97 replies to this topic

[Almond Brown]

Bush Hopper, on 13 July 2015 - 08:38 AM, said:

Like so often a hypocritical note with hidden ad hominems. I get the feeling you need to compensate something because you obviously like to belittle people.

Ja, sure, "use your eyes". Luckily there are no maps where your vision range is severely limited and ranged mechs with ECM have a huge advanztage. /sarcasm off

Sorry! Did you just state that ECM provides its carrier with better ranged vision than a non carrying ECM Mech? Obviously not right...? That would simply be utter BS...

If you can't see him/her and he shoots you, odds are he/she has installed yet another module that you yourself neglected to carry in order to increase your obsessive need for more Pew Pew or Dakka.

In that case, whether he\she has ECM mounted, or not, is MOOT...

See this is why PGI won't ever give us nice things...

[Pjwned]

Mystere, on 13 July 2015 - 10:47 AM, said:

Well, much of this game is still half-assed. But, I am still holding out for more such examples of asymmetric balance, not less. And I still want what little asymmetry there is to stay.

It doesn't add anything of value to half-ass such a concept by adding in 1 piece of absurdly unbalanced equipment though, and considering PGI's whole philosophy with clans I think that's pretty conclusive that asymmetric balance is not a goal for this game.

Quote

Hey! Hey! Hey! I was just giving an explanation on why some may be offended. Nothing more, nothing less.

I know that, I was referring entirely to the poster that started it.

Edited by Pjwned, 13 July 2015 - 10:59 AM.

[topgun505]

I like it. It allows lights to be somewhat steathly so they have a good chance of getting in behind the enemy lines unspotted.

It also helps keep the LRM-noobs from overrunning the underhive making life miserable there for the newer players. Basically teaches them a lesson (i.e. take countermeasures like Tag, etc ... or better yet ... make a balanced build and bring some backup weapons).

[Necromantion]

1) Like
2) Because every single player I see whining about it on the forums illustrates that they are incapable of playing games without a target lock or call-sign to be successful. What have you done in other games to designate targets or have you never played any other FPS games?

Oh you cant target lock and just fire and forget weapons to do the work for you? Boo hoo

Oh you cant communicate clearly with your team saying things like "Target atlas on the ridge to the left" rather than "Target A"? Sorry I dont sympathize at all.

[Weeny Machine]

Almond Brown, on 13 July 2015 - 10:54 AM, said:

Sorry! Did you just state that ECM provides its carrier with better ranged vision than a non carrying ECM Mech? Obviously not right...? That would simply be utter BS...

If you can't see him/her and he shoots you, odds are he/she has installed yet another module that you yourself neglected to carry in order to increase your obsessive need for more Pew Pew or Dakka.

In that case, whether he\she has ECM mounted, or not, is MOOT...

See this is why PGI won't ever give us nice things...

Yup, it is equally hard to see a mech with and without red square in a low-visibility map, especially at range. Yeah, so much BS..right?

Oh, and a sniper which is worth his salt doesn't shoot from the front but from the side or even back. Which means he will get 1-2 salvos, maybe even more, in. Which is quite an advantage with the current working hitreg and huge alphas. But hey, again so much BS, right?

One more thing: even if you are seen, just chane position and the hide-and-seek goes on. But again so much BS, right?

But hey, if you are seen that easily when you use ECM, shoot from the front, do not change position and play whack-a-mole...well, naaah, you are so pro you can't be blamed, right?

Edited by Bush Hopper, 13 July 2015 - 11:32 AM.

[ScreamingSkull]

Why the **** can't I lock onto a target I have tagged a close range. Makes zero sense. It's implemented poorly and overpowered.

[DONTOR]

I like it.

It lets me know who like's to whine on the forums.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

I don`t know what type of monitors you guys use, but I can`t see sh/it on half of the maps and I am caina forced to use heat vision, thought heat has limited range. So using ECM is enough of advantyge.
So not sure how fu/ck idiot one must be to argue "use your eyes".

ECM implementation is uber bull sh/it, folks that not agree with it are blind fan boys. That`s it. Every sane person know this. Even freaking PGI knows that their ECM is BS.

[Mystere]

Pjwned, on 13 July 2015 - 10:58 AM, said:

It doesn't add anything of value to half-ass such a concept by adding in 1 piece of absurdly unbalanced equipment though, and considering PGI's whole philosophy with clans I think that's pretty conclusive that asymmetric balance is not a goal for this game.

Actually, we would have a few now in addition to ECM, if not for large chunks of the population endlessly crying about them instead of allowing PGI to develop them further:

• jump jets
  
• poptarts (yes, I list them separately)
  
• weapon synergy (this too)
  
• weapon convergence, cone of fire, and other accuracy-related movement penalties
  
• consumables
  
• 3PV (gasp!!!)
  
• Clan vs. IS Formations

Instead, we are heading into the direction in which Clan Mechs and equipment are nothing more than reskinned IS versions that differ only in shape, color, and sound effects.

There is a reason we cannot have really nice things in this game.

Pjwned, on 13 July 2015 - 10:58 AM, said:

I know that, I was referring entirely to the poster that started it.

Apology accepted then.

[Necromantion]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 13 July 2015 - 11:27 AM, said:

I don`t know what type of monitors you guys use, but I can`t see sh/it on half of the maps and I am caina forced to use heat vision, thought heat has limited range. So using ECM is enough of advantyge.
So not sure how fu/ck idiot one must be to argue "use your eyes".

ECM implementation is uber bull sh/it, folks that not agree with it are blind fan boys. That`s it. Every sane person know this. Even freaking PGI knows that their ECM is BS.

Or players who dont struggle with video games?

