between wanting to win and wanting to make someone else lose. The psychology of it is pretty interesting.

One thing see a lot though is people with a either/or position being more or less unable to understand that not everyone likes what they like save as some sort of moral failing. They like pvp more and so it is the superior ideal. Reality doesn't carry that out so instead of adapting their view to be less self-focused they drill down to make it some moral litmus test.

Climbing Mt. Everest is a greater achievement than beating your little brother at checkers. Yes, playing mwo in cw is vs clans with only stock mechs in your deck is harder than beating Doom with godmode on. Statistically though AI can provide a significantly bigger challenge than pvp due to the shallow human skill curve.

This isn't any sort of moral debate. Most gamers like pve and would play more and have more interest in the game. To make that work it needs to be a legitimate draw of its own. If that doesn't appeal to you personally, that's fine. You have an opinion and nobody wants to take it from you. In no way though is your opinion relevant compared to the statistical data of what people in general do and enjoy. Most people like pve and they like it on average more that pvp. Ignoring that is just silly.

[girl on fire]

I feel like, in theory, OP's points are great and I'd personally love a PVE component... BUT... I don't know, I just think if you start working on a PVE game mode RIGHT NOW... then you'll end up having two separate games with neither one being particularly well fleshed out. For better or worse, it's probably better that PGI finish this the game they envisioned before embarking on anything like that.

Honestly I think it would just make me wish it were a full on singleplayer game like MW4: Mercs.

[Imperius]

TWIAFU, on 15 July 2015 - 10:05 AM, said:

How do you keep everything that everyone wants with this PvE stuff straight?

You got a link? Spreadsheet? Notes in crayon?

People are all over the place - just in this thread alone!


So, how much are you and your PvE friends going to shell out and pre-order this paid expansion?

$30? $50?

How much do you guys wanna shell out so you don't have to play with anyone anymore?

I'll drop another $1000 just not to have to deal with pvp, let's face it ELO is the most damaging thing this game has. At least when I vs AI the game doesn't stack the team against me trying to keep the 50/50 win loss ratio. The players I generally get as a whole on my team are worst than bad programmed AI. So

[Weeny Machine]

MischiefSC, on 15 July 2015 - 10:15 AM, said:

I admit, I get a giggle out of the pvp only crowd. Pvp isn't more of a challenge. Statistically it's less of one. Players are as a govern rule pretty average and the actual skill range of people is pretty flat.

Obviously you have NO idea. There is an ELO bracket where all those pvp forum pros play which we will never be able to enter with our mortal pvp skills. They are organized in the so-called “Pro-therhood”. Some even have the Pro-versight over a whole battlefield which lets them see ECM mechs from a distance even on night or low-visibility maps. Of course only promances are allowed in the protherhood.
Now…how can your silly easy pve compare to that?

[Jon Gotham]

Deathpactt, on 15 July 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

No offence but I do not think MWO team can do the list you are talking about, well not at least in couple years.
What we need an AI mod, same maps and mods (assault, capture and skirmish maybe cw maps too) so new 4-8-12 players can battle against AI opponents and learn the game easier. After that thats their choise to pvp or go on on AI again or both.
Lets be honest MWO is on the market for more than a couple of years and its not getting anywhere. This is a step to the mwo future not new mech packs every 3-4 months. If you need MWO to survive and florish, this is what you need to ask from Devs.

Yeah I know, I was trying to be constructive as the only thing certain people have done is bash away. I was trying to add pve in a way that would minimize the damage to the online community. I don't want the mwo community to only exist on the forums, y'know?
Though I think any mmo of this type that tries to be more than 10 min solomatch is pretty much doomed lol going by the ignorance from this playerbase.

[MischiefSC]

Pve doesn't damage an online community. That's the misnomer. People will play pvp when they want to play pvp. Having pve in addition to that Doesn't change anything save providing more avenues for other people to get into the game.

[Imperius]

Bush Hopper, on 15 July 2015 - 11:17 AM, said:

Obviously you have NO idea. There is an ELO bracket where all those pvp forum pros play which we will never be able to enter with our mortal pvp skills. They are organized in the so-called “Pro-therhood”. Some even have the Pro-versight over a whole battlefield which lets them see ECM mechs from a distance even on night or low-visibility maps. Of course only promances are allowed in the protherhood.
Now…how can your silly easy pve compare to that?

You do realize that PVE AI could headshot you 100% accuracy every time if they so programmed it to do so right? I'm lucky if my team isn't busy shooting rocks.

[Dracol]

Imperius, on 15 July 2015 - 09:44 AM, said:

Guess you didn't hear about HoMoney N Gold lawsuit? Might want to educate yourself, I don't see how you're a founder and didn't know about that.

MWO was to be made as a minimal viable micro transaction filled pvp game, that ended up more successful than they thought.

I guess you didn't fact check and relied on imperfect memory. Visit the Dev Blog 0 HERE
In case you don't want to read the whole history, let me quote some relevant passages:
"Oh Yeah, Harmony Gold

Contrary to all the press and speculation that Harmony Gold was getting in the way of a deal or development, this had no impact whatsoever on development or signing a deal for MechWarrior."