[Mystere]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 13 July 2015 - 11:27 AM, said:

I don`t know what type of monitors you guys use, but I can`t see sh/it on half of the maps and I am caina forced to use heat vision, thought heat has limited range. So using ECM is enough of advantyge.
So not sure how fu/ck idiot one must be to argue "use your eyes".

I use a color-calibrated monitor that (obviously) does not use a cheap TN panel. I can also adjust color, contrast, and other settings independent of the game.

Jaeger Gonzo, on 13 July 2015 - 11:27 AM, said:

ECM implementation is uber bull sh/it, folks that not agree with it are blind fan boys. That`s it. Every sane person know this. Even freaking PGI knows that their ECM is BS.

If by "fan boys" you mean "TT purists", then you have never been more wrong.

[Pjwned]

Mystere, on 13 July 2015 - 11:31 AM, said:

Actually, we would have a few now in addition to ECM, if not for large chunks of the population endlessly crying about them instead of allowing PGI to develop them further:

• jump jets
  
• poptarts (yes, I list them separately)
  
• weapon synergy (this too)
  
• weapon convergence, cone of fire, and other accuracy-related movement penalties
  
• consumables
  
• 3PV (gasp!!!)
  
• Clan vs. IS Formations

I don't see what most of those have to do with asymmetric balance though, and players had no input on how clans vs. IS was handled. Additionally, PGI has had literally years to develop some of those things further, but they haven't so players demanded changes to things like pop-tarting because the game was sitting there languishing in a pool of crap until PGI finally did something about it after endless complaints.

Quote

Instead, we are heading into the direction in which Clan Mechs and equipment are nothing more than reskinned IS versions that differ only in shape, color, and sound effects.

There is a reason we cannot have really nice things in this game.

Except that clans and their equipment are still substantially different and the only real changes made were so that clan equipment would not be so grossly OP in every way because they were always meant to be relatively balanced in MWO.

Quote

Apology accepted then.

Well, I don't think I should have needed to clarify, but moving on.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Mystere, on 13 July 2015 - 11:37 AM, said:

I use a color-calibrated monitor that (obviously) does not use a cheap TN panel. I can also adjust color, contrast, and other settings independent of the game.




If by "fan boys" you mean "TT purists", then you have never been more wrong.

Yeah sure and you see all. Every damn player report same about this game. Visibility is low on most maps.


I mean PGI fan boys that eat everything with no question.
PGI release clearly OP clans, but PGI say is not P2W those are balanced, just "play different" crap, so fan boys keep repeating same BS as mantra. Even after freaking ridicule 50% quirks some still think clans are stronger, so look how it was on release?

Actually any table topper and any sane player with any experience in overall gaming know that ECM is uber sh/it, worst thing that PGI has invented up to date.
This game basically is just plain better without this piece of broken sh/it.

[Mystere]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 13 July 2015 - 02:08 PM, said:

Yeah sure and you see all. Every damn player report same about this game. Visibility is low on most maps.

I mean PGI fan boys that eat everything with no question.
PGI release clearly OP clans, but PGI say is not P2W those are balanced, just "play different" crap, so fan boys keep repeating same BS as mantra. Even after freaking ridicule 50% quirks some still think clans are stronger, so look how it was on release?

Actually any table topper and any sane player with any experience in overall gaming know that ECM is uber sh/it, worst thing that PGI has invented up to date.
This game basically is just plain better without this piece of broken sh/it.

By your very tone, it is obvious you were violated by a Clansman using ECM. Please show everyone where these vat-grown monsters did their deed.

Edited by Mystere, 13 July 2015 - 02:19 PM.

[Nightmare1]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 12 July 2015 - 08:19 PM, said:

LOL.
Hes for real?

Totally. I don't use it much, but I can definitely attest to how easy it is to take out and how ineffective it is. I only really see it make a difference in the pugging queues. Groups counter it way too easily. With BAP, TAG, NARC, UAVs, and focus fire, ECM in group matches is something of a joke.

To illustrate the point that ECM is underwhelming, I had a match where I killed nine Mechs, six of them Clanner. The match came down to me versus four Clan Mechs, one of them a healthy ECM Loki. I killed all four of them. All the ECM did was help the Loki hide at range, which wasn't too much of a bonus since I was able to pick him out visually a few times and could trace back his fire.

I really only see ECM as being effective against LRMs and SSRMs. Even then, there are so many counters that ECM just isn't much good inside 400 meters. The only ECM Mech I own that I could call a "strong" ECM Mech is my sniper Kit Fox with twin CERPPCs and ECM. I sit back at 800+ meters with the ECM shielding me and a neutral paint scheme to hide me from prying eyes, and light everyone up. That's about the only time that I see ECM working particularly effectively though.

[Lightfoot]

1. Dislike.

2. Too powerful.

3. BAP should counter it at 400 to 500 meters for the mech that carries it. Probably target info is not shared though.

[LordNothing]

i like electronic warfare aspects in the game, i just think that what we have is an oversimplified system that introduces problems that a proper implementation would not have. for definition of "proper implementation", go play MWLL.

[CtrlAltWheee]

1. Dislike.

2. Reason(s): Even if you scout the enemy, you can almost never call in lrms due to triple-redundant ecm coverage. Tag is not usable in this scenario because of its visibility.

3. How would you change it if you could: Let it cover only the mech it's on. Let the rest of the caravan bring ams and negate lrms that way.

Make the ecm guardian/angel whatever it is like people have said. An atlas has the weight to carry a larger ecm that can cover a small area. Smaller than it is now. The lights will carry the smaller ecm that covers only them and allows them to scout and designate targets effectively.

At this point, I'm open to a sort of MWO 2.0 with dramatically different mechanics. After CW I'd like them to give us a heads up before they invest heavily and we can do some iteration. I'm okay with rethinking ECM from scratch.