"The hard work began in earnest after the video release. We had an aggressive schedule to visit publishers and gauge interest. In the month of August we met with all of the major publishers, pitched the MechWarrior game to a captive audience and waited. The answers rolled in slowly, starting with the smaller publishers. Then word showed up from the big five. The answer was no.
We knew going in, there were two major risks. No PS3 version due to a Microsoft restriction, and the epic market collapse and major recession. In the end, it was mostly the lack of a PS3 option that did us in. The scope and budget required to develop a console reboot needed the support of a PS3 SKU and we just couldn’t convince publishers to take a risk."

and finally:

"Russ approached Smith & Tinker with regards to licensing the MechWarrior rights and within a few weeks, we signed a deal.
Not long after signing, we quickly realized licensing the rights was one of the most important and future sighted decisions made by us in the last 12 years. Offers were coming in from all over the planet, especially to make or license a free-to-play MechWarrior game."

Now, one could easily dismiss this as corp talk, concealing of facts, or out right lies. But, it is their official position. Also, Harmony Gold did sent out cease and desist orders to websites displaying the trailer video, that is not in dispute.

[Darkblood]

I agree with the people that stated above that PVE can get you more revenue IF DONE RIGHT (I won´t go into that, just wanted to stress how big an IF that is). Also it would be cool.

But it´s also a much bigger investment, once you know that:

(1) PGI stated that their original PVE game was scrapped due to, essentially, lack of funding
(2) The current crew size takes months to do fairly simple modifications to CW or the UI

Isn´t everyone getting all heated up over a moot point? Does anyone here really sees PGI embarking on such a thing in any foreseeable future?

I´m all in favor of having bots as a feature though, even if only available to premium time users (due to sub optimal server use). That is more feasible (could be implemented in the existing private match interface) and could lead to some AI in pvp games too (once you already done the pathing on maps). Tanks and infantry, anyone?

[Johnny Z]

Dracol, on 15 July 2015 - 12:16 PM, said:

I guess you didn't fact check and relied on imperfect memory. Visit the Dev Blog 0 HERE
In case you don't want to read the whole history, let me quote some relevant passages:
"Oh Yeah, Harmony Gold

Contrary to all the press and speculation that Harmony Gold was getting in the way of a deal or development, this had no impact whatsoever on development or signing a deal for MechWarrior."

"The hard work began in earnest after the video release. We had an aggressive schedule to visit publishers and gauge interest. In the month of August we met with all of the major publishers, pitched the MechWarrior game to a captive audience and waited. The answers rolled in slowly, starting with the smaller publishers. Then word showed up from the big five. The answer was no.
We knew going in, there were two major risks. No PS3 version due to a Microsoft restriction, and the epic market collapse and major recession. In the end, it was mostly the lack of a PS3 option that did us in. The scope and budget required to develop a console reboot needed the support of a PS3 SKU and we just couldn’t convince publishers to take a risk."

and finally:

"Russ approached Smith & Tinker with regards to licensing the MechWarrior rights and within a few weeks, we signed a deal.
Not long after signing, we quickly realized licensing the rights was one of the most important and future sighted decisions made by us in the last 12 years. Offers were coming in from all over the planet, especially to make or license a free-to-play MechWarrior game."

Now, one could easily dismiss this as corp talk, concealing of facts, or out right lies. But, it is their official position. Also, Harmony Gold did sent out cease and desist orders to websites displaying the trailer video, that is not in dispute.

Actually it is my understanding that HG contacted Mechwarrior Online, that it was cease and desist isnt for sure. Could be wrong. For all anyone knows Mechwarrior Online already has the rights to those mechs.

Hear that NGNG? Ask the hard questions.

Edited by Johnny Z, 15 July 2015 - 12:27 PM.

[Dracol]

Johnny Z, on 15 July 2015 - 12:21 PM, said:

Actually it is my understanding that HG contacted Mechwarrior Online, that it was cease and desist isnt for sure. Could be wrong. For all anyone knows Mechwarrior Online already has the rights to those mechs.

I did not find confirmation whether or not PGI received a C&D from Harmony Gold. I did find IGN's article where they stated they received a C&D from Harmony Gold to remove the trailer.

[Imperius]

Dracol, on 15 July 2015 - 12:16 PM, said:

I guess you didn't fact check and relied on imperfect memory. Visit the Dev Blog 0 HERE
In case you don't want to read the whole history, let me quote some relevant passages:
"Oh Yeah, Harmony Gold

Contrary to all the press and speculation that Harmony Gold was getting in the way of a deal or development, this had no impact whatsoever on development or signing a deal for MechWarrior."

"The hard work began in earnest after the video release. We had an aggressive schedule to visit publishers and gauge interest. In the month of August we met with all of the major publishers, pitched the MechWarrior game to a captive audience and waited. The answers rolled in slowly, starting with the smaller publishers. Then word showed up from the big five. The answer was no.
We knew going in, there were two major risks. No PS3 version due to a Microsoft restriction, and the epic market collapse and major recession. In the end, it was mostly the lack of a PS3 option that did us in. The scope and budget required to develop a console reboot needed the support of a PS3 SKU and we just couldn’t convince publishers to take a risk."

and finally:

"Russ approached Smith & Tinker with regards to licensing the MechWarrior rights and within a few weeks, we signed a deal.
Not long after signing, we quickly realized licensing the rights was one of the most important and future sighted decisions made by us in the last 12 years. Offers were coming in from all over the planet, especially to make or license a free-to-play MechWarrior game."

Now, one could easily dismiss this as corp talk, concealing of facts, or out right lies. But, it is their official position. Also, Harmony Gold did sent out cease and desist orders to websites displaying the trailer video, that is not in dispute.

Fear of a lawsuit does many things, I'll even say publishers turned it down because of ho money N gold. We won't ever know because PGI/IGP at the time was far from transparent.